9mm vs. .38 +P special

[Ben86]

Being roughly the same size they make about the same sized hole, unless you use expanding ammunition. With expanding ammunition the 9mm has the edge with better expansion and velocity. I don't have much confidence in temporary cavities with handgun rounds. Also, keep in mind the resulting velocity you will get from the barrel length of the weapon you will actually carry this ammo in when making your comparison. Most listed .38 sp velocities are from a 4 inch barrel, not a snubbie.

 

[stinger 327]

Being roughly the same size they make about the same sized hole, unless you use expanding ammunition. With expanding ammunition the 9mm has the edge with better expansion and velocity. I don't have much confidence in temporary cavities with handgun rounds. Also, keep in mind the resulting velocity you will get from the barrel length of the weapon you will actually carry this ammo in when making your comparison. Most listed .38 sp velocities are from a 4 inch barrel, not a snubbie.

The 9mm seems to be the favorite because of extra added firepower but still hopefully you know which ammo to put in or it isn't finicky about ammo. The .38 on the other hand is more dependable in this area. 9mm has been criticized for not stopping a person but again in other countries they seem to favor this caliber. Maybe there is a reason why different militaries of different countries don't use a revolver?

 

[LawofThirds]

158g @ 1000fps out of a S&W 2" J-Frame. Buffalo Bore. And before you say "It's specialty ammo!?!", I can find it at my local big box sporting warehouse and has been around long enough that I think we can call it even less of a "specialty ammo" than the hornady critical defense or any other mixed media bullet.

I think it's been shown that the super light 115's, while certainly capable of stopping a person in ideal situations, tend to fail spectacularly when the stars are not aligned. Couple that with current hollow point technology that provides a bullet that can open at low velocities and still provide excellent penetration and there's no reason not to go heavy (unless you like shallow, messy gsw's).

 

[stinger 327]

158g @ 1000fps out of a S&W 2" J-Frame. Buffalo Bore. And before you say "It's specialty ammo!?!", I can find it at my local big box sporting warehouse and has been around long enough that I think we can call it even less of a "specialty ammo" than the hornady critical defense or any other mixed media bullet.

I think it's been shown that the super light 115's, while certainly capable of stopping a person in ideal situations, tend to fail spectacularly when the stars are not aligned. Couple that with current hollow point technology that provides a bullet that can open at low velocities and still provide excellent penetration and there's no reason not to go heavy (unless you like shallow, messy gsw's).

I have shot the BB load in .357 125 grain. It's a real kicker nothing like none other. I have seen that 158 BB in HP.

 

[golden]

327--i think you are a little confused

327,

I said that in all but the SMALLEST GUN, I would choose the 9m.m. In a gun the size of a S&W J-frame model, I would go with a revolver (and I do use either a TAURUS model 85 or S&W model 36) when I choose a gun of this size AND WEIGHT.
I highlighted weight because weight has a BIG EFFECT on recoil. I used to own a KAHR 9m.m. and sold it because the combination of light weight (17 oz.) and thin grip made it uncomfortable to shoot.
I could shoot off a box of ammo and qualify, but did not enjoy it. So I sold it.

I stick with FEDERAL NYCLAD 125 grain Chief's Special load. Recoil is within my tolerance and the round will expand. Again, this is based on recoil and controllability, not any feed problems.

STINGER, if you cannot find a reliable 9m.m., all you really need is to buy a BERETTA 92 or 8000 (except for the 9000 model), GLOCK 17 or 19, SIG 226, 228 or 229, SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD or WALTHER P-99. I have shot thousands of rounds through the above listed pistols and NEVER found them unreliable or finicky.
I know there are others, but these are the 9m.m. pistols that I have personally shot and know they are not the least bit finicky about factory ammo.

If you have been using one of the 1911 pistols in 9m.m. or a pistol made before 1980 or so, you may have problems with ammo, but all of the popular pistols out there right now are pretty reliable.
If your gun is still finicky, use only REMINGTON 115 grain jhp or 115 grain jhp +P. Very few guns will not feed this ammo.

I have a SIG 225 which will not feed anything but ball, so I load it with COR BON POWERBALL ammo. I trust it enough that my wife carries it.

As to my liking at least 27 rounds, I cannot see how having LESS is an advantage. It somehow escapes me. Sort of like the guy who does not wear a bullet proof vest when he goes to make an arrest, because nothing will happen unless it is his time to go.
ArchAngel, you just keep believing that way and I will just keep carrying my 2 dozen rounds or more.

Oh, I have qualified every time I have gone to the range on my agency's qualification course for the past 19 and a half years. How about you?
I have done it with the .357 magnum, the 9m.m. using +P+ and the .40 S&W.

Jim

 

[stinger 327]

327,

I said that in all but the SMALLEST GUN, I would choose the 9m.m. In a gun the size of a S&W J-frame model, I would go with a revolver (and I do use either a TAURUS model 85 or S&W model 36) when I choose a gun of this size AND WEIGHT.
I highlighted weight because weight has a BIG EFFECT on recoil. I used to own a KAHR 9m.m. and sold it because the combination of light weight (17 oz.) and thin grip made it uncomfortable to shoot.
I could shoot off a box of ammo and qualify, but did not enjoy it. So I sold it.

I stick with FEDERAL NYCLAD 125 grain Chief's Special load. Recoil is within my tolerance and the round will expand. Again, this is based on recoil and controllability, not any feed problems.

STINGER, if you cannot find a reliable 9m.m., all you really need is to buy a BERETTA 92 or 8000 (except for the 9000 model), GLOCK 17 or 19, SIG 226, 228 or 229, SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD or WALTHER P-99. I have shot thousands of rounds through the above listed pistols and NEVER found them unreliable or finicky.
I know there are others, but these are the 9m.m. pistols that I have personally shot and know they are not the least bit finicky about factory ammo.

If you have been using one of the 1911 pistols in 9m.m. or a pistol made before 1980 or so, you may have problems with ammo, but all of the popular pistols out there right now are pretty reliable.
If your gun is still finicky, use only REMINGTON 115 grain jhp or 115 grain jhp +P. Very few guns will not feed this ammo.

I have a SIG 225 which will not feed anything but ball, so I load it with COR BON POWERBALL ammo. I trust it enough that my wife carries it.

As to my liking at least 27 rounds, I cannot see how having LESS is an advantage. It somehow escapes me. Sort of like the guy who does not wear a bullet proof vest when he goes to make an arrest, because nothing will happen unless it is his time to go.
ArchAngel, you just keep believing that way and I will just keep carrying my 2 dozen rounds or more.

Oh, I have qualified every time I have gone to the range on my agency's qualification course for the past 19 and a half years. How about you?
I have done it with the .357 magnum, the 9m.m. using +P+ and the .40 S&W.

Jim

I already have a reliable G-17, G-21 and G-23 among others. The Glocks are reliable. I just wouldn't leave it around cocked with one in the chamber. In the revolver it's already there just pick it up and shoot. That Corbon Powerball is another hot load that is designed for the finicky eaters. The 9mm just seems to be a small bullet. I prefer the .45 ACP over it as I can hit more with it.
Those light revolvers made out of special metals like Scandium? from S & W.
They are ultra light and no fun to shoot. Just a last resort type of gun. LCR Ruger is 13.5 ounces and the .357 counter part LCR is 17 ounces. I bet these light carry guns really bite back. But when your adrenalin is going you probably won't notice the gun exploding in your hand.

 

[rich642z]

The Ruger LCRs do not recoil that much because,of the Houge Tamer Grips. In the light .38s or the .357s,if you have not shot these,you do not really know until,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, YOU TRY THEM. Like I have. In my previous postings on the LCRS,I have said about getting a little tighter grip hold on these revolvers. If you do not,that is your problem,not the revolvers mentioned.

 

[golden]

But will you hit the target

STINGER,

You may not notice how uncomfortable the gun is when firing in a life and death situation, but will you hit the target?

I stay within my recoil tolerance lever for that reason. I have a .41 magnum that when fired with the full power 210 grain ammo is really accurate. It surprises me how well it will shoot.
However, the recoil means that recovery time is long and shots few. Fine for hunting, not self defense or law enforcement. When loaded with WINCHESTER Silver Tips, it is still accurate and I can shoot double action, but I am faster with a .357 and much faster with a 9m.m.

I find it hard to believe that recoil will not be a factor in how you shoot when your life depends on it. You may not notice it, but it is still there.

The j-frames are not bad to shoot with the right ammo and grips. I use rubber grips, usually the boot grip type with the light recoiling NYCLAD ammo.

Jim

 

[stinger 327]

The Ruger LCRs do not recoil that much because,of the Houge Tamer Grips. In the light .38s or the .357s,if you have not shot these,you do not really know until,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, YOU TRY THEM. Like I have. In my previous postings on the LCRS,I have said about getting a little tighter grip hold on these revolvers. If you do not,that is your problem,not the revolvers mentioned.

I have seen their 3 different models of the .38 + P LCR, the basic LCR with open sight, the LCR with tritanium sights (night sights that glow in dark?) and the most expensive LCR with the Crimson Trace Laser grips.
This Light carry revolver does have a nice DA trigger pull.

 

[stinger 327]

STINGER,

You may not notice how uncomfortable the gun is when firing in a life and death situation, but will you hit the target?

I stay within my recoil tolerance lever for that reason. I have a .41 magnum that when fired with the full power 210 grain ammo is really accurate. It surprises me how well it will shoot.
However, the recoil means that recovery time is long and shots few. Fine for hunting, not self defense or law enforcement. When loaded with WINCHESTER Silver Tips, it is still accurate and I can shoot double action, but I am faster with a .357 and much faster with a 9m.m.

I find it hard to believe that recoil will not be a factor in how you shoot when your life depends on it. You may not notice it, but it is still there.

The j-frames are not bad to shoot with the right ammo and grips. I use rubber grips, usually the boot grip type with the light recoiling NYCLAD ammo.

Jim

Depends on the movement, lighting and distance if target is hit.

 

[Ben86]

The Glocks are reliable. I just wouldn't leave it around cocked with one in the chamber. In the revolver it's already there just pick it up and shoot.

If you are comfortable with a loaded revolver why not a loaded Glock or other semi-auto?

Maybe there is a reason why different militaries of different countries don't use a revolver?

Yes, because it would put them in a severe tactical disadvantage comparatively.

 

[stinger 327]

If you are comfortable with a loaded revolver why not a loaded Glock or other semi-auto?



Yes, because it would put them in a severe tactical disadvantage comparatively.

Very comfortable with loaded revolver already loaded and ready to go. Just push trigger. Not comfortable about leaving Glock loaded with one in chamber all of the time.

 

[brnmuenchow]

Both handle just fine, there isn't enough difference between the two ballisticaly in my opinion to be that different in damaging tissue. Bullet selection is a major factor though, I carry the Winchester Supreme "PDX1" loads in both .9x19mm & .38Spl. The .38Spl.(on Ave.) is not quite as powerful as the .9mm, but pretty close.

 

[Patriotme]

There's a Marshall & Sannow chart on stopping power on www.handloads.com
That pretty much settles the winner for me.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

AK103K,
I said a "normal SD situation and you quote me something that involves Law Enforcement.
I'm not going to argue with anyone here. If you want to carry 27 or even 57 rounds do so but don't tell me I'm wrong for carrying a revolver.

You also have no idea what kind of training I have or do so don't tell me about shooting tiny little groups on paper, you have no idea who I am.

I'm done here so post if you want, I want see it!

 

[AK103K]

I know you wont see this, but just what is a "normal" SD situation?

The point of the article was, even with training, and 14 rounds in the gun, nothing is a guarantee. What happened there, could easily be one of your "normal" SD situations.

Was there anything in the last part of my last post that was "off", or did it just touch a nerve?

 

[stinger 327]

STINGER,

You may not notice how uncomfortable the gun is when firing in a life and death situation, but will you hit the target?

I stay within my recoil tolerance lever for that reason. I have a .41 magnum that when fired with the full power 210 grain ammo is really accurate. It surprises me how well it will shoot.
However, the recoil means that recovery time is long and shots few. Fine for hunting, not self defense or law enforcement. When loaded with WINCHESTER Silver Tips, it is still accurate and I can shoot double action, but I am faster with a .357 and much faster with a 9m.m.

I find it hard to believe that recoil will not be a factor in how you shoot when your life depends on it. You may not notice it, but it is still there.

The j-frames are not bad to shoot with the right ammo and grips. I use rubber grips, usually the boot grip type with the light recoiling NYCLAD ammo.

Jim

I had a chance to shoot someone elses LCR .38 on the range with a laser and the recoil was fine.

 

[stinger 327]

AK103K,
I said a "normal SD situation and you quote me something that involves Law Enforcement.
I'm not going to argue with anyone here. If you want to carry 27 or even 57 rounds do so but don't tell me I'm wrong for carrying a revolver.

You also have no idea what kind of training I have or do so don't tell me about shooting tiny little groups on paper, you have no idea who I am.

I'm done here so post if you want, I want see it!

Train train train, practice, practice and practice. At least then you have a better chance regardless if revolver or auto.