a man confronts you with a gun

[Ed Ames]

Umm... again, all I can speak for is a limited example. I don't know about hunters... my grandfather's experience is much closer to that of the guy in the original story in this thread. The easiest access to the land (not only, but easiest) was straight through the center of my grandfather's land and my grandfather was OK with it until the guy had left ruts in the driveway deep enough to block access.

In the case of my grandfather he went to court. He lost a lot of damned money. It was an easement before he went to court. All going to court did was establish that it would stay an easement forever. No paper trail was required, just use.

As for making enemies... it's a great way of making enemies. You can say whatever else you want but it is that before and after everything else. Had my grandfather stopped it on day one he would've been viewed as an unpleasant old coot.... when he let it go on for a while and then stopped it, he became something worse. The end result was that my grandfather not only had ruts in his driveway, he had tire tracks through his vegetable garden and mysterious bullet holes in his house... and he still lost in court.

Oh, yeah... In the case of my driveway, I've put a stop to it whenever observed (e.g. when someone started bypassing through my driveway regularly the wires were raised to block access.) Since the "loop" circles around a rather small landscaped island in front of the property (and so you actually go further out of your way by 40 feet to get to exactly the same place) it's not actually a big deal but I've policed it because I'm an unpleasant young coot The property except for the driveway and island is completely fenced and the island has a short riser wall around it so anyone trying to cross it would be guilty of vandalism. If anyone tried to claim it was an easement I'd fight them and I suspect I'd win but nobody would be crazy enough to do so... so my wire gates are sufficient in my opinion and hopefully I'll never find out I'm wrong.

Every circumstance is different. The main point is that land ownership rights are like gun rights... you have them so long as you exercise and defend them. A failure to defend them today can cause you major regrets later on.

 

[Zoogster]

As for making enemies... it's a great way of making enemies. You can say whatever else you want but it is that before and after everything else. Had my grandfather stopped it on day one he would've been viewed as an unpleasant old coot.... when he let it go on for a while and then stopped it, he became something worse.

Exactly, and while I at one time thought such people were annoying and not understanding or compassionate, I now completely understand them and support them.

Being an old or young unpleasant coot to some sure beats losing freedom over the most valuable asset most people will ever own, thier property.

Moraly you would be inclined to let people do things that do not bother or inconvenience you. Legaly that is very foolish.
As I said, the law has no exemption for "nice guys".

 

[SEMO Shooter]

Since it was handled without anyone getting shot or killed that was great. An easement dispute isn't worth getting killed for or worth killing someone else over. I don't like like lawyers but this is the type of dispute that we hire them for.

A guy I went to high school with got killed in a gun fight with his neighbor over something just about like this 25 years ago.

 

[che_70b]

Basic decency toward your fellow man would go along way solving alot of these propert problems. I the area I grew up in, and still live in, locals were always very friendly to other people crossing and using their property respecfully. This system, always, worked out well. As a result there are some very nices stretches of fishing water that anybody who wants to is welcome to use. We personally let quite a few artifact hunters search on our other farm since there are things to be found and is not a hobby we partake of. The downside is that now there are few wealthy outsiders (don't even live in state) that have bought pieces of land here and there, have nothing to do with anybody else, and find it perfectly acceptable to put up gates and signs telling folks who live here they are no longer welcome. The overall result of this is that locals are very disinclined to respect their property anymore, they are not here to watch for poachers and vandals and no one who is around is going to report such misbehavior. If they were nice to local residents they would find good people who would keep and eye out for them, instead they choose to be stand offish and rude. This is something to consider in all things, not just land use, being rude to people tends to get a negative response, this is why I try to people with due decency, all the legal right in the world does not matter if I'm jerk when I could have been decent and get killed in the disagreement.

 

[TallPine]

This is something to consider in all things, not just land use, being rude to people tends to get a negative response, this is why I try to people with due decency, all the legal right in the world does not matter if I'm jerk when I could have been decent and get killed in the disagreement.

che_70b, you are correct in 98% of instances, and that is the way I try to live.

However, we had a former-neighbor who was a dedicated PITA, to say the least. I tried to be nice to him right from the start, but he apparently took that as a sign of weakness on my part. The first time we ever talked to him, he lectured us about how we could not let our dogs run loose, and then the day we moved in his dog was over at our house, and virtually every day after that (until the dog's sudden demise). He also griped about our dogs pooping in his easement through our land which was his only access. (we could have installed cattle guards and fences and run cows on our land )

I really don't mind folks hiking on or through my place as long as they are not bothering anything, or creeping around our house/yard area. But this guy had his "boyfriends" (mostly convicted felons) riding quads all over our place making tracks and harrassing horses in a corral (we had no pasture fence yet at that time). Maybe I should have called the sheriff but a good ass-chewing solved that problem. I didn't put up "no trespassing" signs until after that.

Our other neighbors had the same issue with this guy and put up a bunch of signs about the same time. They specifically came over to tell us that the signs did not apply to us.

Now another gentleman from out of state has bought that property, and he and I get along great. I am watching his place during the winter and doing some mowing in the summer. With his permission and financial assistance, we installed a locked gate across his driveway to keep out the no-good-niks that still show up once in a while looking for our infamous ex-neighbor.

Treat others as you would like to be treated. But I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid hands on - I don't do those things to others and I expect the same from them

 

[Lurper]

Paint:
If this story is true, tell your friend's dad to research "Adverse Possesion" depending on the circumstances, his property could be at risk.

As far as handling the situation, he should have called the sherrif to escort him if the road is in fact public.

 

[ZeSpectre]

My reply had nothing to do with firearms so I'm removing it.

As for the "confrontation" situation, no reason AT ALL to escalate it in this manner unless you needed emergency access to the property so you leave, notify the authorities, and proceed from there. This isn't a life/death situation unless you make it one and then a court will SLAM-DUNK you for bad behavior.

 

[chipperi]

If someones property is landlocked from the nearest public road by someone elses property this creates an Easement by Necessity. He has no right whatsoever to block that easement. Now cutting the gate with a torch was not the brightest idea. He should have called the law to get the gate removed, and had the local zoning board contact the person and advise him of the law. I know this to be true in my state of TN as I still ho;d a real estate license here though retired.

 

[che_70b]

I agree tallpine. The treat people decently things goes both ways and we do react to destructive behavior. There are two intances that come to mind. Several years ago my dad and younger brother found another pair of hunters in our permanent blind at the other farm. The other pair apologized and left quickly. The other incident involved our new next door neighbors and our dogs. A doe and fawn came down into the yard and the dogs, unfortnately, killed the fawn. We were inside and did not hear anything (large yard and our dogs are not barkers they either ignore or go after). The new neighbor was outside walking and saw what was going on and RAN in to break it up. Luckily the dogs are very good about not biting people for stranger to charge in to them mid kill and not get snipped. He then came to the door with the deer and threatened to kill the dogs over it. We told him to leave and not come back and that he would be prosecuted if the dogs were bothered. About two weeks later dad finds a deer stand that the new guy had put up on property. He took it down and left the man a note about were he could find and explaining that it would not have been a problem if he had not threated the dogs. They still live there but no longer speak to any of us.