• You are using the old Black Responsive theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

9mm Heavy vs. light & fast

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bullseye25

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
75
This isn't a caliber war convo about stopping power or penetration. I'm looking for a target load in a long n heavy slide .40 converted to 9mm. Most rounds make the slide cycle way too slowly. 147 lead TCFN have given me the best results but still doesn't cycle as fast as I'd like. I've already have the lowest power spring possible on on the guide rod. So my main question is, will a lighter faster round give me better cycling than the 147 grains. Like a hot 124 gr maybe? I'm only asking because I'm about to place an order for 9mm projectiles with RMR and want to see if it will be worth trying that option or if 147 gr is the best it will get for that set up.
 
Have you tried different powders? Faster vs slower or are you using factory ammo?
 
I usually use unique for 9mm. I've tried as fast as W231 and as slow as AA#5. Didn't see much difference. Tried it because I was doing research online and seemed like a faster powder might help. I always shoot lead. So was thinking maybe a faster moving, lighter plated or fmj would cycle harder. Reason I'm concerned with the cycle speeds is because I was getting a few FTEs.
 
I would think a 124g FMJ moving out at 1100-1200 fps should do it with safe pressures. I have a Unique load with 124g FMJs doing 1050 that is just a medium practice load. This is out of a 4.4" barrel P226.
 
I agree with the last post. 124\125 grain with your unique powder. Kind of a crap shoot really.
I would just stick to lead. I doubt you will see a noticeable difference in cycle between the lead and fmj.
 
4.2 grain Unique with a 124/125 gr hard cast lead bullet has always worked very well for me, I've gone as high a 4.7 gr.

But I'm loving 147 gr Missouri cast bullets with 3.7 gr Unique loaded short enough to fit my tightest mags (which if I remember correctly was my Glock 17 mags).
 
I usually do stick to lead for economy. The only pistol I have to shoot 9mm out of is a 6 inch barrel glock 24 .40sw. I have a lone wolf conversion barrel and an 11lb recoil spring I use to shoot 9mm out of it. It's a tack driver With both .40 and the weak cycling 9mm. the slide is too long and heavy to cycle well with the 9mm. 147 lead loads have cycled the most reliably for me but it still cycles slow. Looking for a load that will at least cycle normally And provide 100% reliability. The 147 leas tcfn cycle probably 95% reliably. Just shooting for perfection. Just ordered some thick plated 124 gr flat nose from rmr. I'll test them soon and report back.
 
Powders are a major game changer, more so than projectile weight. What powders are you using?

I obtain 100% reliability with everything from 90 gr. XTP's up to the 147's through any of my firearms, full sized XD's and 92's, stock springs, doesn't really matter, they all cycle 100%, all the time. Longshot has been the winning ticket for me.

1050 - 1100 fps with 147's, all the way up to 1400 fps with the 90's.

GS
 
I wouldnt place to large of an order until you're sure (unless the consensus here is that it doesnt matter much)..i learned that one the hard way.
 
The loads I've made have cycled 9mm pistols 100% reliably. The pistol in question is a long slide .40 glock. the stock barrel is 6 inches long and the slide is just a tad heavy for a 9mm to cycle it like it would on a regular 9mm pistol. The cycling is at best, slow but reliable. That slow motion has an entirely different feel and I'm not a fan. Feels like if it will stove pipe at any time even when it doesnt. I've been able to over come The fte with 147 lead load on unique or aa#5. I plan on loading the 124 gr heavy plated over a stout load of power pistol to see If I can feel a difference with the fast moving 124 gr pill.
 
I am with gamestalker on this one, longshot has been my powder of choice for a long time. I do not have a 9mm longslide but I do have a 40S&W longslide and have never had any cycling issues using longshot. I think it would be worth a try, Hodgdon`s load data shows 1000fps using the max charge of longshot with 147 grain projectiles. I have gotten higher than shown velocities out of longshot in my 40S&W and feel like this is due to the slower powder and the longer barrel.
 
im always in favor of the slower powders, in 9mm anyway. Build that pressure and build that pressure then "THUMP", a nice strong (but not violent) push. I love it.
 
Bullseye25 said:
long slide .40 glock ... barrel is 6 inches ... lone wolf conversion barrel and an 11lb recoil spring ... slide is just a tad heavy for a 9mm to cycle it like it would on a regular 9mm pistol. The cycling is at best, slow but reliable.
I have G22/23/27 and use KKM/Lone Wolf conversion barrels. Although I use factory recoil springs, powders with burn rate ranging from fast Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo/WST/Clays to relatively slower BE-86/WSF/AutoComp have worked well to cycle the slides from start charges depending on the bullet weight and powder.
147 lead TCFN have given me the best results but still doesn't cycle as fast as I'd like ... question is, will a lighter faster round give me better cycling than the 147 grains ... plan on loading the 124 gr heavy plated over a stout load of power pistol to see If I can feel a difference with the fast moving 124 gr pill.
With 147 gr lead bullet, even lighter start charges have reliably cycled the G22 slide with fast burn rate powders like Bullseye/Promo/Titegroup/W231/HP-38 - www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=748940

With 124 gr lead/plated bullet, I usually need mid range and higher powder charges to reliably cycle the slide and have not experienced much cycling issues with high+ range loads with slower burn rate powders. I consider Power Pistol to be relatively "mid range burn rate" powder and 124 gr thick plated bullet and stout load of Power Pistol should work well to cycle the long slide, especially with lighter recoil spring. If slide cycles well with 124 gr/Power Pistol loads, perhaps consider using factory recoil spring?
 
Last edited:
For a long slide, this is a job for Blue Dot! I'm shooting a 439 SW with 120gr cast conical SWC bullets over 8.0gr Blue Dot for an average of 1355fps. I'm shooting 6" 8 shot groups at 75ft offhand. They work great in other guns with a stiffer actions.

On a side note, I'm baffled by the recent fascination with 147 gr bullets for 9mm. 30 years ago, nobody even listed load data for them. 115 was pretty common and standard, with 124-125 considered the heavy bullet. The desire for "subsonic" loads for non-suppressed guns is a mystery. Having said that, Blue Dot will also work very with heavier bullets. It's slow burning, and will maintain peak pressure for a longer duty cycle, yet will burn very clean and consistent in tight spaces like a 9mm cartridge.
 
Since this is your ONLY 9mm handgun, you may be able to slowly work up beyond max data, particularly with those specific cast bullet loads that are well below 35K psi at the max book charge. Just beware of shooting same reloads in a "lesser" pistol.

Take calipers and measure the web of your fired cases. If your cases start to bulge too much, you have run out of room to play. Unless you want your brass to be one-time-use, only. (Bulge busting shouldn't be done, regularly. If your load is bulging brass that bad, you are best off tossing the brass. And it doesn't work too well with the tapered 9mm cases, although it can supposedly be done with the Lee 9mm makarov FCD.)

Your gun is optimized for a higher recoilling round. Since you are a handloader, you can give your gun what it wants. Just keep an eye on brass/pressure. Load 'em as long as can fit. Choose bullet and powder, wisely. In all likelihood, you can work up a cast bullet load that doesn't even exceed max pressure, but which will cycle your gun with plenty of authority - but which could cause excessive recoil and failure-to-extract malfunctions in regular 9mm's. Recoil/cycling speed is the reason max load data (particularly with cast bullets) is often capped well below max SAAMI pressure; your gun has more mass than the stock 40SW configuration, even, considering the conversion barrel is heavier than the stock 40 barrel. In other words, if you have any interest in working up a 9mm major load, you have a pretty good platform in your hands.

If this doesn't make 100% complete sense to you, and you're not 100% comfortable with the implications, chalk it up as bad and dangerous advice. Disregard and stick to the books. But if you want a round that cycles your specific gun faster than stock ammo, you do not necessarily need higher than normal pressure. But you do need higher bullet momentum than normal book loads.
 
Last edited:
Solid advice. Much appreciated. From what I'm gathering it would be smart to do work ups with my faster powders like unique and 231 and also my slower powders like Power Pistol and HS-6. HS-6 is the slowest pistol powder I have and is my go-to for .40 loads. Followed by AA#5. I will try the near max or max charges with my slower powders to stay safer on pressure spikes. But I will push the mid range loads of the faster powders to feel the difference. Ordering a chrony soon, so this will be a perfect first experiment scenario for it. I will make sure to report back on the thread to give it resolution for future searchers with the same issue.

PS. I'm also ordering a conversion barrel for my G23. But on that platform, I'm sure it will cycle very similarly to a G19. Especially if I swap to the G19 recoil spring. But the long G24 is a tack driver and I'd like to shoot more through there for fun.
 
Slower powders. PP, Long Shot, HS 6. The inertia of driving the the slide back can be duplicated using either a heavy bullet or a light one. You state you have alight recoil spring so it's a matter of build up the load (within safe data)

If you find the point that a light bullet equals that of a heavy one then the gun will not know. You can guesstimate by looking at load data in the manual or use one of the online ballistic calculators.

Something like this. There are others

http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp
 
Like TimSr, I've had 100% cycling with Blue Dot as well.

It's comes down to finding the right powder, charge, and bullet combination. Generally speaking, mid to slow powders are best suited for long slow actions and heavy bullets. I think the most difficult actions to feed have been my G17 I bought back in the late 80's, the 92fs, and an XD. But even so, I just used either Longshot, HS6, or Blue Dot, all 3 have delivered 100% reliable function in any AL-ing firearm I've ever loaded for. But there are quite a few other good slow burner's out there that should work very well for you. A mid to slow burning AA powder is also a good direction to go in.

GS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top