Confronted on my property?

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Well as an update I received a phone call from the deputy and he asked me today if I minded if he went and told said jerk that if he ever steps so much as his big toe across my property line again he will have his butt in jail faster than he can say sheriff so it looks like it all worked out for me
 
What USNChief said, and the CT Warning.

horsemen61 - A call to the High Sheriff praising the Deputy's performance and his follow up call to you would go a long way.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
horsemen61 said:
Well as an update I received a phone call from the deputy and he asked me today if I minded if he went and told said jerk that if he ever steps so much as his big toe across my property line again he will have his butt in jail faster than he can say sheriff so it looks like it all worked out for me
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Well, that's good news!

With respect to the deputy's request, if it were me I'd discuss the potential merits of doing this with him, based on his knowledge and understanding of the social dynamics involved. Apparently he already knows the guy and his behavior. If in the deputy's opinion this is honestly called for, then defer to the deputy's judgement. (And put it that way...it's a respectful acknowledgement of the deputy's knowledge, experience, and authority.)

This guy may or may not be a future problem. Certainly you cannot be on your property 100% of the time to make sure he complies or doesn't do something vindictive afterwards. And he may, indeed, be an [deleted] most of the time. These are things to discuss with the deputy, as well as whether or not it would be worth your while to offer an extension of your pemission to hunt on your property so long as he first requests this of you ahead of time.


This isn't being "namby-pamby" about how you treat the guy...it's an exercise in social dynamics that may work for you on several levels. If nothing else, it establishes the good nature of your character with the relevant authorities and smooths the way for future contact:

- If the deputy doesn't think it would do any good, then you've still got the deputy's attention by the way you're thinking. Goes a long way towards how the sheriff's department may handle any future issues involving you and your property.

- If the deputy thinks it might do some good, it can be mentioned when he talks to the guy.

- If this guy DOES have other social connections to the Sheriff or the department, then when he's making an [deleted] out of himself a good response by deputies might be "Have you tried asking this guy for permission to hunt on his property?" Kind of working behind the scenes, if you will.
 
I can see both sides. 1. Target shooting during a short deer season was less than thoughtful to others., 2. The OP had every right to do so anyway., 3. The trespasser should have been far more diplomatic... as should the OP.

This just proves the point that we can all be less than thoughtful to others.
 
Some people. Try to remain calm and educate them that everyone else's life doesn't get put on hold because they're hunting (I'm a hunter too).

Have a few friends that were doing tactical drills on their own land (20+ acres) when a hunter came out of the woods and started yelling at them in a similar fashion. He even took 'an aggressive stance' when they laughed and told him to leave. Luckily for him he didn't get too aggressive considering he was one man with a bolt action and they had loaded AR's and body armor :)

Personally I try my best to show them my side (common sense in this case) because I've gotten wrapped up in my own stuff too and not realized that I had the wrong perspective.
 
I really hate when jackwagons play the "I know someone better than you game" to make themselves look better. Your land, your rules. And I have no idea how I would have handled that situation any better than you did, other than shooting to prove your point that is.
 
Ah dammitboy who said anything about empty the glock 17 mag fits nicely in a glock 19 so topped off I had 3 rounds left so I'm feeling pretty good about that
 
Here in MI firearms deer season is but two weeks long. Out of respect for the hunters during most popular, shortest season of the year hereabouts we do not run our dogs for small game or upland, nor do we target shoot, private property or not.
The guy who confronted you was a jerk, but one has to wonder how many others less loquacious heard you and just sat in their stands shaking their heads thinking unkind thought of you.
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Well, those hunters can buy that land for the price the owners set for it, and then they won't have any reason to complain. Until that time comes, someone else bought and paid for that property and will use it as they see fit. I get mighty sick of people telling other people what they should and shouldn't do with their land. I don't tell you what kind of truck to drive or how to raise your dog, what makes you you or anyone else think they have any right to tell or even suggest what people do with their private property? The length of someone else's hunting season has absolutely no bearing on how I utilize my land. When someone else is paying the property taxes, they can determine how the land it used. Just my opinion....
 
Davek1977 said:
Well, those hunters can buy that land for the price the owners set for it, and then they won't have any reason to complain. Until that time comes, someone else bought and paid for that property and will use it as they see fit. I get mighty sick of people telling other people what they should and shouldn't do with their land. I don't tell you what kind of truck to drive or how to raise your dog, what makes you you or anyone else think they have any right to tell or even suggest what people do with their private property? The length of someone else's hunting season has absolutely no bearing on how I utilize my land. When someone else is paying the property taxes, they can determine how the land it used. Just my opinion....
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OK, this probably won't make me popular but...

When you have a 10 acre plot you do have all the rights of ownership. Let me ask you this though, what if you were sitting in a tree stand on your ten acres and the guy that owned the next ten over started cutting loose with a handgun? Would you take the attitude his land, his rules or that his use of his land prevents you from the enjoyment of yours?

Here is just another little thought that struck me as I read this thread. I have to wonder if the hunter may have leased the adjoining land for hunting. If he had your unneighborly behavior was taking money out of his pocket.

I'll be the first to say that your rights on your ten acres should be absolute. But the reality is there are 640 acres in a section and you need to consider the rights of the owners of the other 630 in the meanwhile. Sorry, but while the hunter was wrong, so was the OP. Your rights end at the property line and the noise from the handgun crossed it.
 
I totally don't see it that way. If someone paid for the privedge of hunting the neighbor's land, he paid for use of THAT land, and THAT land ONLY. His purchase, rental, agreement, whatever has NOTHING to do with me, nor will I concede that I'm taking any money away from anyone else by using the land *I* lawfully purchased as I see fit. He didn't make the agreement on the condition the ten acres he hunts would be "noise free" or "free from interruption from adjacent landowners lawfully using their land as they see fit during the course of any hunting season". If he leased the land, he did so knowing there were neighbirs, and that their activity may affect his hunting possibly. Our family ranch is over 10k acres. We don't always like what our neighbors do on their side of the fence, but it isn't our property and we don't have any say in it. Whether its a 10k acre ranch, or ten acre plot, what we do with our land isn't determined by what the neighbors would like us to do, but by what we are legally able to use the land for within our desires.
 
Hunters aren't so whiney in my neck of the woods. If I fail to bag a deer, I look at other factors besides noisy neighbors.... Poor scouting, poor stand placement, weather, scent, or just plain luck. Kudos to the deputy and Kudos to you for keeping your cool. Wouldn't have turned my back on him though.
 
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Indeed, that is "on me" , but luckily have neighbors who see things as I do....what happens on my side is my concern, on their side, their concern. We get along just fine with this arrangement. I, in a million years, cannot fathom telling them not to shoot because it might interrupt my hunting though. Such a thing just isn't heard of in these parts, and would be far more insulting than simply going about one's business.....and I'm still awed by the insinuation that I'm somehow taking money out of anyone's pocket by using my land in a manner that complies with all local laws. Hunting is just that..hunting. We don't have control of nature, and we don't have control of neighbors. Furthermore, I don't see how someone LEASING land on adjacent property gives them MORE rights than the landowner residing on his or her OWN property. That idea makes absolutely NO sense to me. My neighbor can rent land to anyone he or she wants to....that has absolutely NO impact on how I utilize my own land. When someone else has the deed and pays the taxes, I'll take suggestions from them on what I can and cannot do, and when I can do it. We have great relationships with all the adjacent landowners surrounding the ranch...a large part of that is allowing them to operate as they see fit, and them returning the favor.
 
Me " laughing as I turn and pump 15 rounds from my new glock 19 into the target. I then calmly tell the guy "my property I can shoot when I want."
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This is the only thing that bothered me about the exchange. You had an armed trespassing stranger on your property making demands and cussing at you and you turned away from him and did what you knew would piss him off. From a personal safety standpoint, that wasn't smart. It worked out fine, but don't turn your back on strangers who are obviously armed and upset with you and then do what you know will make them madder in the process.
 
Personally... I was taught as a kid not to go shooting during hunting season as a simple and easy courtesy to others, who wait a year to enjoy a short period of activity that cannot be duplicated "next week". It's just common courtesy. Guys spend an entire year sighting in, handloading, putting together their kits and rigs, and the culmination of all of that planning is perhaps a week, perhaps less, actually hunting. It's the right thing to do to leave things quiet during that time.

With that said, (sing the following to the tune of "this land is our land") is the law of the land *with exceptions*:

"This land is my land, it is not your land, from that tree over, to the redwood forest. I have a shotgun, and it is loaded. This land was made just for me"

Some of the exceptions are things like playing your stereo loudly enough at 3:00AM that your neighbors can't sleep. Your right to enjoy your property is not absolute, if your actions cause others to not be able to enjoy theirs.

Lots of this depends on the size of your plot, etc. Our farm when I was a kid was just 160 acres, hardly enough to shoot on near the edges without impacting folks who paid adjoining farmers leases for hunting. It was just socially bad citizenship to go shoot tin cans during deer season.

Trespassing armed... well... in hunting season we were "a bit" relaxed about it, offering unrestricted fair chase of a wounded animal and all that. But the odd City-Nimrod found in our pasture was given a lecture about property use and shown the fenceline, with encouragemnt to avail himself of the opportunity to escape before we let Elmer outta his stall. Elmer was a mean bull, and the offer was generally accepted with alacrity.... :rolleyes:

Social Norms are expected on both sides. Belligerance from a trespasser would not be accepted if expressed without provocation. Shooting near edges of property during season... well... that's provocation.

Folks DO get shot over this stuff. Sometimes it's best just to walk off and preserve your life.



Willie

.
 
Playing your stereo at 3 Am falls under ILLEGAL use of your property, as it is considered disturbing the peace. The same cannot be said for target shooting on your own property during daylight hours. At 3AM you have a reasonable expectation of quiet. In the middle of the afternoon, not so much. Apples to oranges, two completely different scenarios, both ethically and legally.
 
But he had a gun which makes him a gun owner and therefore a 2A supporter like us so he must be a great guy.

I quite often shoot during deer season. I always do it during the middle of the day so I lessen any impact I might have on hunters but I don't take 4 months off from practice to accommodate other hunters.

I would probably have asked him what land he had leased with the hopes of being able to contact that landowner if needed. If he was as angry as you say then I DEFINITELY would have called the sheriff as he was trespassing with a gun and obviously hunting which is called poaching. In many states he has no legal right to come onto your property for any reason without your permission. Act like an ass and get treated like an ass.
Emptying a mag while he was standing there just to prove you could was not a wise move IMO as all it accomplished was to "show him" which you had already done by telling him where you stood on the issue.

I guarantee that this guy was hunting VERY close to your land and, based on his actions, he will have no problem shooting a deer on your property or causing other issues if he can. some people are just jerks and nothing you do will change that.
 
Willie Sutton said:
Personally... I was taught as a kid not to go shooting during hunting season as a simple and easy courtesy to others, who wait a year to enjoy a short period of activity that cannot be duplicated "next week". It's just common courtesy. Guys spend an entire year sighting in, handloading, putting together their kits and rigs, and the culmination of all of that planning is perhaps a week, perhaps less, actually hunting. It's the right thing to do to leave things quiet during that time.

With that said, (sing the following to the tune of "this land is our land") is the law of the land *with exceptions*:

"This land is my land, it is not your land, from that tree over, to the redwood forest. I have a shotgun, and it is loaded. This land was made just for me"

Some of the exceptions are things like playing your stereo loudly enough at 3:00AM that your neighbors can't sleep. Your right to enjoy your property is not absolute, if your actions cause others to not be able to enjoy theirs.

Lots of this depends on the size of your plot, etc. Our farm when I was a kid was just 160 acres, hardly enough to shoot on near the edges without impacting folks who paid adjoining farmers leases for hunting. It was just socially bad citizenship to go shoot tin cans during deer season.

Trespassing armed... well... in hunting season we were "a bit" relaxed about it, offering unrestricted fair chase of a wounded animal and all that. But the odd City-Nimrod found in our pasture was given a lecture about property use and shown the fenceline, with encouragemnt to avail himself of the opportunity to escape before we let Elmer outta his stall. Elmer was a mean bull, and the offer was generally accepted with alacrity.... :rolleyes:

Social Norms are expected on both sides. Belligerance from a trespasser would not be accepted if expressed without provocation. Shooting near edges of property during season... well... that's provocation.

Folks DO get shot over this stuff. Sometimes it's best just to walk off and preserve your life.



Willie

.
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Hi Willie Sutton,

I just thank God and all the Saints that the concept of being a neighbor hasn't died in my little slice of cattle country. I'd go into a rant right about now but I've worked all night and I never rant while I'm sleepy.
 
My respose would have quickly become "You are trespassing on land. Please leave, now.". :)
 
Like I said, being neighborly isn't an issue. We have great relations with all our neighbors, in part, because we consider it rude to tell other people what we think they ought to do. We do any and everything to help our neighbors, and vice versa......we routinely exchange help working cattle and whatnot, because thats just what you *do* when you have neighbors in cattle country......but we don't tell them what we think they ought to do with their land or when we think they ought to do it. Respect for the land also means respecting other's choices, whether we personally agree with them or not. I may not like my neighbor's wife's choice of clothing, but in the interest of being nieghborly, I probably wouldn't point that out to my neighbor. Part of being a good neighbor is knowing when to mind your own business.
 
"Playing your stereo at 3 Am falls under ILLEGAL use of your property, as it is considered disturbing the peace. The same cannot be said for target shooting on your own property during daylight hours"


And there's a difference between being a wise man and a smart ass.

Wise men show each other respect. Smart asses put their finger a half-inch from your nose and say "I'm not touching you...".

There's a difference between legal and smart. Take yer choice, and expect the anticipated result. Just 'cause it's legal don't make it smart. Don't be surprised when the police come and hassle you for "legal open carry" of an AR-15 'round town, don't be surprised when you get punched in the nose for pokin' your index finger a half inch in front of another feller's nose while sayin' "I ain't touching you", and don't expect to be called a hero for shootin' tin cans on your 10 acres of out-of-town paradise when it nestles up to 600 acres of other folks huntin' woods durin' season. You can... but If I did that I'd 'spect to accept the social consequences. Which in the neck of the woods I grew up in would mean a serious lack of willing hired labor at hay balin' time at best, and sometimes mysterious barn fires do happen with all of those old wires and such in such a dry spot. Just sayin.

Us country folks have long memories for others with a lack of neighborly behaviour and you can't guard your property 24/7/365. Often just best to use common sense rather than lawyers to sort things out. Staying out of the woods during deer season with all of those other folks you don't know wandering around with rifles seems like common sense to old Willie.


"have neighbors who see things as I do....what happens on my side is my concern, on their side, their concern. We get along just fine with this arrangement. I, in a million years, cannot fathom telling them not to shoot because it might interrupt my hunting though".


And because they are good neighbors, you don't likely need to nor do they. That's the entire point...


"Part of being a good neighbor is knowing when to mind your own business"

Part of which is not setting up your M-1919A1 belt fed and blastin' a belt down the wash between 10 and 11 on Sundays when the preacher a half mile away is having his chance to talk (there's a funny story there, but time for that later), nor to annoy your tree-stand huntin' neighbors during the dawn and dusk hours in season. You don't need to speak to send a message.

So much of this is contextual to the area you are in, so... sadly the common use of common sense ain't that common. And the closer men are stuck towards each other, the less neighborly they seem to get. Sort of like caging too many rats together. Three is plenty for both neighbors and rats.


Pop used to tell me that you need to be a good neighbor in order to have a good neighbor. With that said, bein' one is no guarantee that you're gonna have one. Do your part and hope that others reciprocate is all you can do. If they don't, then.. well.... you need to do what you need to do.



Willie

.
 
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One folks I did not turn my back on this man I could see him well enough that if he so much as made a move to his rifle he would have been covered two I drove over an hour just to try out my new pistol so yes say what you want about the sanctity of deer season also it was just antlerless season anyways not opening day of rifle guys but no Radom ticked off neighbor will keep me from shooting on my land I was not trying to make him more mad the point I got across is big deal your older than me I ain't some punk kid you can yell at and make me listen I think he got the message and yes I enjoyed meeting the deputy
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Ah dammitboy who said anything about empty the glock 17 mag fits nicely in a glock 19 so topped off I had 3 rounds left so I'm feeling pretty good about that
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..........?,,,,..
 
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