spittle,
You are operating from what sounds like a VERY specific scenerio that you are envisioning. Even so, there are things within it that are muddy.
I wouldn't start a fight, not my thing.
and then...
Even good guys do bad ****, like start fights.
OK.....
How about....
If I get into a disagreement with someone and it proceeds to a gentleman's duel, he'd be making a grave mistake by drawing down because he now wants to avoid the fist fight.
Dude... this IS NOT a "gentleman's duel if "he now wants to avoid the fist fight."
No, what you are describing is two people getting in an arguement and you decide that you'll beat the hell out of them and they have decided that they don't want that.
That is NOT a gentleman's duel. That is YOU choosing to escalate a verbal disagreement into physical assault.
I seriously hope that you can see the issue with that.
The kind of person that would draw in that situation most likely doesn't have the stones to pull the trigger.
Don't bet your life on it.
I don't plan on getting into it with a CCW-permit holder, and if such a person antagonized a fight, they have no business carrying.
Translation (it seems):
I may instigate fights, so I don't want to have a CCW and if I choose to attack you, you should not have one either.
The VAST majority of landed blows DO NOT result in death. It's not as rare as a lightning strike, but you can rest assured you're very unlikely to die from a single blow.
YOU do not have the right to play the statistics with MY life-- especially with someone who is trying TO AVOID a fight where you want to "humiliate them (from your earlier post).
Spin it all you want. I've witnessed severe injuries from fights in my 37 years. YOU do not have the right to decide if I will experience them.
If you get into a fight that did not start with a sucker punch or some such, you probably shouldn't draw unless you're losing badly and fear they may take it too far. In that case, you're morally obligated to make them aware of the fact that you are armed, and only shoot if they come forward, looking to wound. An unarmed man isn't likely to kill you, you can go for the knees first...
We do not live in your "Fight Club" nor do we have to subscribe to your notion of "honor" in a fight.
But how's this....
I think it is VERY reasonable that a person who has chosen to assault someone is a person that I should "fear they may take it too far."
...you're morally obligated to make them aware of the fact that you are armed, and only shoot if they come forward, looking to wound.
I am morally obligated to NOTHING when dealing with someone who is assaulting me. You honestly act like assault is some kind of "gentleman's game."
I guarantee you that any normal jury will put you away for shooting someone to avoid a fist fight.
Nothing is guaranteed. I happen to believe that my lawyer would paint you as a mentally-unstable, raging goon that spends his waking hours seeking people to beat down in order to compensate for something like sexual impotence. Likely, he'll have a long record to operate from and a good number of character witnesses.
if the guy comes forward and you are crippled or otherwise limited and can't outrun the guy, then draw, but it should be your LAST move, not the first line of defense, and you should give him a chance to back down or go for the legs before shooting to kill.
Wait... you CRIPPLE me and I should "give you the change to back down??"
What is the color of the sky in the world that you live in?
If you feel responsible enough to carry a concealed firearm you can carry some mace, a tazer, and/or learn a fighting art.
Or not. I have a 2nd degree black belt, and am a former ring-fighter. Which is where I've SEEN what permanent injuries a fist can do with my own eyes.
I never said I would initiate a non-consensual fight
Again, you contridict yourself-- or you operate from a very narrow set of assumptions that you hold to yourself.
If I get into a disagreement with someone and it proceeds to a gentleman's duel, he'd be making a grave mistake by drawing down because he now wants to avoid the fist fight.
That sounds EXACTLY like a nonconsentual fight.
In fact, EVERYTHING you have posted has to do with people wanting to "AVOID A FIGHT."
But let's be clear. I think everyone is talking "past one another." It seems that you are trying to describe a situation where two idiots decide to fight, one is getting his butt kicked and decides to prematurely end it by drawing a gun.
I think you fail to realize the people that you are talking to on this forum.
The VAST number of people you are speaking to are LONG past such idiocy of ego-driven fist-fights. The people that you are talking to typically DO NOT engage in consentual fist-fights. The people that you are speaking to, in general, mind their own business. Sure, they will speak their minds, but that is a LONG way from engaging in physical altercations.
From what I am seeing, the people you are speaking to are describing this scenerio from THEIR perspective where some jack-hole has decided to "humiliate" them via a physical assault where there has been NO prior trading of blows. They do this because they do not see themselves in such a situation of trading prior blows. They've gotten past such idiocy.
Now, have two options on this:
1.) Either continue discussing this from the point of an assumption of an escalated consenting fist-fight, or
2.) discuss this from the perspective of the assumption that one person has chosen to avoid being physically assaulted by someone initiating an assault.
If you try to blend the two, it does not bode well for any moral standing. But of course, that is your choice.
Are you quite sure? It's just as plausible that I'd grab the gun, swallow a gut wound and turn it on the fellow, and I'd then be able to justify using his own firearm against him as he had just shot me. If you're within punching distance you better know what you're doing if you're going to draw and discharge a firearm. Gunshot wounds aren't generally instantly fatal.
Man, you are betting with a LOT of assumptions.
Rational people don't go from "I don't want to fight, dude!" to "BANG BANG you're dead." THAT is insane. It's not even cooky, it's outright insane.
Again, I think you are operating from the assumption of your "Fight Club."
You can't tell me that you're seriously afraid of a single punch.
I'll tell that to the guy I know who got the detached retina from a single punch.
While it's honorable that you maintain a level of conditioning, you're not obligated to give a fist fight.
This further reinforces the notion of what others HAVE to do to fit into your "code of honor."
Just so we are clear... I'm not obiligated to "give" you anything nor am I obiligated to buy into your code of honor.
I'm just asking that we all temper that sentiment with some compassion.
If a person has chosen to assault me, I have no obligation to offer any compassion.
-- John