9mm +P+?

[Riomouse911]

If I remember correctly, shortly after I bought my Springfield .45 Super V-16 a shop called Ace Custom .45's in Texas got a registered trademark on the ".45 Super" name. A lot of manufacturers wouldn't pay the royalties to Ace Custom .45's to use the ".45 Super" caliber name or SAAMI specs for new guns and the cartridge really sort of died out as a result. Buried on my shelf I still have some old Triton .45 Super ammo that I bought from Sportsman's Guide when they got rid of it after the trademark issue, and I believe I have some other factory stuff from somewhere else. Once Ace put the clamps on the .45 Super name the only place I see headstamped .45 Super cases was from Starline.

I don't think that's why there is a +P+ headstamp on your .45 ammo, though. (If it is stamped that way, I may be confused on the above post and it's only the 9mm that's +P+. I haven't ever seen/heard of +P+ .45 ACP ammo.) The 9mm +P+ ammo I have is headstamped "WCC" with two digits for the last two digits of the year of manufacture (So "WCC 16" would be made in 2016, etc.)

My experience with Winchester 9mm +P+ is that it is a specific ammunition performance standard sought by a large-quantity buyer (In this case my local 2,000+ sworn Sheriff's office), and this standard will often exceed the SAAMI pressure limits of +P ammo. I was told by an armorer there that their office has gone away from the +P+ during the past year or two because manufacturer warranties on guns weren't being honored with +P+ use, so they're now issuing the 124 gr +P Ranger SXT load for 9mm. They haven't had a reported drop-off in critical-incident performance that the armorers could recall.

I have a lot of swap-out Winchester SXT +P+ loads on my shelf, every year I would get at least two boxes to replace the duty loads in my duty Glocks. I've kept the swapped-out ammo boxed up as spare ammo/carbine fodder. It shoots really well out of the Ruger PC9.

(I found this after I wrote the above, it's pretty much the same story on the .45 Super and Ace Custom that I wrote about http://www.45super.com/ )

Stay safe.

 

[brutus51]

When you guys give up on the 9 punybellums you can shoot all the +P+ you want, only they call it 38 Super.

 

[barnetmill]

When you guys give up on the 9 punybellums you can shoot all the +P+ you want, only they call it 38 Super.

.38 ACP, so call .38 super, and actual .38 super.
There are a lot of pistols out there that can chamber the .38 automatic that include spanish pistols chambered for the 9mm largo. for the 9mm largo round at times a modest adjustment needs to be make to the breech so that the semi-rim of the .38 automatic will chamber. Some of these like the astra 400 are not locked breech and rely on blow back for dealing with pressures.
There was a time not that long ago when some .38 super was not loaded to its full potential. And think it was because o these concerns. Not necessarily true any longer and the IPSC people have been loading it hot in ramped pistol way up to make major.
G19, their magazines, are every were at a reasonable price. I see that .38 super +P has come down in price, but does not offer that much of an advantage over +P+ 9X19. When glocks and their magazines are made for .38 super, I will maybe change my mind.

 

[shoobe01]

Since we're getting on to that track, this is what I have eventually found out about the whole .38/9/super/etc. confusion, because older Star (and other Spanish) pistols, at least, are marked in ways that encourage you to blow yourself up these days.

Ammunition for Older Firearms
Most importantly, use the correct ammunition. A number of these weapons can chamber and fire ammunition that they were not designed for. In some cases this can be extremely dangerous. In many cases, the original cartridge is no longer made, or no longer available in the original loading.

If you reload, keep in mind the age of your gun and don't exceed the original specifications. Remember the age of your firearm.

Older weapons should not be used with maximum loads. Additionally, some weapons will fit and fire cartridges that are expressly dangerous. One of the more common ones is the ".38" marked on the slides of guns usually before 1930 or so. The .38 on the slide refers to .38 ACP and not the more modern and common .38 Super. The Hornady manual says it better than I can: "The 38 ACP became obsolete in 1929 when Colt introduced the more powerful 38 Super Automatic, an improved version of the .38 ACP loaded to much higher pressures. The cartridges are identical in appearance, but the Super version is dangerous if fired in handguns designed for the original cartridge... Under no circumstances should 38 Super factory ammo or top equivalent reloads be fired in weapons chambered for the older 38 ACP."

I guess the above paragraph is too dense, because I still get emails occasionally asking what is safe to shoot in these guns. Also, there are a bunch of almost identical military cartridges from the same era with different names, so here's my advice in chart form:
​

http://star-firearms.com/info/index.shtml

 

[Mainsail]

I just found a bag with some boxes of .45ACP and 9mm marked +P+. --

Seriously, throw us a bone here.

Was it a box of factory ammo, or hand loads?

 

[tipoc]

The 645 is a great gun and is amazingly reliable. (Makes me wonder why Colt couldn't make the 1911 that reliable when it was in production.)

The Colt 1911 is still in production. Quite reliable.

 

[tipoc]

I just found a bag with some boxes of .45ACP and 9mm marked +P+. It's several years old and I can't remember even buying it. My question is this: I've got a couple of S&W 659s, a 5906, and a 645 autos. Oh, and a 3906 and a 6906 (with an aluminum frame). Can I safely fire this ammo in my guns or do I need stiffer springs?

"It's several years old"...Which means it's about 3 years old. Should be safe to fire. Well, provided it's commercial ammo. But then if you can'r recall where you got it maybe you can'r recall whether it's factory or not.

Proceed with caution.