A red Dot a Laser, or neither on a Carry gun?

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NO add on equipment, except quality Night Sites, and then that's just to make you feel good. Almost all defensive shooting situations take place at less that 20 feet. In truth, you probably will not even try to place your sights on target. You, as most do, will point and shoot. many will not agree, but it really is what it is!
 
I think that if you were to go with something other then night sights the Crimson Trace lasergrips would be your best bet.
Practice does not make one perfect, but good practice will make one better. The one thing you can't simulate is a real shootout. Things change when your target is no longer paper. Fine motor skills are difficult under stress. The more you have to do to get your gun into play, the harder it will be on you.
When it comes to new things for guns, remember that there will always be something new. Most just end up being fads, only a few stay around.
I keep my carry guns simple because, if I have to use them, l will have more important things to worry about then the things on my guns.
 
I used to think such things were gimmicks and not really useful. They are not. I prefer a mounted light, but have not found an acceptable way to carry concealed with one. They are on my home defense guns and when traveling or camping on guns kept on hotel night stands or in the tent. When carried they have to come off. Most of my guns also have night sights.

I don't see any practical way to use a dot sight either.

But many lasers are compact enough to fit in the grips or other places where they don't get in the way. At fairly close range 5-10 yards they can be VERY effective and allow you to shoot from positions impossible without them. Since they are usually mounted well below and often to one side of the bore they don't hit point of aim at longer ranges. I zero the laser at about 7-8 yards. Beyond about 10-12 yards the laser will point several inches above and to the right of where the bullet will impact. At least with my gun which has the laser below the bore and on the left grip.

It doesn't mean they are the only way to go, but are one more tool in the toolbox. If the batteries die you still have sights.
 
I just put a dot on a target pistol, first one. It would take too much time to find the dot in a stressful situation, for me anyway. Great for tiny little groups at 25 yards but picking a guy off across the street isn't my idea of a self defense shooting. I'll be looking for cover if I have that much room.

I've never owned a laser but I've shot a pistol with one. That would seem to me to be a good solution for poor eyesight. With the laser in the grip or hung on a rail the night sights would still be usable in a pinch. I train every week with regular sights and feel comfortable using those at 15 yards.

I like the dot I put on my target pistol but I don't carry that one. It's a range toy.
 
My vision is extremely poor in low light conditions and at night. I wear corrective lenses but can't wear contacts. Wearing glasses while I sleep isn't an option but the Lasermax red laser attached to my night stand LCR .327 is. I see that red dot just fine without my specs.
For my CC handgun, which is usually a J frame or some other type of lightweight, I prefer just what the manufacturer had in the box. Custom hand grips being the exception.
I have a toolbox full of lasers, lights, strobes, sights and grips that I mix and match on firearms that reside in my safe and are mostly dedicated for range use. I rarely keep the same setup on those firearms for long and enjoy swapping out accessories when the mood strikes. My PMR 30 has seen half a dozen combinations of lights, lasers & red dots in the three years I've owned it.
 
NO add on equipment, except quality Night Sites, and then that's just to make you feel good. Almost all defensive shooting situations take place at less that 20 feet. In truth, you probably will not even try to place your sights on target. You, as most do, will point and shoot. many will not agree, but it really is what it is!
I'm in this camp. Take the money you would spend on the extras, find the gun that points most naturally for you in rapid point/shoot exercises, and if that isn't your current carry, trade yours in and spend the extra to get the one that works best for you.
 
Neither. Instead learn to shoot, go to the range often, and practice good techniques. That will do more than any combination of 'gizmos'.

My carry guns have a light, laser, or both on them when they are being carried. Whenever I go to the range, half the rounds are fired with the laser off and the rest on. Using a laser is not a lazy attempt at not using sights. It adds to the training value. And the usefulness of a weapon. If I had to draw quickly from a holster and make a shot where I could not use the sights, the laser sure would be handy. A laser on a handgun also helps show how much "bounce" you have in your hand.

To answer the question, a laser is a good idea. Night sights also a good idea. Red dot is a little over the top on a carry gun.
 
Agree with neither. I never understood night sights on a CCW weapon. You must identify your assailant as a mortal threat. I carry a quality LED flashlight and practice point shooting. 99.9% of SD engagements will be under 7 yards, you focus on the target, draw, point (NOT aim) and fire. You have 1.5 seconds. Devote the time to learn point shooting. Chasing a laser dot, or acquiring a 1mm glowing night sight is distracting and wastes time.
 
That applies to all sights.
At typical "self defense" distances it won't be off enough to matter

Yes, but we're dealing with common misconceptions, here. There are
a lot of unfortunate souls who feel that gizmos are a substitute for practice.
They also think scopes and lazers are magic accuracy enhancers, and don't
even bother to zero them, let alone practice regularly.
 
I like a laser. Generally I mount it, sight it in at a long distance like say 35+ yards. When you do that in normal practice ranges you never see the dot as it is well below your sights. Not sitting on top them like many put it.

So basically put it on and train as usual, forget about the laser unless the rare occasion comes up where u need it, generally this would be a long shot which coincidentally is what it's sighted for.

As has been mentioned the average self defense shooting doesn't even require sights, much less add on's. The odds that anything other than having the gun will matter is very, very low. We spend entirely to much time thinking about these things that have a fraction of a percentage of a chance of ever mattering.
 
I'm not a fan of lasers. Motorcyclists should be familiar with the term "target fixation". In a self-defense situation, the shooter is likely to fixate on the dot, and not watching the target's hands. That will get you killed.

I had a laser on one pistol. Ended up mostly using it to play with my cats.
 
I'm waiting for the day that collapsible red dot's hit the market. At that point it might make sense to carry one, but until then I'm happy with irons.
 
None of the above. A CCW pistol is usually an up close and personal thing. Less things you are going to need to fumble with, the better.
 
Learn trigger control and indexing (as in a form of 'stance') and you will find the laser quite unnecessary. In fact the laser is no good (as are sights) UNTIL you learn trigger control. And if you have a good index and trigger control you can shoot quite fast and accurately with any form of sight usage like flash sight picture, front sight focus, shooting out of the notch, etc...) Even hip shooting is very dependent on index and trigger control.

BTW I do use a laser mounted on a softair Glock (internally) just to enhance my hip shooting

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and one on a J frame S&W 640-1 for the same reason. Not like I don't know anything about lasers.

Index and trigger control. That is the answer. Those that think lasers are the answer are, well, deluded.

Deaf
 
IR lasers are handy with night vision, although I'd put one on a carbine, not a pistol. Visible lasers are useless to me except maybe a J-frame revolver.

Red dots are fine for one pistol. Try 'em and see if you like it. More of a home defense pistol kind of thing than something I'd carry anywhere. But some people do.

A Surefire XC1 is always on my nightime setup Glock 23.
 
Oh my oh my oh my... I really enjoy the "Git gud" posts. "Night sights are useless because you can't see your targets" is a nice touch too. Claiming that it takes too long to pick up the dot is also very nice.

It looks like some people have decided to defend their own personal choice in sighting options without fully exploring or understanding how other options work.

Yes, night sights will not help you when it is pitch black, any more than other options will work. Not because of a short fall of night sights, but because it's pitch black. If it's pitch black and you can't see your target, night sights won't help, awesome point shooting technique won't help, John Wick levels of Center Axis Relock shooting won't help. Then again, I have yet to see a gun fight in pitch black lighting conditions where one party didn't bring NODs. Burglars still need to see too. They aren't cats.

Laser. Poor poor misunderstood lasers. Lasers, just like weapon mounted lights, have to be one of the most misunderstood and poorly trained items out there. The laser is not for sweeping around the room, watching the red dot where ever it wonders. And, here's a heresy to every who has ever received training... Stop focusing on the front sight. Present the gun, pop the laser to verify point of aim, pull the trigger. If you are target focused instead of front sight focused you will acquire the dot instantly.... unless your target is wearing a suit made of red LEDs. If you are having problems with the laser being on target after your presentation, you aren't working your natural point of aim and need to practice your presentation yet. Target focus and picking up the laser will be faster than going with front sight focus and trying to get a good sight picture when the light is bad.

Red dots aren't what they were 10 years ago or even five years ago. Modern red dots are compact, durable and have ridiculous battery life. Again, sacrilege. Forget front sight focus. Target focus, dot on target, pull trigger. My times with the red dot are much faster than my times with iron sights. If you have trouble acquiring the red dot you need more time developing your presentation and are looking for the dot instead of keeping your eyes on the target and getting the gun between you two. Start working on bringing the gun in front of your eyes instead of looking for the gun. My dots battery lasts a year and has an autodim. It just gets left on. I change the battery every six months just in case.

That said, I still have irons on my duty carry firearm. I'm confident in that red dot, I'm just not stand out in the rain all day long confident in it. I have no qualms about carrying it concealed. I honestly think that people need to re-evaluate the state of modern red dots and put some serious hands on time training with them before they declare them a gimmick. Red Dots have seen a lot of maturity in the last couple of years.
 
I'm not a fan of lasers. Motorcyclists should be familiar with the term "target fixation". In a self-defense situation, the shooter is likely to fixate on the dot, and not watching the target's hands. That will get you killed.

I had a laser on one pistol. Ended up mostly using it to play with my cats.

Training. Many have had red dots on their rifles for years and "target fixation" isn't an issue if you train to shoot with both eyes open. It's no different than "target fixation" on the front sight. I have thousands and thousands of rounds behind a red dot on a rifle and have never stumbled upon this issue except with new shooters. Tell them, "hey, both eyes open!" and it's fixed.

Our team is moving to RMR's on our Glocks. If it's good enough for a primary weapon it's good enough for our secondary as well. My only concern is I'll like the damn thing so much I'll have to outfit 4 of my off-duty Glocks with them. Which means new taller sights and holsters to accommodate.

I don't feel like I need one, but they sure do help my splits when running drills, and the timer doesn't lie. I'm still confident enough in passing our quals with irons if need be.
 
I carry a stock Ruger LCP or an SP101, both have factory sights.
Only modification has been a set of pachmayr grips on the SP101 and a pocketclip on the LCP. My HD pistol did have a white light attached but I removed it because it didn't fit the holster I had for it. My HD shotgun does have a white light attached to the mag tube.
 
Your chances of being hit by lightning are higher than being killed in a terrorist attack. That said I'm very confident that a revolver will be enough for the SD issues I need to address. Yes, I do carry a 15 Rd 9mm at times and do prefer it for certain situations.

No laser or red dot for me. I like simplicity. Night sights are a great add on but that's about it.
 
Agree with neither. I never understood night sights on a CCW weapon. You must identify your assailant as a mortal threat. I carry a quality LED flashlight and practice point shooting. 99.9% of SD engagements will be under 7 yards, you focus on the target, draw, point (NOT aim) and fire. You have 1.5 seconds. Devote the time to learn point shooting. Chasing a laser dot, or acquiring a 1mm glowing night sight is distracting and wastes time.
Do you practice drawing your flashlight when you draw your gun? If so you are a very small minority. There are things that contradict in your statement. If you can't shoot without identifying your targets how are you going to draw and shoot in 1.5 seconds.

There have been a lot of cop cam shootings in the dark. When they draw even if they have flashlight on their gun they don't turn it on. They don't draw a flashlight with the gun. They go to the gun because they are in danger and need a gun. How did they know they were in danger and needed a gun? There was enough visible light that they could see they were in danger. Which is generally the case. If there isn't enough light to do this, then you don't draw, you lose and the point about identifying the target is moot. If you don't live in the country there is generally a lot of light around: parking lot lights, vehicle light from traffic, house lights, street lights and the like.

What I think is if you have good situational awareness and sense the threat coming you bring the gun up and acquire the sights and use them.

If you are behind the situation you start taking short cuts and cut your presentation down and don't acquire your sights, you may shoot with only one hand, not a criticism, you do what you got to do. I don't think its a good idea to assume you will always be ahead or always behind.

I think point shooting, lasers, red dots, iron sights are only aiming systems. Aiming is probably the least important aspect of shooting a hand gun. I think you need to learn the fundamentals of shooting first and then worry about how you are going to aim.

I carried with a laser for several years. Probably well over 10,000 rounds shooting with one and as many just dry firing.

For me it was like this from the draw: When you draw with a laser your pretty much point shooting at first, then the laser dot is there tracking to the target it doesn't just suddenly appear, the laser is on as your gun comes up so its a moving red dot its something bright and moving your eyes naturally notice it, there is no searching or looking for it. But you are not focusing on it, your focusing on the target but your aware it is there. Your brain is processing it in the background. The gun stopped regardless of the laser, it stops because of hand and eye coordination which means the laser dot is probably within inches of where your eye thinks it will be and its not a surprise, its been moving there during the whole process of the draw and presentation. You then shoot or move the dot. The dot was more about confirmation than aiming. The same process essentially as the process of a flash sight picture.
 
Laser only slowed me down in my night house training. Stopwatch and targets don't lie.

It didn't improve my aim or my point shooting. Skip the RDS and laser, get an XC1 and get to your local Pistol 5 and Pistol 6 classes. If you like lasers for some situations after that, so be it. But people using lasers as a crutch are in for a rude awakening. But if you have a pistol with a laser and RDS, bring it.

Pretty sure these guys can help ya'll out:
https://tdiohio.com/level-vi-handgun/
 
Night sights on my carry gun. I do have a laser on my S&W Bodyguard 380 which I bought for pocket carry in the summer. The laser was on the gun already.
 
Red dot?
Maybe.
If I can conceal it okay. Slide mounted ones get loose if you shoot them a lot. Remember that they are constantly moving forwards/backwards.

Laser?
Nope.
Takes too long to find the dot out there and they get outta whack way to easily.

I'll stick to the night sights and practicing finding that front sight in a hurry.
 
I often carry a Sig 320C .45 with a crimson Trace laser, especially at night, because the old MK1 eyeballs don't work like they used to.

 
Perhaps a red dot when they get a smidge smaller. I usually carry duty size or compact so a little more size won't worry me.

Lasers haven't really been necessary for mw in the past, and with my colorblind eyes they would only be useful in low light, and I carry a flashlight for those situations.

Would I rip off some CT grips if a gun I bought happened to have them, nah, I'd probably just try to train em, but I'm not going to spend extra $$ on them.

Instead I'll spend that $$ on ammo to dial in my point shooting more, or keep it current at minimum.
 
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