9mm all that much better than .38 special?

[JohnKSa]

the 9-minimeter is basically the ."38 Special" of autoloading cartridges

It's probably more accurate to say that the .380ACP is the .38Spl of autoloading. Based on muzzle energy, the .380ACP is virtually identical to the standard pressure .38.

When it comes to momentum/power factor, the 158gr bullet .38 loads will easily beat the .380 for momentum/power factor. However, the .380ACP comes much closer to matching the momentum numbers of the 125gr and 110gr loadings in standard pressure .38spl.

 

[antediluvianist]

Thanks

Thank you, gentlemen. Well, looks like I better use at least +P in my .357/.38 revo , or .357 (but .357 is a lot of flash and penetration inside a family home!).

I suppose I should at least think about a .45acp semi-auto.

 

[Marshall]

Both will kill!

but .357 is a lot of flash and penetration inside a family home!

IMO, a shotgun is the best home solution.

38's and 9mm's are great target practice calibers.

 

[jc2]

It's probably more accurate to say that the .380ACP is the .38Spl of autoloading.

It would probably be more accurate to say the that the best .380 ACP loads out of full-size .380s rival the low-end .38 Special loads out of two-inch revolvers. When you move up to the best .38 Special loads (e.g., the old FBI load, the current Buffalo Bore offerings and the new Speer 135-grain +P Gold Dot) and three or four-inch service-size weapons, there really is no competition (particularly in comparison to pocket-size .380s). In service-size weapons, the .38 Special easily rivals the 9x19.

(but .357 is a lot of flash and penetration inside a family home!)

You might want to check out the 145-grain Silvertip in .357 Magnum (if you are looking at a three or four inch weapon).

 

[Marshall]

You might want to check out the 145-grain Silvertip in .357 Magnum (if you are looking at a three or four inch weapon).

Good suggestion, that's what I shoot out of my Model 60. The recoil isn't unbearable but it's no pussycat either, they shoot accurately out of mine, they do all else well and are easily obtainable.

Most important, they're a good looking cartridge and don't tarnish.

 

[Marshall]

You might want to check out the 145-grain Silvertip in .357 Magnum (if you are looking at a three or four inch weapon).

Good suggestion, that's what I shoot out of my Model 60. The recoil isn't unbearable but it's no pussycat either, they shoot accurately out of mine, they do all else well and are easily obtainable.

Most important, they're a good looking cartridge and don't tarnish.

 

[Marshall]

Oops, mod's could you delete this and one of the duplicate posts above. Sorry, my mistake.

 

[JNewell]

I'd focus more on picking loads that perform well than the cartridge. Pick a platform and cartridge that you can shoot well and afford to practice with, then pick a quality performance load.

 

[JohnKSa]

It would probably be more accurate to say the that the best .380 ACP loads out of full-size .380s rival the low-end .38 Special loads out of two-inch revolvers.

What I was trying to get at was that the .380 is more comparable to the .38 than the 9mm is. That's definitely true in the energy department where the .380 and standard pressure .38special are virtual twins. If you keep to the light bullets, there's even a reasonable correlation between .380 and .38 in terms of momentum. If heavy bullets and momentum are your thing then the .38spl is going to pull ahead due to its much longer chamber which allows it to chamber much longer, heavier bullets.

Federal Ammo specs.

.380 95gr FMJ 960fps 190ft/lbs
.380 90gr JHP 1000fps 200ft/lbs

.38spl 158gr LRN 760fps 200ft/lbs
.38spl 158gr LSW 760fps 200ft/lbs
.38spl 148gr LW 710fps 165ft/lbs
.38spl 125gr NYclad 850fps 200ft/lbs

 

[jc2]

That's definitely true in the energy department where the .380 and standard pressure .38special are virtual twins.

BUT, energy really doesn't matter a whole lot in the equation--what matters is penetration first and foremost and expansion. When it comes to "on-target" performance the .38 Special is far more comparable to the 9x19 than the 9x17. The heavier bullets (greater mass) will give superior penetration in most cases. Also, for the most part you are really limited in bullet shape when it comes to .380s--they have to feed in autoloaders. That is not a problem with the .38 Special which can use far more efficient bullet shapes resulting a bigger and better wound channel. For example, the weakest .38 Special in your example (the 148-grain wadcutter) will cut a considerably better wound channel than a .380 bullet will.


FWIW, if you are going to use the .38 Special for defence, it is one calibre where you really need to use +P ammunition. The old FBI load (158-grain +P LSWCHP) can certainly hold its own with the 9x19 in service sized weapons (three to four inch barrels), and new Speer 135-grain +P Gold Dot is certainly showing promise out of two-inch barrels.

 

[JohnKSa]

energy really doesn't matter a whole lot in the equation--what matters is penetration first and foremost and expansion

Clearly there are different schools of thought on the topic (or specialty ammunition like Glaser, etc. wouldn't sell at all). Energy isn't the whole answer, but saying that penetration is the most important factor is probably is a bit of an overstatement as well or we'd all be shooting heavy RN or FMJ bullets.

The old FBI load (158-grain +P LSWCHP) can certainly hold its own with the 9x19

Yup, the heavy +P loads in the .38 match the premium standard pressure 9x19 loads--said that a week or two ago

I still don't think it's really accurate to say that the 9x19 is the .38 special of autopistol cartridges. The 9x19 outperforms the .38 in every numerically measurable category--velocity, energy, momentum--with the only point going to the .38 is its ability to handle heavier bullets. You can argue that the bullet design gives the .38 another point, but the energy and velocity advantage of the 9mm probably more than makes up for the bullet design edge--the wound channel figures I've seen bear this out.

The .380 on the other hand meets or exceeds the energy and velocity numbers for the .38 but can't match the momentum numbers and again the .38 wins in bullet design and weight. A much more even matchup, IMO.

Which is why .380s have lost a lot of popularity to the small 9mms and (as you pointed out) virtually no one carries standard pressure .38 defensive ammo anymore. Both are really at or below the bottom limit of defensive cartridges.

 

[magsnubby]

Try the new Speer Gold Dot .38 135 gr +p.

Out of my S&W M60 they're a real nice load. In my 642 they're about like a 9mm +p in my Glock 26.

 

[ilmonster]

I would use which ever caliber/gun I shot best.