9mm for carry/training/competition

[Newguy1]

9mm questions…

I have long been a .45 ACP fan, but I have recently been bitten by the 9mm bug (plus I can get 9mm ammo pretty cheap.) I want a thin 9mm carry gun. I used to have a Sig P228 and I sold it (in the early 90's) because it was way too thick to carry comfortably. I switched to a prancing pony, which I really like, but it is pretty expensive to feed for games/training.

The 9mm platforms that I have been looking at include:

STI BLS – I like that this is super slim, based on the 1911, and a single stack… but I don’t like the fact that it doesn’t have a slide lock.

Khar T9 with Novack Sights – pretty slim and a single stack… but it is a DAO and uses polygonal rifling. Doesn’t that make cast bullets problematic?

CZ 75 Compact – Seems to be a pretty good gun. I like the fact that I can carry it Cocked and Locked… don’t like the fact that is a double stack, but this platform seems to have the most going for it.

The last two should be pretty easy to get holsters for. I am not too sure about the STI.

Anyone have any of these guns? I am going to use it as a CCW and as an IDPA gun. Can they shoot cast bullets?

 

[Gunsnrovers]

For a carry 9mm, my top three would be:

BHP/FN HP
9mm 1911
Sig 225

The best part is that FN HP's are still in the $400 range while they last.

I have no idea on IDPA rules so I can't comment there at all.

 

[Newguy1]

Thanks for the input. I liked shooting my Sig, but it was just too thick for comfortable carry. I carried it in an ARG from Mitch Rosen, and it was uncomfortable to sit down in. I went to a Sig P230, which was a lot thinner, but I just didn't like the 9mm Kurtz (.380).

 

[armoredman]

CZ 75. Best value yet. Pick one up, and just feel the ergonomics, too. The Compact rides very well concealed, even with 14 round mags. I carry the PO1(same size, but alloy frame, decocker, M3 rail), concealed every day, no problem.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

The 225 is a single stack (thinner) version of your 228. It's a 9mm, not .380.

 

[Gary G23]

My favorite 9's are the CZ-75 and the SA XD-9. I use them for carry and IDPA competition.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

The CZ, being double-stack, is going to be as wide as your old Sig. The same is true of the FN-HP. 9mm 1911s are nice, but if you have magazine feed problems, they're not so easily solved with an aftermarket magazine, as they can be with a .45 ACP magazine. Sounds to me like the perfect gun for you might be a Smith 952. If that is a bit pricey, or if you want something more compact for CCW, you might want to consider one of the other Smith single-stacks, like the 3913.

 

[The Drew]

If you want a good, inexpensive all around gun then go with the CZ 75 compact. If double stack is really a concern then you may need to consider the kahr, however this wouldn't be the best for IDPA as you'd be giving up capacity.

The Kahr would be good for BUG in IDPA but not necessarily SSP

I shoot IDPA with a CZ P01 in SSP, a springfield XD 40 in ESP and a bersa thunder .380 for BUG

Any time you want a gun to fit multiple roles you're going to have to compromise. If you want one gun to do it all I say get one of the CZ compacts. BTW the CZ p01 is slightly more concealable for me than my XD 40 due to grip length.

 

[Newguy1]

I have been doing some searching, and on the CZ-USA webpage they list the maximum capicicity for the CZ75 Compact as 10 rounds... is that just an old page left over form the AWB? Because 11 rounds of the CZ vs 9 from the Kahr is that big of a deal.

How long has the T9-Novack Kahr been out?

I shot a CZ at the range the other day and I really liked it, but the Kahr T9-N is really interesting to me.

The MSRP for the Kahr is listed as ~$820, anyone know what the actual street price is?

The MSRP for the CZ75 Compact is listed as ~$540, anyone know what the actual street price is?

 

[DMF]

Well if you don't like the 228 due to grip size, maybe the single stack 225 will work better for you.

If a thick grip is a problem all of the double stacks may give you problems.

Normally I'd suggest:

Sig 228, 226, 225
Glock 17/19
FN or Browning Hi-Power

The problem is all but the 225 are double stacks.

I suppose you could look into a 9mm 1911.

 

[Krag]

I'd go with the Kahr. I don't shoot IDPA so it wouldn't matter if it is "legal" for any of their strange divisions. But was a carry gun it is probably one of the best - and safest - 9mm's on today's market.

 

[mattk]

Kimber makes their Pro Carry in 9mm now. That would give you the same controls as your colt.

 

[Newguy1]

Mattk,

I went to the Kimber Webpage and they only list the ProCarry as coming in 38 Super. Do you have a link for the 9mm?

DMF,

Sig does not list the P225 on their webpage... is it still in production?

I am leaning more and more towards the Kahr.

Here is a picture I lifted from Kahr's Webpage

 

[Pilot]

I've been carrying a Sig P228 and a CZ-75D "PCR" (compact alloy frame, no light rail). The CZ is a bit thiner, lighter and smaller, that the P228. It is easier to carry and conceal. If you want to go even thiner and give up some capacity, the HK P7 series is a good choice. I prefer the P7 PSP for carry due to the heal mag release.

 

[wally]

You are doing good to find a new Kahr for under $550.

CZ75 should still be under $400 (paid $360 out the door for mine in blue finish) although prices seem to be creeping up as the word gets out about just how good these guns are.

The CZ75 is 16+1 capacity by design. CDNN has full capacity factory mags for $20. IMHO the CZ75 is too big to carry althouh there is a "compact" model availble.

As long as you are looking at CZ check out the 10+1 CZ Rami, although for CCW Kahr is hard to beat beyond the price. RAMI should be under $450 with two mags.

--wally.

 

[bubbygator]

If you haven't done so yet, wrap your hand around a High-Power; you may not feel that it is too big for your hand. I feel that a used HP is better than a new "other".

 

[mattk]

OOPS its the Tactical Pro thats out in 9mm. Its pretty much a fancy Pro Carry.
I have one. Great gun.

 

[Sean Smith]

Since you want this for a competition gun, read up on the rules of the competition and get a gun that fits them. Lots of people buy a gun, only to find that it is either illegal, or wholly unsuited, for the shooting sport they wanted to participate in.

 

[wally]

Yes CCW and game gun are likely to be mutually exclusive. I think you'll need two guns if you are serious about CCW and games.

--wally.

 

[The Drew]

The CZ 75 compact variants are 14+1 with short mags or 16+1 with standard cz 75 mags (which can be modified to fit flush with the proper base plate) I believe the new SP01 holds 18+1 and those mags should work as well...

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The larger CZ mags fit flush in the compact guns -- they just use a spacer to make them look like they do. They're still about 3/4 (or more) of an inch longer than the ones that fit flush with the grip.

The factory mags for the "compact" CZs in 9mm are 14 rounders ($30), and you can pick up Pro-Mags for range use that are just about as good, for under $15.00. (A bunch of us on the CZ Forum use the Promags for these guns, when we don't like them for other guns. They work well.)

I prefer the CZ-75 compact, because its not a decocker -- but its noticeably heavier than the CZ-75 PCR (which has an alloy frame) and is the same size.

I carried my 75 Compact for a year or two, when I carried, but now carry a Kahr P9. Much smaller and lighter, and less noticeable (to the observer and the person doing the carrying.)

The CZ Compact would NOT put you at a disadvantage in IDPA, and you'd be able to shoot in two divisions. The P9, because of its capacity, is at a bit of disadvantage. (The biggest mags I've seen are 8 rounders, which is what I use.)

 

[callgood]

I haven't made a complete list, but I am considering casting bullets for my HP. I have a good deal of lead left over from my duck decoy projects, think it is 2% antimony, should get cost per bullet under a nickle.

 

[Babalouie]

Well, I'm gonna suggest something for ccw that will probably be cut down pretty quick... I've decided that I'm going with a Taurus Millennium PRO (its got to be the "Pro" series which has a much better trigger) Pt-140 (.40S&W, the Pt-111 is a 9mm) for ccw. I was about sold on a Kahr then held the Millennium Pro and, man, what a great feeling firearm. Its really small, compared to a 1911 or XD-40 (both of which I've carried), and I wanted a longer DA pull on a ccw weapon. I don't know if I would use it for IDPA...I agree that game shooting and real life carry are two different things. And the price?...about half of that of a Kahr. Those that actually have and shoot the Millennium Pro are real fans and report good things. The earlier model Millenniums had a fairly nasty trigger. They come in 9, 40 and 45. The Pt-111Ti is an awesome 9mm titanium model that really is a neat little carry peice that really should be looked at. So, there's my two cents worth.

 

[wally]

I think the Millenium's are a very good CCW for the price, only real disadvantage is they a significantly thicker than the single stack Kahr. If the thickness doesn't cause problems (and its nowhere near as fat as the Beretta 9000S) you save money and get 12+1 capacity in 9mm.

--wally.

 

[medmo]

Double stack ccw 9mm? Check out the S&W 6906 (12+ 1). KY Imports still has some trade-ins cheap. If the double stack frame is too large then you might want to think S&W 3913.