A modern Destroyer carbine?

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cluttonfred

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The Spanish Destroyer carbine is in many ways the ancestor of the modern police patrol rifle--a light, low-recoil long arm with less risk of over-penetration than a full-bore rifle and far better accuracy and practical range than a pistol even when using the same cartridge.

destroy.gif

I mentioned in another thread the idea of a modern, bolt action, pistol caliber carbine. Perhaps with a synthetic stock, optionally folding like the MAS36 CR39, 16" barrel, good protected peep sights like Tech Sights plus a scope rail, common pistol magazines, say Glock G26/27/30 10-rounders in 9mm/.40S&W/.45ACP which allows the larger size Glock mags if you have the urge? Keep everything light and handy, say a loaded weight under 5 lbs? Maybe a slick, short-throw, simplified Lee-Enfield action, cock on closing, for rapid fire?

With careful design only the magazine well, barrel and bolt face would have to change between different caliber versions to keep the cost down. Perhaps a stock "empty" magazine well could be fitted with different adapters to allow other types of magazines such as Colt 1911 .45 ACP. The result would be similar to, but hopefully much cheaper than, the British Armalon carbines.

armalon-pc2.jpg

I think one of these would be great fun at the range and could do double duty as a truck gun or even for home defense. Aside from the current ammo craziness, pistol ammo is usually cheaper than rifle ammo, and many pistol ranges will allow pistol caliber carbines which is a big plus for urban/suburban gun owners looking for a place to shoot. What do you think? Any interest in something like that?
 
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Probably never :(
Once you've solved the feeding problem (Hey! we can use pistol magazines!!) it's just too easy to go ahead and use either blowback or locked action in a semi-auto. The only non-auto PCC's these days are lever actions.
 
I don't know about the 700, but there are aleady the Ruger 77/357 and 77/44 in revolver calibers. I was thinking that auto pistol calibers would be nice, too.
 
Wouldn't it be great if there was an easy to build and well supported center fire platform other than an AR? I could see a short action receiver with easily swappable bolts and barrels, mags with a standard outside shape but internals for different calibers. Or maybe bolt on adapters to use readily available magazines. D&T for a rail on top for optics, iron sights could follow the barrels. Like a TC contender, but bolt action.
 
light, low-recoil long arm with less risk of over-penetration than a full-bore rifle and far better accuracy and practical range than a pistol even when using the same cartridge.


This is solved with the carbine length AR's. The 223/5.56 is proven to penetrate less than pistol rounds with much better performance. Pistol caliber carbines for the most part are on the way out. The levers in magnum pistol calibers fill a niche, but none of the semi's do anymore.

There are the Ruger bolt guns in 357 and 44 mag for hunters who are restricted to such rounds for hunting too.
 
There is more to life than ARs. :rolleyes: please don't turn this thread into a mess like the last one.
 
jmr's comment applies to bolt guns too... 5.56 is a very good cartridge for stopping people without over penetrating, and the 5.56 cartridge weighs the same as a 9mm cartridge.
 
Bolt action rifle? NO.

There is only one proper situation for use for bolt-action rifle: Stand off distance.

What you're suggesting may be a fun low-recoil recreation rifle, but it is in no way suited for duty unless the personnel involved somehow knows that he or she will always fight in some sort of stand off situation, and even then it will be a problem when the opponent is behind a glass or light barrier.
 
If we are going to be designing it today, why bother to make it a bolt action? Personally I think blowback AR is the modern decedent. I really like mine in 9mm.
 
The M1 Carbine is awesome, but there is no one still making them or replacement parts. There are a few companies that ones they market as them, but they only visually look like one and have very very different internals.
 
Rondog, well it looks like I was wrong. I though that was one of the clones that used a pistol like action instead of a gas operated one.
 
As neat as it sounds I would far prefer the same calibers be put onto a 410 double barrel frame for a fun, light double rifle. Extremely simple, very useful, very fun. Hell, make it in revolver and pistol cartridges with interchangeable barrels. It won't happen but I wish do much that it would. I don't have the mechanical ability to fabricate such a critter either or I would.
 
I think if someone made a reliable, otherwise authentic M-1 carbine in 9MM, I'd have to buy it. I know Chiappa has one out, but the reviews scare me..



Larry
 
Let's face the facts. Time has moved on since the Spanish thought this was a good idea. These days handgun ammo in a manually cycled gun just is not something that any military or law enforcement groups are going to consider. It would be comparable to the Spanish back then giving up their Destroyers for cap lock muzzle loaders.

So that leaves us with guns of this sort being just a product for sport and hobbyist shooters. And given the mass market focus on AR style military looking rifles in 5.56 the remaining market that wants semi auto pistol caliber guns is a splinter group of relatively small size. And already many of those are just putting new uppers on their black rifle lowers.

This pistol caliber carbine market is then going to be further split by the fact that there's a good supply of used and new semi auto carbines out there.

And let's face facts again. MOST folks that are looking for a gun to shoot semi auto pistol ammo will want the carbine to shoot in semi auto mode. So the group looking for a manual repeater style gun is going to be rather scarce. And a dozen or so folks in a thread like this saying "I want one! ! !" is not the sort of thing that fills a maker with confidence.

And that would be why there isn't already such a rifle on the shelves.

For those of us that want to shoot something of this sort I suspect that there is enough old Destroyers in decent enough shape to fill this niche.
 
I think one of these would be great fun at the range and could do double duty as a truck gun or even for home defense.

What do you think? Any interest in something like that?

Not for a home defense gun. Can't imagine why anyone would choose a bolt action for home defense. I do think there would be a market for more bolt action PCR's, primarily in states where they are allowed for deer hunting. Here in Ohio we just got certain PCR's legalized for deer this year. I know they're legal in Indiana as well and I would think at least a couple other states. As far as I know the only bolt action options available are the Ruger 77/44 and 77/357. Be nice to see a few more available out there at a lower price bracket.
 
In a blowback the hip ointment guns would be a good option, but the stocks are utter garbage. If they shoot well though it would be nice...mine shot crazy though, like it was throwing a screwball. It went right a bit out to about 30 yards then back to the left. If it had shot better I would have kept it. With a aftermarket stock it felt and looked good, but still shot crazy.
 
Wouldn't it be great if there was an easy to build and well supported center fire platform other than an AR? I could see a short action receiver with easily swappable bolts and barrels, mags with a standard outside shape but internals for different calibers. Or maybe bolt on adapters to use readily available magazines. D&T for a rail on top for optics, iron sights could follow the barrels. Like a TC contender, but bolt action.
A T/C Dimension :)

I have one, it's one of the most accurate rifles I own. AFAIK, no one other than T/C makes barrels, and only in the more common rifle rounds (204 ruger through 300 win mag). I'm hoping (but skeptical) that the Dimension catches on, barrel changes are a five minute job and it returns right to zero after installing the barrel.

For HD I'd buy a PS90. Low recoil, super compact, lightweight, not too much noise/flash, 50 rounds on board, useable by my wife, and 420+ ft-lbs from the 16" barrel.
 
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