9mm vs .45

[Gustav]

I have and will trust both the 9mm and .45ACP Glock I worry much less about the pistol having a KB than the exact ammunition I am loading in my pistol.
Any rifle pistol or shotgun under the right or wrong conditions can have an oopsie with improper ammuntion.
Two examples I experienced one was in a Galil a rifle that is built like a tank and able to supposedly have small Volkswagens driven over it while eating sand rocks and bullets for breakfast.
Add gun show purchased reloads and a new shooter and it was a recipe for an oopsie ouchie lets see what happened.
Case head seperation at its worst with the damaged top cover flying off and the bolt jammed all the way solid, never seen brass disintegrate(sp) like that before.
Second time was a nice Smith & Wesson firing it in a PPC match one load fired in a string was a squib load it was the fifth round but the sixth round behind it wasn't, oops hey barrels are meant to be changed right?
Allot of Glocks are out there and many people shoot cast bullets or reloads in them and even once in a while the factory ammo can have a glitch so KBs can and will happen.
I now and for many years carefully inspect each and every round I shoot (if possible weighing each one first on a scale) going through my ammo long before range day and only once inpsected does it go back in the box or range bag.

 

[Big Boomer]

45's will rule the Earth until we run out of powder...

That was a little biased heading

But pro's and con's

45 Pro's

Bigger hole. A non expanded 45 is just as big as an expanded 9

More momentum = theoretical more damage this is why we don't shoot intruders with birdshot

Lower pressure = less stress on the firearm

Shot placement is often much better depending on platform.

There is a much wider selection of 1911's in .45

Lower pressure = brass will usually last longer for reloads

Larger hole = more blood flow, easier to track

I'm sure there are more...

9mm Pro's

Faster firing (a little bit) now if you consider that most people run hot +p or +P+ in their 9's then this really becomes moot point again.

Higher capacity you get an extra 3-4 rounds in a similar sized gun

depending on bullet weight possibly better sectional density

9mm tupperware is vastly more pretty than those old steel 45's and thus retain their value much more and are really seen as long term collectors items

lighter weight when fully loaded

cheaper to shoot plinking ammo (factory)

If you are too poor to own a 45 then this is a good option

Flatter shooting trajectory depending on bullet weight, moot point with most SD encounters

for the same size diameter bullet why not choose a .357 sig especially since most shoot +p or +P+ anyhow? but that is a different topic

9mm +P+ rounds have much more power equal to the 45 but because of its caliber has no increased recoil well ya know because it's a 9!

Gangsters like to bust caps with their 9's seems to be pretty popular with them

It is by far a superior round, this is why 90% (or more) of the law enforcement agencies across the country dropped the 9mm in favor of something bigger and slower because as we all know that they hated having all that stopping power at their disposal. 9mm would literally blow people apart and this was just not PC with the public and caused so many more leo's lives to be saved and that was just not cool with the criminal community. Therefore larger, slower, less effective weapons were needed.

Not as loud I and possibly less muzzle flash

9mm sarcasm is free/45 sarcasm can cost you friends

45 Cons


Ammo is heavier

Ammo is more expensive

Looking down the bigger bore is less intimidating to would be thugs

45 is old and outdated

45 is the largest concealable automatic pistol caliber

the 9mm is more Tacticool than the 45

9mm supporters always say shot placement is king but that only applies to 9mm shooters, 45 shooters couldn't possibly hit the broad side of a barn, with the size of bullet that is coming out the end of the barrel!

Recoil is so bad from a 45 it is reported to break your wrist or tear your arm off.

The blast from the 45 is said to be heard for miles deafening all those in close proximity for days...

45's are very unpopular these days as being such a poor caliber that no one would consider buying them anymore

9mm Cons

9mm is neither the most potent round in it's relative caliber but is not the weakest so the more powerful 9mm round is vastly less accurate that the .380 because recoil is so much more and shot placement means everything, we should just all pack .380's all day long. We can't possible get off the first shot as accurately as any other caliber because the lowest recoil is always the most accurate.

9mm tupperware is vastly more pretty than those old steel 45's and thus retain their value much more and are really seen as long term collectors items





Depending on the platform you can still get high cap 45's it's not the old 7rds versus 17 thing. Its 13 vs 17 4 shots different? Alright I guess you can get those uber extended mags that you can't possibly find for a 45... If you have to get up to 10 rounds into a bg to put him down with either caliber your shot placement sucks!

In addition to the small and fast vs big and slow is that your first shot is really the only one that counts after that numerous things can happen and do, including but not limited to your target running like they are being shot at, if in a group others engaging at the same time. You will have but one opportunity to make it count and that is always going to be the first shot. So I have to ask this, if you only had ONE shot would you choose 9mm or 45? I personally could make the same shot placement for the first shot in either caliber in most guns almost identical.

In regards to "rapid fire" and shot placement I can empty 14 rds COM in about 2-3 seconds, that is expecting that of course as stated above that your target is just going to stand there and take it with a 9 you could get off a couple of extra shots in the same time frame as stated above again BFD

If you really want high cap and low recoil uberfast rounds then just go for a Five-seveN or does that put a ding in the ego of the 9 lovers? But then again I can shoot my .22 far faster and will less recoil than any of my other handguns and and can hit a fly at 10 paces. Energy and momentum are meaningless and overrated. People shot with 22's fall down stone cold dead on the first shot even better than the 9mm!

So if I haven't ticked off all the 9 lovers yet I guess I'll just have to quit and move to Britain.

 

[shu]

Well, I'm glad this important issue has at last been brought up for discussion.

 

[BADUNAME4]

Deleted. Not THR material.

 

[Hauptmann]

This is starting to sound like Glock Talk.

 

[Tom Servo]

The Almighty .45ACP as God and John Moses Browning Intended creates unparalleled energy through the sheer Biblical Force of its Awesomeness. In fact, a single .45ACP round will not only stop an attacker, it will create a rift in the space/time continuum so large that the attacker never even existed in the first place.

That helps come grand jury time. No body to tie you to the shooting.

The 9mm is okay, I guess, but I had a friend who knew someone who once read on the internet that a 9mm bullet will just make Chuck Norris angry.

Seriously, both are wonderful rounds, but you need to remember two things:

a) shot placement is everything, and

b) it's a handgun.

Nothing out a handgun gives "knockdown power." Nothing out of a handgun generates the type of force that "throws a dude across the room."

The handgun is a weapon of last resort, when diplomacy has failed and more effective ordnance isn't immediately available.

 

[meef]

I take it all back.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

The original post didn't seem to be addressing the "stopping power" aspects of the two rounds:

"After reading about glock kb's, I started wondering why the .45 cal would kb, but the 9mm wouldn't. Afterall, the pressure is lower in the .45. I think I read somewhere that the 9mm cartridge has thicker brass in the base, as compared with other pistol rounds.

Seems to me that if this is true, the 9mm is a better platform in terms of reliability/safety from the get go.

So the question is... when do manufacturer's start making .45 brass with thicker walls at the base? Obviously, this means a slightly lower charge or slightly higher pressure. But would this be more reliable?

Mind you, I don't really consider 2 or 3 documented kb's (using reloads) amidst several millions of rounds fired through the glock 21 to be a reliability/safety issue."

If the thread is to continue, let's return to the focus of the initial post.

Thanks.

 

[BlindJustice]

Yawn, ok...

Took me halfway through the Never Ending Story ( Stoopid Debates always keep coming up like bell peppers ) to figger out
*** KB stood for

Homer Simpson
DOH! KB = Kah Boom
/HOmer SImpson ( smack forhead >
I think the use of acrnyms should be considered as unclear to

Pedantic Anal Retentive (AR) Prof
Many newbies or perhaps your acronym varies from region to region
OH let me illustrate *** = WHat THe Frick well close enough
written in a technical paper the correct form is What The Frick (***)
then for the rest of your paper you can have free use in the acronym
that has been implisitly stated.
.Pedantic AR Prof. <-- It;s an Abbreviation!!!

But Seriously,

Observations and comment for the throughly cornfuzed :

* Interesting somebody said .45 Super is 28,000 PSI
.45 SUper is .45 Winchester Magnum shortened right?

FYI I read .400 CorBon is estimated at 26,500
A necked down .45 ACP case with a 25 degree angle
shoulder to .400 caliber to headspace on the shoulder

* after somone else stated .45 ACP is 21,000
& .45 +P is 24,000

* also somone mentioned that .45 GAP has a thicker brass
base I would add it is a shorter case length to operate in
guns designed for the shorter 9mm as well as .40 S&W pistols

* .45 GAP - stands for Glock Automatic, Pistol
( .45 ACP stands for Automatic Cartridge, PIstol )
this is probably true but it has to be loaded to +P
pressure in order to DUPLICATE not exceed the velocities
generated by standard pressure .45 ACP rounds.

/Pirate talking with a Cowboy
Arrrr at the Battl of Trafalgar , Admiral
Nelson got his arm blown clean off?

I Bet it was one of those high velocity
Frenchie cannons, hawrkkkkk <Pah tooeey
SPIT> heard of them...
.Pirate talking with Cowboy

wait this isn't Cowboy shooting

Let's check prices of 500 pak new brass
from Starline for some of the rounds mentioned
above as well as one most don't think of... in order of price

After all what they stamp on it isn't a variable cost
it is a fixed cost so the divfference in price I would
think be related
1) amount of material
& 2) Demand to a certain degree

.45 ACP ---- $ 74.95
45 GAP ---- $ 77.00
.45 Auto RIm $ 79.10
.45 ACP +P $ 79.95
.45 Colt ----- $ 81.40 ( .38 longer than .45 Auto RIm )
.45 Super --- $ 92.10
.400 CorBon -- $ 82.15 (factor in higher cost to form shoulder )
( .45 Win Mag $ 97.10 ( longer than .45 Super ok...)

Thoughts

* AUto RIm is the rimmed case of the same length as ACP to
fire in the S & W and other WHeel guns. It has a thicker than normal
rim in order to place the primer at the same distance that the moon
clips occupy. It is a stronger case but the pussies at SAAMI rate it a
14,000 PSI

* the Colt round is only $ 1.45 more than AUto RIm because
while .38 of an inch longer the rim is only .045 inch while the
Auto RIm is .0775

* ACP +P is $ 5 more than ACP = more material in the base

( forming the shoulder of .400 CorBon is more time consuming and
adds a step or two in forming the brass case = more cost

That Super and WIn Mag cost more is probably related to low demand

Comments?

oh, to throw a bone to the little yappy dog

.380 Auto ---- $ 59.00
9MM Parabellum $ 61.95
9MM +P ----- $ 63.15
.40 S & W --- $ 69.95
.30 Luger ------ $ 80.10 ( forming the shoulder takes time it's
.357 Sig ------- $ 80.75 at least a two steps in forming the shoulder ! )
.30

 

[Big Boomer]

and I thought I wrote a book! But honestly, as long as you carry SOMETHING I'll be happy.

Try em both shoot what you like, just remember if your are going to carry it would you bet your life on it?

Happy Hunting

 

[Obiwan]

all the service pistol calibers (9mm and above) with good ammo can and will get the job done

Their relative performance in terms of penetration and expansion are so close that you should all spend more time shooting and less time worrying about caliber

All handguns are pitiful popguns and multiple accurate hits will likely be required to end a threat

I think a platform that you can operate well is much more imprtant than caliber

 

[Checkman]

Oh sweet Jesus. I do believe that dead horse is stinking because it is rotting.