9mm case buckle lee autodrum

[ericuda]

Anyone have trouble like this using a lee autodrum powder measure and lee turret with powder thru die. The cases are getting folded over and buckled a bit. Happens once in awhile. Changed the square ratchet as it was old and lose and that helped a bit but not completely. Seems like the measure cants slightly when making contact with the cartridge and is not completely square. I checked turret indexing and it is fine. I used the autodisk with zero issues and cant understand that this is same die and press but different results.

 

[Tilos]

The auto drum has less over travel than the auto disc, and may need to adjusted up to keep it from bottoming out and crushing the case.
But because that pic shows that the case is crushed/turnned IN, you may not have enough case flare.
Here's a vid:

I've also cured this by adding a riser,
good luck,

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Looks more like an alignment issue to me as well. I am not a fan of their auto index and that square plastic piece. Somehow it seems more could have been done in the design. Guess we will have to see if they make some improvements somewhere down the road.

Try removing the rod and indexing buy hand for a while and see if it corrects the problem. Also make sure the case is not sliding off center of the shell holder. That can cause it for sure. If its misaligning you will find it.

 

[ericuda]

Same settings using both. It is definitely an alignment issue. This damage happens as the case first enters the die. I can work press slowly and guide case in the die carefully and no issues. I just dont get why the auto disk has zero issues no matter how i operate the press. I have some 45 to load and i'll see if I have the same issue.

 

[hollywood63]

I have the same issue loading 9mm it does it on my lee turret and pro 1000. I use a 38 S&W flaring plug and it cuts down on the frequency but one in 75-100 will do it. If 9mm reman ammo gets much cheaper I'll save myself the headache of loading it. In fact if it wasn't for my father inlaw having a 9 I probably would even mess with it. .......................well ok I would but not as often

 

[drband]

Looks like you might have the wrong shell holder installed. That would explain the alignment issue. Please let us know.

 

[Chuck59]

Yeah, there's something strange going on there. I've never even seen that problem..

 

[dgod]

I have had the same issue with 9, 45ACP, I determined mine was due to not having the cases flared. Went back, flared cases, No Problem...

 

[tcook90]

When I switched to the Auto Drum from the Auto Disk, I had to back out the powder thru die. The drum's much heavier spring was over expanding and deforming cases (never could get it adjusted for 223, so I just use the Disk measure for that). It seems there is a fine line between full rotation of the drum, and over expansion of the case.

In your pictures, it looks to me like the bullet is catching the case, causing the buckle/folding. Are you saying the cases are like that before you seat the bullet?

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Same settings using both. It is definitely an alignment issue. This damage happens as the case first enters the die. I can work press slowly and guide case in the die carefully and no issues. I just dont get why the auto disk has zero issues no matter how i operate the press. I have some 45 to load and i'll see if I have the same issue.

check the flare part (cant remember what its called ) in the die. May be something going on in there.

If it's the same die and guts the new measure shouldn't change anything when case comes in as far as alignment but something funky is going on in there. Hope you figure it out. right now I'm drawing blanks other than the apparent alignment issue.

 

[Tilos]

Same settings using both. It is definitely an alignment issue. This damage happens as the case first enters the die. I can work press slowly and guide case in the die carefully and no issues. I just dont get why the auto disk has zero issues no matter how i operate the press. I have some 45 to load and i'll see if I have the same issue.

The Auto Disc spring is much weaker than the Auto Drum spring, and may be partially pushing the expander up without entering the case.

What happens when you index by hand without the center rod and allow the detent ball to position the turret?
Did you notice the case buckle before you put the bullet in the case?
just askin'

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

\

The Auto Disc spring is much weaker than the Auto Drum spring, and may be partially pushing the expander up without entering the case.

The spring may very well be adding to the problem. Though the design might be another part? I have the Prodisk with the spring mod and its heavy. A god bit of tension yet no issues on My LM like his.

What happens when you index by hand without the center rod and allow the detent ball to position the turret?

I think he replied there was no issue here at least to the alignment :

I can work press slowly and guide case in the die carefully and no issues.

But I suggested the same as you. It seems the alignment issue exist. What is causing it is not. It may be some slop in the Auto-index. He did mention the replacement of the square plastic insert that wears out and prevents full index. Maybe it got misadjusted in the process too and causing the index to not fully seat in the detents.

 

[Tilos]

FYI...
I buffed/polished the twisted part of the index rod and have not needed to change the plastic insert since the buff.
I used a Dremmel/felt wheel and nu finish polish I have on hand for tumbling.
just sayin'

 

[Bartojc]

When I switched to the Auto Drum from the Auto Disk, I had to back out the powder thru die. The drum's much heavier spring was over expanding and deforming cases (never could get it adjusted for 223, so I just use the Disk measure for that). It seems there is a fine line between full rotation of the drum, and over expansion of the case.

Any time I have had issues with either lee powder drop, disk or drum, it was because I needed to back the powder through die out. Someone above said it, and I noticed too, that the drum needs to be backed out quite a bit more than the disk. I crushed a number of 9mm cases before I figured it all out. It's very easy to crush a case if you bottom out the case against the powder through die.

-Jeff

 

[ericuda]

Then case has a noticable fold before seating the bullet, the bullet seating just makes it worse and more obvious. I think you guys are right, I am going to back off the die a bit and see if that changes anything. I just figured that since i had the flare i liked with the disk measure I wouldnt need to readjust for the drum.

 

[grogetr]

I have the same setup and haven't had any problems yet. There is a slot at the bottom of the measure on the side that you need to make sure the tab that slides in it is not bottoming out. If that was bent from the powder throw why did you go ahead and put a bullet in it?

 

[drband]

I just figured that since i had the flare i liked with the disk measure I wouldnt need to readjust for the drum.

I'm really interested to see how this works out. When I switched from the ProAutoDisc I simply unscrewed the old PM and installed the new ProAutoDrum into the riser. I did not have belling/flare issues or case crushing. It seems that my experience may not be the norm. Please let us know what solves the issue for you.

 

[jwalts27]

I'm really interested to see how this works out. When I switched from the ProAutoDisc I simply unscrewed the old PM and installed the new ProAutoDrum into the riser. I did not have belling/flare issues or case crushing. It seems that my experience may not be the norm. Please let us know what solves the issue for you.

Im with you, I literally installed it in 2 minutes with ZERO adjustments.

 

[drband]

Im with you, I literally installed it in 2 minutes with ZERO adjustments.

That was my experience.

 

[Reefinmike]

I wouldn't think this issue would have anything to do with the auto drum and how powerful the spring is. The cases would simply be flared more, not torn if the die was set too deep. Your brass not centered with your die and is catching either the mouth of the die or expander plug.

Check to see if there is junk in the shellholder preventing the case from being pushed all the way back. I commonly find walnut media back in the groove of mine that prevents the brass from centering. Also check for any junk where the shellholder and ram connect.

Your ram or press could be at a slight angle. it seems my brass leans slightly towards me.

You could also just be going too fast and too heavy handed. little cases like 9mm and 380 like to wiggle around a lot in the shellholder. Folding cases like you are doing used to be commonplace when I would load 380 until I learned to just hold my thumb on the case as it enters the die. Dont go so fast! You should be able to easily feel the brass catch before you start causing damage like that.

Also check that your die is centered in it's threads by screwing down the lock nut after you send a piece of brass up in the die to be expanded.

Out of habit I keep my thumb on the brass as its raised in the die. Haven't folded a piece of brass in many years.

 

[drband]

Out of habit I keep my thumb on the brass as its raised in the die.

Same here.
I also noted a tendency for my shellholders to rotate during use--more aggravating than anything. I chose to dremel a tiny notch in the shellholder side where the end of the retaining spring rests. End of issue.

 

[ericuda]

i will try going slower and try to get a video. The thing is I am loading by changing absolutely nothing except the powder measure and no case has ever buckled with the autodisk. I am north of 5,000 rounds of 9 with the disk but wanted a charge the disk couldnt provide (4.3 titegroup) so i tried drum.

 

[Tilos]

Then case has a noticeable fold before seating the bullet, the bullet seating just makes it worse and more obvious. I think you guys are right, I am going to back off the die a bit and see if that changes anything. I just figured that since i had the flare i liked with the disk measure I wouldnt need to readjust for the drum.

When you use a riser as I suggested, the travel of the expander plug is limited when it hits the bottom of the riser internally, so the auto drum does not top out
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00162LR6W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I bought that riser to use on a Pro 1000 I'm setting up for 45ACP, and have them stacked 2 and 3 high on other presses so the powder measure clears the other dies
Last night I adjusted the expander/powder drop, with that riser installed...and NO powder measure.
Stacked Risers
In this pic of another press you can see 2 risers stacked and a different way to setup the return spring, as I hate the wrap around spring because it's hard to unhook:

just sayin'

 

[Tilos]

i will try going slower and try to get a video. The thing is I am loading by changing absolutely nothing except the powder measure and no case has ever buckled with the autodisk. I am north of 5,000 rounds of 9 with the disk but wanted a charge the disk couldnt provide (4.3 titegroup) so i tried drum.

Have you considered the Lee Adjustable Charge Bar for the Auto Disc?
http://www.titanreloading.com/powder-handling-equipment/lee-adjustable-charge-bar-

Works for me,

 

[wild willy]

My 32/20 powder thru did the same thing.When I checked the bottom of the expander against a sized case it was only slightly smaller then the case mouth.I tapered and polished the outside bottom of the expander.Stopped my problem.Doesn't explain why yours does it with auto-drum and not the disc.