A Rant In Progress.....

[BruceRDucer]

/

*ISSUE THE FIRST*

I think respecting the tools is a step towards using them better.---Dave McCracken

It is a valid point. Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge.

Good point McCracken. You are doing your job.

____________________________________________

**ISSUE THE SECOND**

]"...a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load."----Dave McCracken

Again, you are doing your job, providing leadership ethics. I agree with this, because not only can people be injured, it violates the bond of trust which should exist between INSTRUCTOR / STUDENT if not FRIENDS & FAMILY.

Besides, it is a proverbialism that MEAN PEOPLE SUCK.

The ethic is especially important for a website, that encourages and desires membership. Otherwise, it seems that the idea is to laugh at and ridicule the general public and Novice shooters. Any attitude like that can virtually kill a website outright.

You know, we met a guy at the annual get-together, who had been lurking for several years, and never posted. I wonder if this indicates how sensitive some people can be, to the possibilities of being ridiculed for your grammar, your lack of knowledge, or just being thought badly of by "rounders" who do nothing but look "down" on you for posting a question, etc.

Good gripes, McCracken, and absolutely Top Drawer.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

The wrong vote or no vote can leave us bitterly clinging to our religions, because we sure as heck may not get to cling to our guns.

Way ahead of you.

I'd also like to add that voting third party is just as bad as not voting at all.

Detest 3" magnum "funny tricks

+1

Or shooting gangster style at a 90 degree cant.

+10

 

[MMCSRET]

Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology. I own and use a number of shotguns, but none of them well and it is not the guns fault!!!!

 

[Leadhead]

What really pisses me off is people who insist on being different then me!
I mean they like different music, books, guns,words etc....why can't we all be the same?



Actually, I try not to get upset by external factors..... I got enough internal crap to deal with.....but I don't like the sound of "shottie" either it seems to be a mix of shi ty and potty which are not terms I would use to describe any of my shotguns.

 

[Athanasius]

Jimbothefifth

does this include the primary elections? I live in a guarenteed mccain state. I'm thinking about writing in ron paul as a kind of silent rebellion. I still say the media didn't do many of the candidates justice and is run by big money.... which runs the govt.

 

[Hollywood Marine]

Sheez, you miss a geezer shoot and get all grouchy on us. Any way, good post Dave, I'm with you 110%

 

[boomvark]

Originally posted by Dave McCracken:
[...] two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

Ooohh, now that is canonical rant fodder. From what I've seen on YouTube and various forums, there are more than a few such people. Nobody has ever pulled this crap in front of me in my adult life, though, and it's just as well; I might very well go off on him (verbally!) right then and there.

<rant mode="TMI">
I have personal reasons for this reaction: My dad did the same thing to me, but in a deliberate effort to kill my interest in shooting. Magnum 00 buck in an old H&R Topper 158 12-gauge is no fun for a good-sized adult; for a decidedly runty 12-year-old, it borders on child abuse. The look on his face when I insisted on shooting up the rest of the 5-pack was priceless (and practically indescribable). It took a week to get over the pain, and the bruises lasted longer. It took six months of serious work to get over the flinch. But the long-term satisfaction--and being mostly left alone for the duration--was worth every bit of that.
</rant>

BTW, I still have that shotgun, and take particular pleasure in shooting it. With the right loads, it really isn't half bad for singles trap.

Originally posted by Sunray:
"...ad nauseam..." It's ad nauseum, but I'll still hold 'em for ya'll.

That's what the vast majority of people in the English-speaking world seem to think, but ... no. It really is "ad nauseam".

http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~econrad/lang/lphrase.html

And just to show this isn't uniquely a US quirk:
http://latin-phrases.co.uk/dictionary/a/

Anyone who wants to can have hours of fun with either one of those sources, and incidentally acquire enough gratuitous Latin to make people leave him alone at parties he really didn't want to attend in the first place.

 

[plumberroy]

Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

If the perpetrators didn't want their loved ones to shoot, they could just have refused to take them.

Doing this to a begainner is unacceptable,
doing it to a smart-ass-know-it-all is fun Heck I'll even go first sometimes (most 300# hillbillies aren;t recoil sensitive)
McCain08
Palin 2012
Roy

 

[Flyboy]

We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?

Based on what I've seen so far, fingers.

Rant on, Dave.

 

[torpid]

The by-product of a society where language skills, spelling, and word craftsmanship have been relegated to abbreviation's, spell check, and one-to-two syllable words.

And, of course, incorrect apostrophe usage.

 

[PJR]

Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology.

Up to a point I don't disagree but there is a limit. Not everyone shares the same breadth of volcabulary particularly when it comes to shotgun.

I would for example not snub someone who incorrectly used the term "furniture" when describing a gun stock.

 

[torpid]

Being and having become a snob in my own right: I will ignore and even snub a talker that uses slang for these very important implements of history, war , self defense and ultimate pleasure. I do not understand and do not abide this denigration of our terms and terminology.

Well, this thread (and in particular this quoted post) have actually inspired me to be a bit less critical of people's use of slang at the range.

Thanks, I guess.

 

[Chuck Spears]

"So PGO shotguns aren't good for home defense?"

if your not into really really large pistols that are highly difficult to aim and kick like a mule with decent loadings even for us stout strong young fellers......then no

I was just kidding. But as far as calling one a "shotty" I don't really have a problem. I'm sure old men were shaking their fists when some young whippersnappers starting referring to their pantaloons as "pants." Vernacular evolves. Expecting it to stay the same as you've always known it would be vain.

 

[Chuck Spears]

Speak of the devil. Look what I found:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4914794&postcount=85

Go get him!

 

[Loomis]

"I'd also like to add that voting third party is just as bad as not voting at all."


Oh, no, I dissagree. It entirely depends on who their second choice is. If their second pic for prez is a gun grabber, by all means, let them vote third party. And in that case, your phrase "just as bad" can be replaced with "just as good".

 

[conw]

Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge.

How do slang terms suggest hierarchy any more than jargon words, which are usually necessary? Aren't there insiders or outsiders with any hobby or sport? The democratic part should be deciding which you, personally, happen to be.

Plus, I think most people could figure out what a "shotty" is - they'd just be annoyed in the process of doing so.

 

[BruceRDucer]

/

Quote:
We can only wonder what future generations will communicate with?

"Based on what I've seen so far, fingers."---Flyboy

That's PRICELESS Flyboy.

---------------------------------------------------------------

STATEMENT:

"Slang terms are suggestive of an hierarchy, in which there are "insiders" and "outsiders" and it is not indicative of a democratic attitude towards skills or knowledge."---BruceRDucer

QUESTION THE FIRST:

"How do slang terms suggest hierarchy any more than jargon words, which are usually necessary? "-----Conwict



"Plus, I think most people could figure out what a "shotty" is - they'd just be annoyed in the process of doing so." ------Conwict

ANSWER THE FIRST:

I was not familiar with a SHOTTIE when I first got here about 9 months ago. I had to figure out the term.

I do not know that there is a distinction between "jargon" and "slang". It seems that both may be used in the same way.

One identifiable fact however, may the the specific context in which it is used.

For example, in a private conversation concerning a firearm, two acquaintances may use either slang or jargon with equal familiarity, and there is no identifiable negative impact, because it is private.

A public forum is a different matter. It is entirely public, not private, and language can be used to create a barrier of separation between the general public who visits, and people who know each other, and know the subject they discuss.

-------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION THE SECOND:

"Aren't there insiders or outsiders with any hobby or sport?"-----Conwict

ANSWER THE SECOND:

Yes there certainly are.

But we may well ask if it is the policy of this particular forum to distinguish in a prejudicial way, a clear distinction by way of jargon or slang between "insiders or outsiders".


Any public forum, and especially one which espouses a specific advocacy, such as Second Amendment Rights, Firearms Safety, Concealed Carry issues, and arguments about increased Gun Control will want to ENLARGE, rather than DIMINISH its client base.

Such a public forum will most benefit by policies which draw mainstream citizens into its fold, rather than offer messages which suggest that only users of "insider" jargon are welcome, and the rest can stay or go as they choose, and the owner/operator/moderators don't care one way or the other.

Therefore, if the forum and the general public and firearms owners can benefit by a more informed public, it will best serve the interests to have as many of the general public as possible feel welcome, so that they might join us in advocating the Right To Keep And Bear Arms. If the generally uninformed public does not feel welcome, or cannot identify with other forum users in plain language, they may very well decline to participate, and even to adopt the opposite point of view.

This can be particularly so if they feel that forum "insiders" are actually thoughtless thugs, who are all too happy to spray lead, or arcane language which excludes them from a common purpose and a common fellowship.

___________________________________________

QUESTION THE THIRD:


"The democratic part should be deciding which you, personally, happen to be."------Conwict

I would exercise personal caution about that, because it is in finality, an absolute value.

In public forums and public affairs, it is far wiser to always be diplomatic, and I would not pursue an advocacy that the critical distinction is whether the general public can be compelled to decide whether they are part of an "insider or outsider" group.


If group identification is merely to be established on the basis of a willingness or unwillingness to adopt jargon or slang, then we might well look to ghetto culture, where slang provides a quick and easy acceptance, and readily excludes all persons who use language that is generally appropriate and generally acceptable.

I might have my own THANG; but if such slang causes people to eschew my company in a public forum, or to feel alienated from my "insider" group's ethics or values, then I've contributed to the feeling that people who advocate RK&BA [Right to Keep & Bear Arms] only wish to associate with their own kind, and worse, do not share common values with the rest of society.

It is much better Conwict, to make as many people as possible, feel that we are in every way just everyday working people, who care about human life, the property and feelings of others, and who propose Self Defense in the most responsible manner possible.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks for the responses, folks. I DO feel a bit better.

Mising a Geezer shoot wasn't the cause. This has been building a while.

"Shotty" does bug me, though Chevy and Mossie do not. Maybe I like and respect them too much to feel the term is appropriate.

And, my Webster's Unabridged says it's ad nauseam. So there....

Back to "Shotty". If you use the term in my presence I shan't cast the first stone. The term jars me a bit, but I'm full grown and expect less than complete conformity to my wishes in the world. If a newbie uses it, so be it.

Louts, on the other hand, I'm less inclined to tolerate as I age. And those who pull stunts like these mentioned are, plain and simple, an enemy to us and ours.

Maybe as much as Sarah Brady.

As to voting, I've been doing it for a while, like 1968. I would like to have a presidential election once in my life where I didn't feel as if I had to choose the lesser of two evils. But then I'm an idealist.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

"though Chevy and Mossie do not"



Thanks for letting the new guy get his feet wet.



I even gave the wife managed recoil target loads for her first shotti..... Er..... Shotgun shoot. She knocked off 5 in a row to my surprise, didnt come no where near the birds, but it was a good start.



.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Yo, D-bizzle! Why the hate, dawg? I just love takin' my shotty out, droppin' a maggnum in da chamber and handin's it to shorty. Shoot, dawg! Her shoulder be black and blizzue 4 dayz!

All kidding aside: I do not think Obama is a Muslim (and I don't consider being Muslim a bad thing). I do not think he is stupid or evil or out to defile the Constitution. I do think he is a left-winger and a product of one of the most corrupt political environments in the country. I believe he is beholden to traditional liberal interests, namely organized labor and feel-good nanny-staters, and that he sees the Second Amendment as not only expendable but primative. I think he will do whatever the American people will allow him to get away with should he get elected, and that if that happens, we need to be very conscious of what that entails.

But all is not lost, even if Obama gets elected. Congress just has to know that there are lines you don't cross, and there are many Democrats who, while they may not personally give a damn about gun rights, know that their constituents do. Instead of throwing up our hands and stocking up on primers if Obama wins, we need to double the pressure on our elected representatives in congress. There will be no new AWB if the "red state Democrats" stand their ground against the party leadership and represent their people honestly.

 

[Thernlund]

If you use the term in my presence I shan't cast the first stone. The term jars me a bit, but I'm full grown and expect less than complete conformity to my wishes in the world. If a newbie uses it, so be it.

Well Dave, was going to respond to your original "shotty" rant with , but given the above, I will go with .

Words are just words. People give them power. Besides, every word, no matter what it is, can be useful in the proper context.


-T.

 

[GigaBuist]

First, and least, is folks who refer to their shotguns as "Shotties".

This also annoys me. The term, as somebody else already mentioned, has been popularized by the Halo series of games. Nothing about the weapons in the game resemble reality, so I immediately dump anybody using the term into the "uninformed" category. Much like folks that use the term "Deagle" when talking about a Desert Eagle. Counterstrike is to blame for that one.

Next, a couple secondhand stories have reached me about two incidents where a lout was teaching a loved one how to shoot, and handed them a magnum load. This, of course, knocked in one case a woman and in another a teen aged son silly. Both louts regarded this as great fun.

I'm guilty of that... sorta. I let my uncle shoot a Vaquero in .44 Mag after watching me shoot a full cylinder of Magtech .44 Mag from it. Thing was, I loaded the 1st 5 cylinders with .44SPL Winchester Cowboy loads and only one real .44 Mag when I handed it to him. He got real complacent with that thing, and by the 6th cylinder he was shooting one handed. He didn't hurt himself, which was never my goal, but his eyes sure did get real big and wide.

He had it coming. You'll have to trust me on this one.

 

[GRB]

Well it does not get my upset, but it concerns me that all too many voters are one issue voters. I do not vote based upon the RKBA alone, that would be ludicrous and a waste of my vote in many cases. That you do not like it - well tough noogies with all due respect. When I vote I try to base my decision on whom I beleive to be the best candidate to serve the people based upon multiple issues and the RKBA may not be the end all be all of my decision making process when I cast my vote. Sure it is important, it is simply not the pivotal issue in all elections.

 

[conw]

Bruce, quite fair.

I didn't mean to sound disagreeable; in fact, I do get the gist of what you meant. But jargon is terminology outside the colloquy that applies to a specific endeavor (hobby, sport, profession, technology, etc). The way our language evolves, there is often a very blurry line between colloquy, jargon, and slang.

10-15 years ago, "ISP" would have miffed most people, as would "LOL" or "BRB." But now they're pretty much accepted aspects of our language (unless someone specifically avoids the internet - in which case they are placing themselves outside the great majority of living persons in our culture).

I don't understand a lot of reloading jargon, for example, or military jargon that is used on here, but I can pursue it if I desire to (and believe me, I'm thankful for the resources on here that allow me to).

Anyway, I agree for the most part. I just think that for personal edification it's always a good idea to take a look at what you consider "normal" language, "slang," and why you consider them such. Before you know it, you might be saying the same thing in a few years.

Except for "shotty" of course

 

[Dave McCracken]

Shotty may become common usage, there's more video gamers these days that shotgunners. But I don't have to like it.

Acronyms don't irk me, I grew up right after WWII, when stuff like ASAP, FUBAR and SNAFU became common.

Raggio, well meaning idiots can do more damage than purely evil people sometimes. Manson killled a handful,the folks behind the AWB may have killed hundreds.

The IL political machine has been in more pockets than a buffalo nickel.

I always find it hard to completely support any candidate. I'm pro choice and education,anti big goverment,(yeah, I recognize the conflict) a lifetime registered Dem and a vehement supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. I term myself a Jeffersonian Democrat.

Ever see the Jefferson Memorial? As I recall, around the rim of the ceiling inside is written.....

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of Man "....

That's been a personal motto for close to 50 years....