9mm Major - Eley and Everglades loads comparison

[LiveLife]

With more and more ammunition manufacturers producing "9mm Major" rounds, could a new trend start with gun manufacturers producing "9mm Major" rated pistols?

When I switched USPSA match caliber from 9mm/45ACP to 40S&W using Glock 22, consideration was given to 40-9mm conversion barrel with thicker chamber/barrel wall to shoot 9mm Major loads. While I never got to compete with 9mm Major, my interest in 9mm Major continued as higher velocity loading nearing .357 Magnum velocities may have defensive round potentials similar in velocities I am getting from 16" 9mm carbines.

This Shooting Sports USA article compares latest 9mm Major offerings from Eley and Everglades Ammo and I thought it would be interesting to compared the specs -
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/7/19/9mm-major-loads-for-action-shooting/

(BTW, Eley uses RMR jacketed bullets for their centerfire match ammunition)

• Eley 124 gr FMJ 1.160" OAL - 1397, 1399, 1394, 1393, 1390 fps - 172.9 PF
• Everglades 124 gr JHP 1.141" OAL - 1364, 1338, 1359, 1366, 1361 fps - 168.3 PF
• Everglades 147 gr JHP 1.147" OAL - 1145, 1142, 1146, 1160, 1146 fps - 168.7 PF

Maybe I should make 9mm Major load development one of my retirement projects for Glock 22/40-9 conversion barrels?

 

[jmorris]

It’s the same case, 9x19, so your just 9mm, +p or +P+.

How about 177pf out of a 4” barrel?

 

[243winxb]

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/7/17/review-bul-armory-sas-ii-ur-9mm

May need a $3,299 gun, to go with that hot ammo?

9mm Luger +P. PROOF LOADS average 55,500 PSI.

 

[LiveLife]

It’s the same case, 9x19, so your just 9mm, +p or +P+

Yes, essentially "9mm Major" is similar to +P+ but many match shooters have tamed the stinging recoil impulse of Hirtenberger +P+ rounds I have shot to more manageable "hard push".

With John Wick movie and Taran Tactical selling "9mm Major" 2011, popularity of "9mm Major" may gain traction.

I could imagine gun manufacturers considering taking advantage of "9mm Major" if popularity and interest in the loading grows and slapping "9mm Major" label on some of their guns as marketing incentives.

 

[LiveLife]

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2020/7/17/review-bul-armory-sas-ii-ur-9mm

May need a $3,299 gun, to go with that hot ammo? View attachment 1036166

How about 40-9mm conversion barrel and recoil spring swap for my Glock 22?

Some pistols may just require recoil spring swap.

 

[Charlie98]

I would think the manufacturers would have to alter (lengthen) the standard 9mm case to keep '9mm Magnum' rounds out of older, or less robust 9mm pistols. Marking the boxes as '9mm Magnum' would not be enough in today's marketplace.

 

[1KPerDay]

I foresee a lot of blown up 9mm guns. The guys I know that load major are particular about brass primarily. Either they only use new brass or they sort meticulously and roll size. They say the Major can blow out the base of the cases to the point that standard sizing dies don’t remedy it.

interested to see your results, though I don’t have any use for a 9mm Major at this time.

 

[1KPerDay]

I would think the manufacturers would have to alter (lengthen) the standard 9mm case to keep '9mm Magnum' rounds out of older, or less robust 9mm pistols. Marking the boxes as '9mm Magnum' would not be enough in today's marketplace.

What about .45 Super? Or “Ruger only” magnum loads from various manufacturers?

 

[fxvr5]

I would think the manufacturers would have to alter (lengthen) the standard 9mm case to keep '9mm Magnum' rounds out of older, or less robust 9mm pistols.

Then you end up with 356 TSW.

https://gunsmagazine.com/discover/the-356-tsw/

 

[Hartkopf]

Buffalo Bore 147gr +p+ says they are getting 1165fps out of a G19 (171pf) I shot some of it out of a stock G17 and it was not bad at all. It was actually less snappy than 124gr +p Gold Dots.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Could "9mm Major" become mainstream as "9mm Magnum"?

I honestly hadn't heard about "9mm Major" until I read this thread. So I did a bit of google-fu on the subject.

The answer to your question is "no".

This is because the 9mm Major round is nothing more than a wildcat 9mm Luger round loaded WAY hot. As in +P+ with no upper limit at all.

That would require heavier guns to safely fire it, which is find in competition shooting sports for which the loading (not "cartridge") was developed.

"Major power factor in USPSA competition, requires a 165 power factor. A 115 grain bullet must reach 1,435 fps, a 124 grain bullet must reach 1,331 fps, and a 147 grain bullet must reach 1,123 fps. Run-of-the-mill factory 9mm Luger ammunition does not usually achieve these speeds."

This is not a +P or +P+ loading. And that, in itself, should set off serious warning alarms, if for no other reason than the fact that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between any 9mm Lugar round and the 9mm Major round. Either will load and fire in any 9 x 19 mm gun.

This is not a case of the difference between, say, a .38 and a .357 round. You can load .38 into a .357 revolver, but you cannot load a .357 into a .38 revolver. Same bullet...physically different cartridge.

THAT SAID...if you WANT to build a race gun capable of handingling the 9mm Major, have at it. But it's never likely to take off in this already heavily saturated firearms/cartridge market. At best, it'll be a niche round.

https://americanhandgunner.com/discover/whats-9-major/

 

[Charlie98]

What about .45 Super? Or “Ruger only” magnum loads from various manufacturers?

Those are not mainstream factory cartridges, by and large. Truthfully, I don't know if I've ever seen a box of .45 Super on a store shelf, nor a box of ammos labeled 'Ruger Only.' I have seen specialty ammo, like Buffalo Bore, and, of course, +P and +P+, so you are correct there. I just think it's a bad idea.

 

[Charlie98]

Then you end up with 356 TSW.

Well... I've never heard of the .356TSW... but it sounds like the idea of a '9mm Magnum' is already upon us, and that is not forgetting the ill-fated 9mm Winchester Magnum of the '80's...

 

[fxvr5]

The term 9mm Magnum was applied to Jeff Cooper's "Super Cooper", also called the Super Nine, in the December 1973 Guns and Ammo. Its performance far exceeded 9 Major. It pushed a 125 grain bullet to near 1750 fps from a 6.5" barrel. The chamber was cut for 38 Super. Cooper used cut down .223 brass. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

If a potential investor or firearms engineer/designer thinks there may be a market for a "beefed-up" 9mm scroll-marked "9mm Major" then they absolutely SHOULD setup shop and start making them. Let the market decide if it's a flop or fabulous.

Personally, I'd be more likely to look at a handgun based on the CZ 100 scroll marked, "9mm Kusanagi" or "Motoko 9" but, that's me.

 

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - LiveLife's Retirement Project sure looks likes phun! Just don't blow yer head off....

 

[mcb]

I always have mixed feelings on these overpressure cartridges that still fit in older chambers. Whether it be 9mm Major, 45 Super, Ruger only 45 Colt, Modern 38 Short Colt loaded to nearly 357 Mag pressures etc. On one hand I have shot heaps of 9mm Major and 38 Short Colt loaded to pressures that would damage guns originally designed for those cartridges. On the other hand is always seems like a bad idea to create a cartridge that will fit in a gun that can't handle it.

 

[Hartkopf]

I just chronoed 6 rounds of BuffaloBore 147gr +p+ out of an old stock G17 gen4. They averaged 1154fps. The slowest round was 1138 which is just over 165pf.

ETA: The gun and ammo were both stone cold, probably 60dgs.

 

[WrongHanded]

There already is a "9mm Magnum", it runs in a G22 with a simple conversion barrel, the same RSA and magazines.

It's called .357 Sig. It'll do what you want, and do it without any issue. Just sayin'.

 

[fxvr5]

9 Major load data already exits.

Check out the Brian Enos forum 9mm/38 page. There is load data from actual 9 Major shooters. https://forums.brianenos.com/forum/72-9mm38-caliber/

And: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/how-to-use-9-major-in-a-short-barrel/

 

[jmorris]

9x23 would be a 9mm “magnum”.

For 9x19, the operating pressure is up to 35,000, 38,500 for +P and all the way to kaboom for +P+ (Just means above 38,500).

“Major” 9mm doesn’t really mean anything as far as pressure goes. It just means the bullet weight in grains X the velocity in FPS = 165,000 or more. You can do that with fast powders or slow powders with different amounts of pressure.

Like the “book” load I posted earlier, supposed to be “Major” power factor and not even noted as +P pressures.

 

[jmorris]

Worth noting, I only load 9mm to Major PF for my Open pistols where it’s advantageous, competitively, vs other stuff I have.

Long ago, I would work up loads for say 357 magnum to almost 41 magnum levels of power, these days I take a 44 magnum and down load it instead…

 

[lordpaxman]

9x23 would be a 9mm “magnum”.

Does that make .380 a minor now?
You 9mm major people are making it hard for us brass chickens that only want 9mm brass for non-major loads. There’s no good way to tell if that 9mm case had been used for major, or if it had, is it ok for minor still? I’m going to propose Appendix D1 line 4 be changed to 10mm.

 

[jmorris]

Does that make .380 a minor now?

380 doesn’t make minor 125(,000) powerfactor.

This may help.

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/1/27/understanding-the-power-factor

FWIW a regular “minor” load ran through some of our SMG’s moves the case more than my 9mm major loads out of my open pistols. So you are right about not being able to tell by looking.

 

[lordpaxman]

380 doesn’t make minor 125(,000) powerfactor.

Quite. But it was tongue in cheek - we have 9x19, 9x23 is magnum then 9x17 is a minor.