A thread about .32 acp

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I don't feel taken advantage of - I have shot Winchester FMJ at the range before and the other folks were having a hell of a time. So, I traded Winchester flat nose for a box of S&B at the range to help newbies out. I now have new friends and good will for a $20 box of ammo.

At the range the Winchester is more accurate thru my Colt's anyway and since this was not a self defense situation I didn't need hotter ammunition for which I currently carry Buffalo Bore's 75 grain Flat nose hard cast lead...talk about hot.

So, all was not lost.

I also scored *all* the brass as they left all 50 rounds of the S&B brass for me and I scored almost 100 rounds of once fired Winchester factory brass as well. I'll reload the Winchester brass with 75 grain hard cast flat nose and it'll be running 1000 fps+ out of the scored brass.

So, it's a win/win and I have new friends at the range to show for it. I kinda feel like .32 ACP aficionados are forming a "family" or group of .32 pistoleros so I just paid it forward a little.

VooDoo

 

[batjka]

No offense intended. I understand your reasoning and it's great to make new friends at the range.

I just feel that .32 gets a bad rap mostly due to the underpowered American ammo. The difference between .32 and .380 is really dismal if European ammo is used.

I enjoy my P32 and shoot it accurate enough at 25 yds to have full confidence in it. Greco 73gr bullet does close to 1000 FPS from a P32 and that's pretty respectable.

What loads are you using?

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Handloads? Next run will be Rim Rock 75 grain hard cast flat nose lead bullets (same ones Buffalo Bore uses) with 2.7 grains of Unique behind it. The last rounds were the same bullet with 2.6 grains of Unique and were running about 860 fps average out of my Colt 1903 with a 3.75" barrel.

They are a little "peppery" and recoil wise feel like a Fiocchi or S&B round but were quite a bit more accurate. In fact they were very accurate at 21'. No signs of pressure and the gun handles them just fine so we are gonna push it a little more.

I get my new dies from CH4D on Saturday and no longer have to rely on borrowed .32 ACP dies from a Gun Buddy so things should move ahead quicker in the coming weeks. Eventually we will work up some loads with Meister 94 grain flat nose lead bullets when we feel more comfortable and have more experience under our belts.

Until then I use S&B or Buffalo Bore for self defense in our .32 ACP Colt Model M's. My Wife and I each have our own pistols and are both lovers of the .32 ACP rounds as they are controllable in rapid fire and accurate at 21' - 30' and don't beat us up so we can shoot about 400 rounds month at practice.

I'm a big fan of deep penetration and heavy bullets for .32 ACP as opposed to some who feel that the 60 grain hollow points are better. I'm a firm believer that the round nose flat point bullets driven deep and hard will do more damage and are more effective in this caliber than expansion or round nose FMJ.

VooDoo

 

[golden]

What i have found

GOOD,

I have shot a number of small pistols in both .32ACP and .380ACP. There is a difference in recoil, but a lot depends on the gun.

The softest recoiling .32ACP pistols that I have shot are the:

BERETTA model 82 CHEETAH.

COLT 1903 POCKET HAMMERLESS

Both are large guns for the .32ACP cartridge, but that is not the whole story. The COLT 1903 is solid steel and that pound and a haf weight and full size grip give a light kick and easily controlled kick. The COLT 1903 makes it easy to shoot the .32ACP accurately.
If I were going to carry this gun, I would probably go with CONDITION 3, empty chamber and full magazine. I just do not trust that safety.

The BERETTA is even better as it weighs almost the same and has a wider grip which spreads the recoil over a wider area of your hand. It is the softest shooting .32ACP I have used.
Other advantages are a smooth, double action trigger, excellent sights, good grip design and the open slide reliability that BERETTA has built its reputation on. I keep mine full of HYDRA SHOK which feed 100 % in this gun.

My BERETTA 84, which is the double stack magazine version of the CHEETAH in .380ACP is probably the one .380ACP pistol I would consider a substitute for a 9m.m. Parabellum defense gun. It has the 13 round magazine capacity, great double action trigger, mild recoil for a .380ACP, same great sights.

Other guns can be hit or miss. The NAA GUARDIAN has harsh recoil, really poor sights, heavy trigger, but has been reliable.

My KEL TEC .32ACP is just not reliable.

My WALTHER PPK in .32ACP is very reliable, but not as good as the BERETTA which never seems to jam.

My .380ACP SIG 232 is terrific on recoil. The kick is less than the .32ACP PPK. On the other hand, the SIG is bigger and harder to conceal. The SIG has a very ergonomic grip which fits me to a tee.
Add in a terrific trigger, very safe design, perfect sights and you have a winner.
The negative is that the larger grip makes it harder to conceal than the PPK.

In the end, if recoil is the deciding factor, try a large .380ACP like the BERETTA model 84 or a SIG 232 as they have all the advantages of a modern design with very light recoil and excellent control.

If concealment is more important, then a .32ACP like the WALTHER PPK may be a better choice than a .380ACP version of the same gun.

Jim

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Wow! Golden, thanks for the impressions of a number of .32 ACP variations!

I'm looking for a Beretta 82 in 90% condition....I had one back in "The Day" and sold it for food money and have regretted it ever since. If I find another one I'm buyin' that Bad Boy.

VooDoo

 

[batjka]

You said your P32 is not reliable. Could you elaborate please? My P32 (knock on wood) had been 100% and I have about 500 rds through it. If there's a problem, a trip back to the factory might be required. These guns are great and I hate to hear that you cannot depend on the one you have.

 

[readyeddy]

I don't believe it. 56 posts and no "gigantic jerk".

Some beautiful guns in this thread. Now I want a 32.

 

[GyMac]

Lots of beautiful, classy guns in .32 ACP, but that 1910 Browning earlier shown by PRM is stunning! Thanks for posting!

 

[Cokeman]

I don't believe it. 56 posts and no "gigantic jerk".

Some beautiful guns in this thread. Now I want a 32.

Great

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I think reliability with the P-32 is a function of ammo and bullet type. They seem to be overly susceptible to "rim lock" with hollow point or flat nosed bullets due to the shorter OAL of the cartridge. My Gun Buddy has a P-32 and I do like it very much but without a kit in the mag or modifications I think your options for ammo are FMJ - period.

The Beretta Tomcats seem to be rather finicky as well with flat nosed bullets - I dunno about hollow points as I have not discussed that with anyone who owns a Tomcat.

Kel Tec owners and Beretta Tomcatters: Please add information if you have it to share.

VooDoo

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Bump....

Ran across this pix of a range visit. The exercise was to try "point shooting" or threat focused/quick kill (whatever you call it...) shooting triple and quadruple taps in rapid succession without using sights. My first attempt was not that bad remembering that these targets are 6"X10" so most of the rounds are clustered within a 4" area which is a circle about the size of the palm of my hand.



This was factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot 73 gr FMJ shot at 21'. The pistol is a 95 year old Colt 1903 Model M. Pictured is the original mag but I have 3 after market mags I purchased from Numrich and they have yet to fail me in any way. 6 mags between 2 pistols, 4 of them reproduction mags and 2 of them originals and all of them function flawlessly.

Keep the .32 acp thread moving my mouse gun brothers....

VooDoo

 

[krupparms]

I have a Colt model M & a Beretta & a Kel-Tec in .32acp. I find them all fun to shoot. The Tomcat is my favorite, followed by the Colt & then the Kel-Tec. The Kel-Tec can hold more rounds! But the Tomcat is very easy to shoot &very accurate with the right loads! They are all fine guns. I would choose the Kel-Tec as firepower & price are your best features about the Kel-Tec. But the Tomcat is a better pick if price is no problem. BTW. The S.S. tomcat is wider & heaver than the blue version. Good luck! Hope that helps. But remember it's just my opinion.

 

[golden]

MORE ON TOMCAT and KEL TEC

The KEL TEC just will not feed.
I have tried WINCHESTER White Box with the flat tip bullets. This is the most troublesome ammo I have tried. It has misfed by catching on the flat tip of the bullet in several guns and is just a bad design in my experience.

I switched to AGUILLA, S&B, REMINGTON ball and FIOCCHI and WINCHESTER jhp and none would feed even a single magazine full without a misfeed. I gave up. I will send it back to the factory, but I have lost confidense in it.

The other listed pistol is a BERETTA Tomcat. My first one (I have had 3) would not feed the WINCHESTER White Box, but was 100 % with AGUILLA, S&B and FIOCCHI ball. I eventually loaded it with COR BON Powerball and it is 100% reliable with that ammo. My wife liked it so much, she decided it was hers!
My second is my occasional carry gun and is much less choosy on which ammo it will shoot. I carry it loaded with a FEDERAL Hydra Shok in the chamber and FIOCCHI jhp in the mags, but I will be switching to Powerball as I have finally been able to get some at a reasonable price.

My WALTHER feeds FIOCCHI jhp and WINCHESTRE Silvertips, but will now get the same treatment as the Tomcat with a Hydra Shok in the chamber and Powerball in the mags.

The BERETTA model 82 Cheetah gets only Hydra Shok as it is 100% with every ammo I have tried in it.

I also have an 87 year old COLT 1903 in very good condition. It can shoot the Silvertips and FIOCCHI jhp without a problem. So that would be the ammo in the mags.

I also had a BERETTA model 70 Puma, that shot well with ball and the FIOCCHI jhp. I did not have it long enough to test the Silvertip or Hydra Shok.
It was light, had a nice grip, but I wanted a double action pistol, so it went and was replaced by the WALTHER PPK.

Jim

 

[rondog]

I mentioned my two back in post #18, here's photos now. I recently had them both out shooting, and they did very well. I've since decided the Mauser is OK for CCW duty, so it's been seeing some pocket time lately. Once I got the firing problem fixed, this is actually a pretty neat little pistol and fun to shoot! Accurate too.





The MAB still has feeding issues once in awhile, so I think it'll remain just a range plinker. It has an awful trigger anyway.

 

[Walkalong]

Seecamp

One of my BUG guns, and sometimes a main carry. (Correction) No sights, but it's not a long distance gun. Fairly easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 10 yards with. Fits me pretty well, despite being a small gun. Nice smooth DA trigger.

FN Browning Model 1922

Fits my hand very well. Tiny sights, but easy to use. Somewhat heavy SA trigger, but easy to manage. Fairly easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

Beretta Model 81

Nice DA, sweet short SA. Fits my hand great. Very easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

Llama Especial

A bit small for my hand. SA trigger is smooth but heavy, making it a bit harder to shoot well. Could probably be fixed easily. Tougher to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards consistently.

CZ Model 83

Superb DA, nice smooth long SA. Fits my hand great. Pretty easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

 

[usp9]

Tiny sights

Your Seecamp has sights?

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Dude...you got a Beretta 81?

I have scoured the 'Net looking for a decent Beretta 81 or 82 and not only did I not find a decent one, I didn't find one. :banghead:

I need another .32 besides my Colt 1903's and I admit I'm absolutely obsessed with my Model M's. Maybe a CZ..there's an FN at the LGS that's killing me not to buy it but I have a line on another Colt 1903 that i have to have.

Did I mention it's an obsession?

VooDoo

 

[Walkalong]

Your Seecamp has sights?

Whoops, thinking of another gun.

Dude...you got a Beretta 81?

Yep, and it's sweet. It's a police trade in, just like my CZ was, and there were a bunch on the market for a while. Before that I was like you, frustrated at lack of availability and high prices. I would love to have a Colt 1903, but pricing has kept me from that as well.

 

[gloucestergarand]

Walther PP in .32 in my cargo pocket as I type this....99% of the time I'm wearing my Colt Commander, but when I need discrete carry, my Walther is my go to piece. One of the best trades I ever made!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Deaf Smith]

I have both a Beretta 1935 .32 made in 1954 (called the 935 by then) and a P32 made by Kel-tec.

Surprisingly the P32 is quite reliable and I use it when I mow the lawn (carries well in a pants pocket and a Nemesis holster.)

The Beretta is a safe queen!

Deaf

 

[TestPilot]

...
And obviously I realize the .32 isn't a high stopping power round. I pointed that out in the post I started with. I was asking if there was any reason besides it's lack of stopping power that it wasn't a common handgun round. Let me restate the foundation of my beliefs when it comes to modern handguns and concealment:
....

Well, if that's the answer you're looking for, then the answer is quite simple.

It's unpopular because it is a weak round compared to 9mm or higher, or even 380ACP. And, when JHP desgin is concerened, even 380ACP is really pushing it.

There is no hidden secrets or mysteries to be discovered.

Why not popular for sport shooting? Simple. If you want really low recoil chaeap and accurate sport shooting, there is 22 LR. Also, since there is no size restriction involved with range shooting, even 9mm guns can be sized up so recoil would be mild.

32ACP does nothing better than 22LR for sports and fun plinking, and noting better than 380ACP or 9mm for anti personnel role.

Sure, someone will come along and say stuff like "Police and citizens of hundred years ago used 32ACP to protect themselves, blah, blah...." Not that I think you buy that. But, that was because blow back pistols that use weak rounds are more easier to design with with old engineering technology, and ignorance.

If any one approaches any police subject matter expert and try to convince them why 32ACP is appropriate for police issue now, they'd look at them like they're nuts.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

Interesting thread and some really cool pictures, I thought about getting a .32 acp cz scorpion lately but then looked at the price of the ammo, and while I do reload I really didn't feel like adding another set of dies to the mix. Luckly I all ready reload for the 380 and there is a 380 version of the scorpion.

On the other hand if I did come across a good deal on a 32.acp pistol I still think I would pick it up. As for the daily carry I think I will stick to my LCP. It shoots just fine and I don't find the recoil bad at all. I could only imagine that the P-32 would be just a little bit less in the recoil depart.

 

[batjka]

.32 and .380 are pretty close in performance. But there's an extra round in the magazine for .32 as opposed to .380. I agree that full-sized pistols in .32 have lost their practicality, but a CCW chambered in .32 definitely has its place in the modern world.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I have the tomcat .32. when lightly dressed - cargo shorts or even swim trunks it's in a pocket and spare mag other side pocket. it has never jammed and I've shot 100s of cast slug handloads thru it.

 

[Jim K]

One of the main reasons .32 ACP guns are not more common is that until recently the import regulations under GCA '68 made import of guns in .25 and .32 caliber very difficult. They have revised the rules to put .32 with .380 rather than with .25, so that gets a few more points.

Jim