MedWheeler
Member
I had indeed forgotten to mention the rimlock issue Weblance covers. His load-up is the same as mine. First two up are WWB flat-tips, and the rest are FMJ (Fiocchi, in my case.)
A thread about .32 acp
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Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I have a 500 round box of the 75 grain Rim Rock .313 flat nose hard cast bullets that Buffalo Bore uses in their rounds....I'm gonna hand load some of my own and see what happens before I move on to more potent 94 grain flat points. 
A few weeks ago my Wife and I were shooting our 1903's at the indoor range right next to a couple who were breaking in their Beretta Tomcat. They were shooting Winchester flat nose hardball and having one hell of a time getting more than 2 or 3 rounds without FTE or FTF - they were very inexperienced and I was helping them clear the gun every 3 minutes.
I let 'em shoot my 95 year old Model M and she asked where she could get one as she liked it a lot better, shot better with it, and it fed the same Winchester flat nose flawlessly. We traded ammo to get her thru the session (my Wife's suggestion...) and we took 50 rounds of Winchester for 50 rounds of S&B 73 grain hardball. They had no problems with the S&B and we had no problems with the Winchester.
Dunno if it was teething trouble with the Tomcat or limp wristing or just bad luck but that Tomcat *did not* like Winchester 73 grain FMJ flat points one little bit.:banghead:
VooDoo
A few weeks ago my Wife and I were shooting our 1903's at the indoor range right next to a couple who were breaking in their Beretta Tomcat. They were shooting Winchester flat nose hardball and having one hell of a time getting more than 2 or 3 rounds without FTE or FTF - they were very inexperienced and I was helping them clear the gun every 3 minutes.
I let 'em shoot my 95 year old Model M and she asked where she could get one as she liked it a lot better, shot better with it, and it fed the same Winchester flat nose flawlessly. We traded ammo to get her thru the session (my Wife's suggestion...) and we took 50 rounds of Winchester for 50 rounds of S&B 73 grain hardball. They had no problems with the S&B and we had no problems with the Winchester.
Dunno if it was teething trouble with the Tomcat or limp wristing or just bad luck but that Tomcat *did not* like Winchester 73 grain FMJ flat points one little bit.:banghead:
VooDoo
The Tomcat does not like the flat nose winchesters. They are however one of the few brands that the Seecamp prefers. With most hollowpoints and round nose shells the Tomcat will feed very reliably. I shot several hundreds of rounds through one about 8 or 9 years ago, but traded the gun after I read about alot of durability issues. However, apperently the Stainless (Inox) Tomcat fixed that problem and they are very well built guns. Cost is an issue when you can find a good one though. The P3 is cheap and it eats everything for the most part unless you get a lemon. However, from what I hear they will always make it right. I beleive I read somewhere that the WWB flat nose shells were kind of made for the seecamps. There are only about 4 or 5 brands reccomended to shoot through them and WWB is one of them. I don't have any knowledge of the older larger 32 acp guns, but I have tested and studied the pocket pistols quite a bit. Buffalo Bore is awesome for the guns. I don't know if it will run in the seecamp or not.I have a 500 round box of the 75 grain Rim Rock .313 flat nose hard cast bullets that Buffalo Bore uses in their rounds....I'm gonna hand load some of my own and see what happens before I move on to more potent 94 grain flat points.
A few weeks ago my Wife and I were shooting our 1903's at the indoor range right next to a couple who were breaking in their Beretta Tomcat. They were shooting Winchester flat nose hardball and having one hell of a time getting more than 2 or 3 rounds without FTE or FTF - they were very inexperienced and I was helping them clear the gun every 3 minutes.
I let 'em shoot my 95 year old Model M and she asked where she could get one as she liked it a lot better, shot better with it, and it fed the same Winchester flat nose flawlessly. We traded ammo to get her thru the session (my Wife's suggestion...) and we took 50 rounds of Winchester for 50 rounds of S&B 73 grain hardball. They had no problems with the S&B and we had no problems with the Winchester.
Dunno if it was teething trouble with the Tomcat or limp wristing or just bad luck but that Tomcat *did not* like Winchester 73 grain FMJ flat points one little bit.:banghead:
VooDoo
usp9
Member
I shoot mine single handed unless I'm shooting at distances greater than 50 yards, then I do a modified weaver stance. Seriously... one could maybe "teacup" a Seecamp, but it's pretty much a one hand, two finger gun.
Phantom Captain
Member
I carry Buffalo Bore 75grain HCFN +P in my .32 PPK and the same Buffalo Bore HCFN +P .380 in my PPK/s.
The PPK is my summer gun mostly, a touch flatter and lighter and I feel fine with carrying it wearing shorts, the PPK/s is for everything else. I love my carry guns. I'm a complete Walther guy though, I own six (PP, PPK, PPK/s, P-38, P5 and P99AS). I'm a HUGE fan of the PPK and PPK/s and carry them always.
I am completely comfortable with the BB defensive carry rounds. I think they are the perfect answer for the smaller guns. I don't like HPs in my PPK or PPK/s and regular FMJs are too rounded (however I would carry the Fiocchis if I had to in a pinch, they are certainly hotter than American made stuff). I know the BB will penetrate and do the job.
The PPK is my summer gun mostly, a touch flatter and lighter and I feel fine with carrying it wearing shorts, the PPK/s is for everything else. I love my carry guns. I'm a complete Walther guy though, I own six (PP, PPK, PPK/s, P-38, P5 and P99AS). I'm a HUGE fan of the PPK and PPK/s and carry them always.
I am completely comfortable with the BB defensive carry rounds. I think they are the perfect answer for the smaller guns. I don't like HPs in my PPK or PPK/s and regular FMJs are too rounded (however I would carry the Fiocchis if I had to in a pinch, they are certainly hotter than American made stuff). I know the BB will penetrate and do the job.
mr.trooper
Member
My main gripe with 32acp is that its difficult to find a proper sized pistol to shoot it from.
Everyone is making these sub-sub-compact flea weight pistols for it. Bring on the Walther PP (no 'K' need apply), and the Savage 1910, and Remington 51. The Beretta Jaguar and the like were the last proper sized guns produced in 32acp until the Bersa came along.
Everyone is making these sub-sub-compact flea weight pistols for it. Bring on the Walther PP (no 'K' need apply), and the Savage 1910, and Remington 51. The Beretta Jaguar and the like were the last proper sized guns produced in 32acp until the Bersa came along.
IMHO, the Walther PP is just right for 32. Though sadly not made anymore, their long use as a police sidearm in Europe has resulted in a good number of used ones being available. The prices are rising, I've noticed, but they can still be had for not much more than half the price of a German-built PPK.
I would really like a Colt 1903 hammerless sometime, my other pick for most attractive 32.
Phantom Captain
Member
I LOVE my Manurhin PP. It's a 1971 Swedish police surplus.
The trigger is probably the nicest of all my Walthers, just smooth as butter. It's also ridiculously accurate. All around just an awesome pistol. I carry the PPK and PPK/s though because they are just that much smaller. Plus since my PP is police surplus it has the ring for a lanyard at the bottom of the grip. Makes it slightly less comfortable to carry.
Awesome gun.
The trigger is probably the nicest of all my Walthers, just smooth as butter. It's also ridiculously accurate. All around just an awesome pistol. I carry the PPK and PPK/s though because they are just that much smaller. Plus since my PP is police surplus it has the ring for a lanyard at the bottom of the grip. Makes it slightly less comfortable to carry.
Awesome gun.
USAF_Vet
Member
I'm sorta interested in toying with the .32 ACP. But, I'm not a fan of mouse guns. I've been waiting to see a Skorpion come up on the used market when I happen to have cash in my pocket.
The Keltec P32 is sort of appealing also, though I can't really imagine carrying one in lieu or, or in addition to, one of my 9mm guns.
The Skorpion is more of a range toy and rather expensive plinker than a serious carry or SD/HD weapon.
It would be an interesting platform for a barrel swap and stock addition to make a legal Skorpion carbine, which would be a lot of fun.
The Keltec P32 is sort of appealing also, though I can't really imagine carrying one in lieu or, or in addition to, one of my 9mm guns.
The Skorpion is more of a range toy and rather expensive plinker than a serious carry or SD/HD weapon.
It would be an interesting platform for a barrel swap and stock addition to make a legal Skorpion carbine, which would be a lot of fun.
Cocked & Locked
Member
.32 autos....
The Kel Tec is carried daily by my wife and has been for several years.
The Colt is well worn in appearance but is a fun and accurate shooter. Feels great in my hand.
The Llama works great and has never malfunctioned that I recall. It has been in the family several decades. My oldest son has it now.
The NAA Guardian is heavy for size and is a real hand smacker.
The Kel Tec is carried daily by my wife and has been for several years.
The Colt is well worn in appearance but is a fun and accurate shooter. Feels great in my hand.
The Llama works great and has never malfunctioned that I recall. It has been in the family several decades. My oldest son has it now.
The NAA Guardian is heavy for size and is a real hand smacker.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
Gotta love that Colt..thanks for sharing the pix of that one especially! 
You seem to have a broad sampling of .32 ACP pistols and I'd be interested in your opinions on the likes/dislikes of the individual pieces and how they differ from each other in your perspective.
I'm a recent new comer to the .32 ACP and the guns that chamber this round. Never gave it any thought until the first time I laid hands on a Colt 1902 and then shot it. I never knew a gun could be so ergonomic and balanced. Gave me the incentive to read and learn about the .32 ACP and the guns that shoot it.
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My Wife's Colt 1903 built in 1930.
Been an interesting and satisfying experience.
VooDoo
You seem to have a broad sampling of .32 ACP pistols and I'd be interested in your opinions on the likes/dislikes of the individual pieces and how they differ from each other in your perspective.
I'm a recent new comer to the .32 ACP and the guns that chamber this round. Never gave it any thought until the first time I laid hands on a Colt 1902 and then shot it. I never knew a gun could be so ergonomic and balanced. Gave me the incentive to read and learn about the .32 ACP and the guns that shoot it.
My Wife's Colt 1903 built in 1930.
Been an interesting and satisfying experience.
VooDoo
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Cocked & Locked
Member
Are you asking me? If so, or if not, here are my thoughts.
The Colt is the best feeling gun in my hand. Thin and flat with no sharp edges or corners. Easy to carry and shoot but heavy and large by today's definition of concealed carry .32 autos. I feel uneasy carrying the Colt with a round chambered because of how old it is. Some folks say don't carry with a chambered round because the safety is NOT SAFE.
The Kel-Tec seems to fit most folk's definition of a .32 suitable for carry. Inexpensive, surprisingly accurate, light weight, etc., etc. These smack the hand fairly hard when shooting but not as bad as the NAA. I like them. They seem to shoot FMJ and hollow points equally as well.
The Llama seems to be well made but supposedly hard to find parts for these days. It shoots and functions great and is on the heavy side like the 1903 Colt. It is a fun-gun...never carried it and don't recall shooting any ammo other than FMJ in it.
The NAA Guardian is my least favorite. Shoots JHP and FMJ just fine. Seems to be solid and well made. Never any misfires or function problems. Some folks say these are bad to drop the magazine when firing...especially when using the magazine with the finger piece. I've not had that happen.
NAA is big time heavy for the size. Not that comfortable to carry even in a pocket holster. Due to the small size and weight it shifts around too much in my pocket...not comfortable to carry. Not comfortable in my hand due to small size. Not fun to shoot...really a hand smacker. Accurate enough.
I'd rather carry the Kel Tec.
fine looking Colt you have!
TacticsWithPractice
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
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I love my Gardone VT. great for light clothes, and ankle carry. I keep a round similar to glazers in it, as i would think it would be mainly a very close confrontation leading to needing a B/U gun, or if i was without my daily cc.
Good accuracy for a blowback, reliable, and negligible recoil.
Good accuracy for a blowback, reliable, and negligible recoil.
SharpsDressedMan
member
I believe a "Gardone VT" is a Beretta, possibly a Model 70. Some of the older Model 1935's in 7.65 might also be marked Gardone. You'll have to put up a picture. I have a Model 70, and think it is as good as the Colt or Walther PPK, maybe even BETTER!
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First of all.. I'm sure a lot of knowledge and research goes into your choices of firearms.. So please don't imply that anyone here is interested in a certain gun because they saw James Bond use it. In my life I admit I've bought plenty of pairs of sneakers after seeing them worn by a famous athlete, but please don't suggest I would base an important decision like preferred pistol caliber on hollywood movies. Your opinion that James Bond would have carried a 9mm if they made a pocket sized one may have mattered to you when you bought your guns, but I prefer to base my decisions on reality. I do research. I read. O ask other people with experience. That's why this thread is here.
And obviously I realize the .32 isn't a high stopping power round. I pointed that out in the post I started with. I was asking if there was any reason besides it's lack of stopping power that it wasn't a common handgun round. Let me restate the foundation of my beliefs when it comes to modern handguns and concealment:
I used to carry a gun, but I stopped because I found it tedious. I would carry if I had a gun that was more comfortable to carry. With no gun, i have very little stopping power. If I started carrying the smallest caliber handgun on the market, i would be increasing my stopping power by 100%. I see a lot of subcompact pistols on the market that would be very easy to carry concealed, however I find these lightweight guns very unpleasant to shoot, and I would not feel very confident with one if I needed to defend my life with it because i feel the follow up shots would come too slowly and my first shot would be all i'd have. Yes it would be better than no gun, but that's where personal preference comes in. I have to decide how much discomfort I am willing to put up with for a certain level of safety. My problem with most modern pistols(especially living jn MA, where my choices are drastically limited) is this: I want to get a smaller caliber so I can enjoy low recoil not just for self defense, but also for fun at the range. I had a sig p232 in .380. I liked it. I only sold it because i needed money, so my complaints here are not major. However, i feel the .380 is a less than ideal for self defense. In the 232, the round was pretty snappy. So why am I carrying a gun with less stopping power if it's not giving me any advantage in decreased recoil? This is why I don't like that most of the guns available in .32 are tiny. I feel a platform like the sig p232 is perfect for the .32 because despite it's low stopping power, it's significantly lower recoil would be enough of an advantage to meet my personal preferences. Personal preference is what it's all about. I'm not the slightest bit ashamed to say i found the recoil of the .380 to be unpleasant. For some people it's probably the ideal gun.
MedWheeler
Member
Is the Kel-Tec on your state's "good" list? It is a small, flyweight gun, as mentioned, but it's really not that harsh in .32. Add a magazine extension, or use KT's optional ten-round magazine, and the gun carries and holds even more easily.
I'll never disparage someone who carries a .22, let alone a .32 pistol. But, the round does make for expensive plinking. At one time, I would have said get two guns, the KT P32 for carry, and the Taurus PT-22 for training and fun, but I can't honestly say that anymore due to the lack of available (and affordable!) .22LR ammunition.
I'll never disparage someone who carries a .22, let alone a .32 pistol. But, the round does make for expensive plinking. At one time, I would have said get two guns, the KT P32 for carry, and the Taurus PT-22 for training and fun, but I can't honestly say that anymore due to the lack of available (and affordable!) .22LR ammunition.
Vodoun da Vinci
Member
Cocked & Locked: Yup, I was asking you and *Thank You* for your perspective.
The way I understand it, the older Colt 1903's (I have one from 1918 as well) are *not* drop safe - they are very safe with one in the tube due to the grip and the thumb safety as long as they are not dropped.
After 1922, the type III's have an added half cock notch and the same firing pin arrangement as the Colt 1911's and are generally more drop safe. I'd love to say "drop safe" but I do not know this to be true. I *do* know that a gunsmith buddy of mine and I tried to force an impact induced firing with some really beat up Model M's that are not drop safe (pre 1922) and it is near impossible but if it really hits the ground or is impacted on the muzzle very hard it can discharge. I have not been able to get a discharge in a half cock hammered model no matter how I try.
The half cock hammers are available yet as are the additional parts and can be transplanted into the earlier Model M's but I have not done this with my 1918 built Type III.
I intend to carry a Colt 1903 when licensed to do so in Illinois and that carry gun will be of the half cock notch type - a later model type III.
VooDoo
The way I understand it, the older Colt 1903's (I have one from 1918 as well) are *not* drop safe - they are very safe with one in the tube due to the grip and the thumb safety as long as they are not dropped.
After 1922, the type III's have an added half cock notch and the same firing pin arrangement as the Colt 1911's and are generally more drop safe. I'd love to say "drop safe" but I do not know this to be true. I *do* know that a gunsmith buddy of mine and I tried to force an impact induced firing with some really beat up Model M's that are not drop safe (pre 1922) and it is near impossible but if it really hits the ground or is impacted on the muzzle very hard it can discharge. I have not been able to get a discharge in a half cock hammered model no matter how I try.
The half cock hammers are available yet as are the additional parts and can be transplanted into the earlier Model M's but I have not done this with my 1918 built Type III.
I intend to carry a Colt 1903 when licensed to do so in Illinois and that carry gun will be of the half cock notch type - a later model type III.
VooDoo
Phantom Captain
Member
Here's my little family.
The top is a German made 1970 PPK/s .380 (I know it's a .32 thread but had to throw it in there).
Middle is the Manurhin 1971 PP .32
Bottom is my prized 1938 German PPK in .32
I completely dig shooting the .32 for all the reasons stated. It's fun to shoot and I have no problem carry them for self defense. Also as stated above I just am not comfortable carrying full size guns and for my needs the .32s or .380 Walthers fit just fine. The thing about the small guns is exactly as stated, I always have one on me because they ARE comfortable to carry.
The top is a German made 1970 PPK/s .380 (I know it's a .32 thread but had to throw it in there).
Middle is the Manurhin 1971 PP .32
Bottom is my prized 1938 German PPK in .32
I completely dig shooting the .32 for all the reasons stated. It's fun to shoot and I have no problem carry them for self defense. Also as stated above I just am not comfortable carrying full size guns and for my needs the .32s or .380 Walthers fit just fine. The thing about the small guns is exactly as stated, I always have one on me because they ARE comfortable to carry.
TacticsWithPractice
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TacticsWithPractice
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Shes a 1935. My very first handgun gun ever given down from my grandfather. I have never seen another beretta marked gardone but I assume its a facility?
A downside of .32ACP that hasn't been mentioned yet is that factory ammo can be expensive, but right now all factory ammo is expensive.
I have a Colt 1903 and a Beretta Tomcat. Also had a MAB, but sold it because it was not left handed friendly (the safety was in the way). I probably should have kept it anyway..
I have a Colt 1903 and a Beretta Tomcat. Also had a MAB, but sold it because it was not left handed friendly (the safety was in the way). I probably should have kept it anyway..
7.65 European ammunition is a lot hotter than 32 ACP American ammo. Most chronograph tests show at least a 100 fps gain. WWII German military ammo is at the top range. Geco commercial ammo, S&B and Fiocchi follow.
I would not bother with US-made stuff. It's weak. The gentleman that exchanged 70 rds of S&B for 50 rds of Winchester got taken advantage of.
Interesting to note that Germany issued pistols in both 7.65 and 9K. At the same time, they preferred 7.65 and actually made Hungary re-tool production lines for FEG 37 to 7.65 from original 9K.
I would not bother with US-made stuff. It's weak. The gentleman that exchanged 70 rds of S&B for 50 rds of Winchester got taken advantage of.
Interesting to note that Germany issued pistols in both 7.65 and 9K. At the same time, they preferred 7.65 and actually made Hungary re-tool production lines for FEG 37 to 7.65 from original 9K.
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