9mm vs .38 Special

[DontShootMe]

In California, where the mag capacity is limited to 10:

In your opinion, which round is 'better' or 'worse' for Home Defense?

9mm +P - 10 rounds

or

.38 Special +P - 7 round cylinder

or at least which one should I grab FIRST if the SHTF?

 

[Mike Irwin]

How about the one you shoot and handle the best?

 

[P95Carry]

I carry my P95 when I can ... winter and into spring and fall . otherwise I use an M85 snubby. The 10 shot access is a major factor in choice ... plus ease of reload with spare mag ..... the snub of course is limited to 5 shots and then a speedload . slower than the 9mm by far.

Ballistics ...... well, no figures to hand re the +P variants but, using non +P examples instead .. we could have figures like this (both based on 125 FMJ)

38spl ...... approx 1,000 fps ....... equates to ..... 280 ft lbs nom.

9mm ..... approx 1150 fps ....... equates to ..... 370 ft lbs nom.

These figures are sorta averaged, out of reloading data . but broadly it shows up the 9mm as having the edge quite considerably re ME. A load for 38 I'd choose however might be 158 grn lead ... listed as around 920 fps ... which then equates to a slightly higher ME of 300 ft lbs nom.

Overall it'd be 9mm for me ... and for SD of course . in my case ... Hydrashocks (110 grn and what? ... say 1200 fps .. giving 350 ft lbs).

 

[JohnK]

which one should I grab FIRST if the SHTF?

The one that's closer so you can make it to your rifle or shotgun.

For home defense I don't think it makes a difference. Use the one that's most reliable and that you shoot best and don't worry about minor ballistic differences.

Load either one with any of the best/better defense loads for that caliber and you should be good to go.

 

[Jim March]

The 9 is hotter in terms of raw energy.

The 38 partially "catches up" in that the bullet's nose doesn't have to compromise for feed ramps. You can run really seriously big JHP cavities - the Winchester 130grain 38+P Supreme is a good example of a JHP cavity simply not seen in the 9mm universe.

If Cor-Bon ever minaturized the Pow'R'Ball down to 9mm like they say they will, that could cancel out a lot of the advantage the 38 holds in this area. Until then, I'd say that WELL CHOSEN 38+P fodder from a 4" tube equals the effect of at least 90% of the 9mm loads out there.

 

[ChristopherG]

The difference, ballistically, is a wash, if you're not too swayed by 'energy' calculations (there's a good case to be made that plain old momentum is more important in SD ammo). From a 4" barrelled .38, you could push a 125 gr. JHP +p at about 1000 fps; a 9mm will give you a couple hundred extra fps from a 124 gr. bullet, but at HD ranges, it's not gonna matter. Or, if you go heavier, as I prefer, you can get 890 fps from a .38 LSWCHP +p at 158 gr., or 980 from a 147 gr. JHP in 9mm. As I say, a wash.

Of course, if you're limited to less than a high-quality semi-auto, the choice goes to the revolver on reliability grounds. But if you can get into a Sig, HK, Glock, or something else that reputation and experience show you is utterly reliable, then it's just a question of your own shooting preference.

Unless you're married or otherwise cohabiting. I shoot a Glock much more regularly than my 686+, but the revolver is the one that stays handy in a Gunvault, 'cause my sweetheart's a little more comfortable with it, and I do fine with it, and 7 shots is enough to get the family rounded up and get the shotgun out of the big safe.

Sure, some freak-out circumstance could make you want an extra 4, but if you're losing sleep over that, you need another hobby Good luck, and enjoy shooting the snot out of whatever you go with.

CG

 

[Handy]

9mm in +P loadings is actually closer to .357 defense loads than .38 +P.

Like everyone says, the more effective tool is the one you can use more effectively.

For me, it's an auto because you get more power for less recoil, but if you already have a good .38 revolver, it's not a boat anchor.


But if the question is purely ballistics, a 9mm (revolver or auto) is going to hit harder than any .38 Special load.

 

[tbeb]

I'd grab the 9mm. Mine is loaded with standard pressure Federal 115 gr. JHP.

 

[DontShootMe]

Tanx guys!

 

[caz223]

Grab 9mm, make it to the shotgun in the next room.
Better yet, keep shotgun where you'll be close when SHTF.

 

[cool45auto]

Mike Irwin: Hear! Hear!

 

[Admiral Thrawn]

Go for the 9x19mm in a quality semi-auto.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

From the weapon side of the issue, I would grab
the 9m/m; however, from the cartridge side of
the same issue I'd have to recommend the .38 Special.
First and foremost, if TSHTF grab whatever is close to
you, to fend off the attack!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[PCRCCW]

With 9mms approaching 500 FPE Ill take it over a 38+P....for a home defense weapon..Ill take the 9mm over a 357 mag.....
Shoot well

 

[DonGlock26]

Think of a 9mm Auto as a 10+1 shot .38+P+ revolver. Get a quality semi-auto and go to a training class. 9mm ammo is cheap for pratice.

 

[Kentucky Rifle]

I don't have a 9MM yet. (Hangs head) As many pistols as I have, I just haven't found "THE" 9MM. However, The thing I've always heard is that "the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet". I don't even know what that means, but I've heard it~A LOT!

Hey! Can anyone offer an explanation as to what that means?

Thanks,
KR

 

[Akurat]

9mm. More power, less recoil (out of an autoloader), more rounds.

 

[P95Carry]

KY Rifle ........

"the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet"

Nope, not that IMO . in fact it would be difficult for feed reasons, to be able to have, for example, a semi wad cutter profile .. as has found to be useful in 38 spl.

Straigh fmj ammo in 9mm is no better or worse a bullet design IMO than same in 38..... tho usually, the weight will go higher for 38. ... eg 125 grn in 9mm vs perhaps 158 grn in 38.

Of course, things like Hydrashocks feed good in 9mm (usually) and so there could say bullet design was useful .. plus the energy advantage maybe..... but hydrashocks available for 38 spl also.

 

[Logistar]

"the 9MM is better than the .38 Special because it's a better designed bullet"

There is one argument you might make about it being a better designed bullet and I probably agree.

It isn't really the bullet (bullet design would actually go to the .38 special due to the fact that it doesn't need to feed) but it is the cartridge that is "better".

In my opinion, the .38 special WASTES space due to it's cartridge being larger than the 9mm. I can carry more 9mm in the same space and weight than I can .38 special. I like that.

Logistar

 

[Jim March]

The "bullet design advantage" goes to the 38, not the 9, so long as we're talking about projectiles.

True, the case is oversize, being the very last black powder cartridge ever designed. But while that doesn't help with bulk storage or gun size issues, it does reduce the peak pressure needed to get the same ballistics a shorter case would generate, and that makes the shot-to-shot speed better. Total felt recoil is a function of the raw ballistics but a lower-pressure version will do it's recoil as less of a "sharp crack" and more of a "big gentle push".

A lot of people are noticing that the 45LC loaded hot (+P) is easier to control and less painful than a ballistically equivelent 44Maggie. Same thing: it's the larger case size and lower peak pressures that result.

 

[Logistar]

The 9mm cartridge is smaller than the .38. If we assume for a sec that the 9mm and .38 have the same ballistics from a 6 in barrel.... would the 9 be better from a shorter (say 3-in) barrel?

Would the powder burn more quickly in the 9 so that it gets the bullet up to speed before it leaves the short barrel while the "slow-burning" powder of the .38 would still be burning long after the bullet leaves the barrel?

I may be WAY-OFF here in my reasoning but I always thought this might be an advantage of a 9 in a short barreled gun.

Can anyone set me straight on this?

Logistar

 

[Jim March]

Errr...no, I don't think that's how it works.

OK, study the ballistics of the 45LC in a strong gun like the Rugers versus the 44Maggie. There's a ton of info on the subject at http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh

You'll note that as long as everything else is done right, you can get serious performance out of the 45LC with the slowest burn powers available (H110 or similar) even out of short barrels. You have to run heavy bullets at 300grains or bigger for reasons Linebaugh goes into, to use powder THAT slow. The 45LC can also do everything the 45ACP can do - you just alter the powder charge and type some, and use the same projectiles (this is what Cor-Bon and Proload do for personal defense loads).

I strongly think the 38Spl can be "tuned" for whatever bullet weight and barrel length you want. Ditto the 9mm, except that you need a higher "minimum power level" to rack the slide - 38/38+P power levels vary far more than 9mm I believe (38 148grain target loads are a whole nuther thing from the best +P defense loads).

The only real effect of the longer case in 38 is to alter the powder type needed just a bit versus 9mm, and lower the peak pressure. Everything else is a wash.

 

[Doc]

isn't the disagreement/discussion supposed to be 9mm vs 45 ACP ?




IMHO I shoot and control semi-auto's better than light small powerful revolvers.

For me, I like a 45 LC in a full frame revolver. Lots of mass, plenty of K.E.

 

[sm]

9mm vs 38spl.

Gun fit
Which do you shoot the best.
Which have you shot the carry ammo in and KNOW for sure that it is reliable evertime, and affords you quick accurate hits.

 

[WebHobbit]

I have the answer:

They both suck compared to:

1) .357
2) .40
3) .45



Seriously though they are very similar. The best +p 9mms are better than the best +p .38s but anything less is fairly close.