Abusive Ex-bf, threatens, calls us @ work to say "I'm in the house"

[rainbowbob]

There is a loan on the house but I believe she is simply getting the loan altered. She's paying him cash.

That would indicate the GF is re-financing the existing loan for a larger amount in order to pull out cash to pay the ex-BF his share of the joint equity.

Essentially, that means she is applying for a new loan that is larger than the old loan. The new loan will pay off the old loan and provide enough extra cash to pay off the ex.

That could indeed take a month or so to close. Meanwhile, the ex apparently has some right and title to the house.

That does NOT mean he would necessarily retain the right to enter the house in contempt of a no-contact order. I believe with a no-contact order the GF would have the right to change the locks and deny him access.

Get a no-contact order! Do it today! I'm serious! It sounds to me that the GF may need an attorney to navigate these muddy waters. It would probably be money well-spent to buy an hour of legal advice to at least get a handle on this legally slippery and potentially dangerous situation.

If the nutty boy friend was physically abusive, she needs to file charges, that will at least keep him from legally buying a gun...

It sounds to me that he has already made threats of physical violence that would prevent him from legally possessing a firearm if included in a no-contact order. You usually don't need "proof beyond a shadow of a doubt" to obtain said order. You and the GF corroborating each other's claims of threats and harrassment should be enough. Of course, "legally" preventing him from possessing a firearm is not the same thing as "actually" preventing him from possessing one.

I think we all agree that you need to take this seriously and do at least some of the things that have been suggested to you - starting with a no-contact order ASAP. If you are serious about asking for advice - I, for one, want some evidence that you are serious about taking it. Please let us know by Monday evening what steps you have taken. If the answer is "none of the above" - than I will move on to other threads and let you and the GF work it out.

Good luck, and be safe.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Sometimes I seriously wonder if societies that practice arranged marriages have it right, and we have it wrong.

wacki said: If you want some more details about this psycho you can read this thread which was closed due to possible relationship advice.... which I don't want because we treat each other very well. I'm only worried about psycho and I'm desperately trying to avoid a situation where anyone will discharge a gun.

After I closed the first thread and we had that PM exchange, I suggested you might want to do some major cropping if you wanted to repost this in S&T.

Going in-depth with that many details and background history encourages the discussion to focus on your relationship problems.


The reason you're getting so much relationship advice is a result of doing just that when you re-introduced this. You're focusing on the ex as the problem. Can you see how it isn't just the ex that's contributing to this drama?


There are somewhere around 150 million women in the United States. A bunch of 'em lead healthy, normal lives with healthy, normal relationships. And when their romantic relationships end, both parties go their separate ways without this kind of nuttiness. Somehow you managed to find one needing protection, and she found another white knight.

Sometimes infatuation and passion interferes with our judgement. At first behavior and situations like these seem unbelieveable, but live in the middle of it for long enough and it becomes "the normal routine."

This drama and these problems are not normal. I can't imagine many circumstances where I'd decide to put roots down in the midst of such a mess. You're seriously concerned you might wind up in a situation that forces you to shoot this guy. And I believe you. If you stay in the middle of these quarreling ex-lovers, I think you probably might.


But take a deep breath and ask yourself: How is it that you are bound to her problems, and the consequences of her mistakes?


She's unwilling to put an end to this. You're unwilling to walk away from her. You decided to buy into her problems. Now you own them, and all that comes with it. I don't see how this is going to resolve even after she gets the house re-titled.


Codependency. Its a bugger, ain't it?

 

[rainbowbob]

I don't see how this is going to resolve even after she gets the house re-titled.

BFKen: I agree with much of your post - with this caveat. The GF MIGHT be a normal girl who got in over her head and will never make that mistake again because she is in love with our OP and they will live happily ever after.

Her willingness (or lack of same) to seek a no-contact order TOMORROW should be a pretty good indication of where her head and heart are in this mess. If she is unwilling, the OP should RUN for the nearest exit!

 

[snow92686]

Definitely restraining order. If only a temporary one.

 

[conw]

Ken, I agree completely.

rainbowbob, that "might" disappeared when the guy got online to ask how to go around his elbow to get to his thumb. It shows clearly that not only is she dealing with the codependency type issues, he is too!

Seriously, orig poster, if you REALLY want to salvage the relationship AND get out of the situation safely, follow most of the good advice in this thread and, in addition, get both of you into counseling!

 

[Robert Hairless]

But take a deep breath and ask yourself: How is it that you are bound to her problems, and the consequences of her mistakes?

She's unwilling to put an end to this. You're unwilling to walk away from her. You decided to buy into her problems. Now you own them, and all that comes with it. I don't see how this is going to resolve even after she gets the house re-titled.

Codependency. Its a bugger, ain't it?

That's the most sensible post in this thread about a melodramatic love triangle that has escalated into threats of violence and could go in any direction. Whatever the direction, Wacki is likely to get hurt. "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

 

[rainbowbob]

rainbowbob, that "might" disappeared when the guy got online to ask how to go around his elbow to get to his thumb.

Conwict; I don't understand what you mean? Please elaborate.

 

[Harvster]

This wasn't about guns to begin with. Many opinions (including mine) have been given about housing, relationships, ex's. I think many reasonable suggestions have been made and don't see this thread going anywhere or ever becoming more gun related than it already isn't.

 

[scythefwd]

Harvester,
It can't become any more than slightly gun related because guns are not the end all/ be all of security. Guns are just a tool used in security. Security encompases more than many of us have the time to talk about and intangable things like situational awareness. I agree 100% with you.

(sorry if this "me too" or "+1" post doesn't add anything)

 

[alsaqr]

"YOUR STUFF is at the house (co)owned by the ex. ***?

Dude, you are living in a house that belongs to some psycho who hates you.
Am I right?

You need to move.

With or without the "girlfriend.""



+1

 

[conw]

rainbowbob wrote:

Quote:
rainbowbob, that "might" disappeared when the guy got online to ask how to go around his elbow to get to his thumb.

Conwict; I don't understand what you mean? Please elaborate.

I mean that he has a couple of options here:

1) Leave and cut his losses
2) Do the hard thing and spend lots of money on legal fees and even then risk bodily injury

...and while it seems to be obvious to all of us, it isn't to him. He is asking what he can do, other than these imminently sane plans of action, simply because his disconnected-from-reality girlfriend says not to get the law involved. Hence he is "going around his elbow to get to his thumb." It's just an idiomatic expression, sorry if that was misleading. It means he is taking a hard route when there is a clear and easy route.

As a result of his unwillingness to do the reasonable and sane thing, we can deduce that he (and also his girlfriend) have what are known as "codependency" issues:

Symptoms of codependence are controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, problems with intimacy, excessive caretaking, hypervigilance or physical illness related to stress. Codependence is often accompanied by clinical depression, as the codependent person succumbs to feelings of frustration or sadness over an inability to improve the situation.

Codependence can also be a set of maladaptive, compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing great emotional pain and stress caused, for example, by a family member's alcoholism or other addiction, sexual or other abuse within the family, a family member's chronic illness, or forces external to the family, such as poverty.

Codependency advocates claim that a codependent may feel shame about, or try to change, private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with those of another person. An example would be a wife making excuses for her husband's excessive drinking and perhaps running interference for him by calling in sick for him when he is hung over. Such behaviors, which may well lessen conflict and ease tension within the family in the short term, are counterproductive in the long term, since, in this case, the wife is actually supporting ("enabling") the husband's drinking behavior.

(From Wiki)

...just substitute the original poster's situation in here. It fits perfectly.

 

[ilbob]

No offense but it sounds like your GF just does not want to completely abandon this guy, or she would not be opposed to restraining orders and other legal means to deal with his supposed unwanted behavior. Its a pretty common but difficult to understand reaction that many women have in this kind of situation.

 

[rainbowbob]

"going around his elbow to get to his thumb."

I hadn't heard that before. Now I get it. I like it.

About the whole codependency stuff...awww, I don't know. It sounds something we all do at some point or another to one degree or another. Or did I just reveal too much info? In any case...maybe we're being codependent with the OP for getting wrapped up in his drama and keeping it going.

After get a restraining order, get a gun, or get the f*** out a there - what else is there to say?

This is becoming "The Days of Our Lives" or something. I want to know that the OP takes some or all of the good advice offered. After that....

 

[buck00]

Getting the police involved is something she wants to avoid until the paperwork is finalized due to possible legal battles.

You actually have this backwards. You DO want to get the police involved- document everything- all the voice mails, all the threats, the break-in, etc. You will find this will be a good leverage piece during the legal battle. If he has several charges looming over him (which he knows you can either drop or pursue) it may help out a lot if he is being stubborn about things.

* Also, he works for a Fortune 500 company? How would he feel if tapes of him harassing her were leaked to VPs, HR, and his co-workers? Might be hard to explain how such a good employee is a criminal and vile human being.

Sounds to me like your gf is still in the "don't fight back mindset." By doing nothing and being passive, you only encourage him to harass you more and rob you of your dignity.

 

[XDKingslayer]

SHE doesn't want to get the police involved. SHE never pressed charges for any kind of abuse while they were seeing each other.

Dude, drop this one and find one without baggage and/or one willing to drop the baggage.

This one isn't and is going to be a problem from now until the end of time or until she gets sick of you and goes back to him, because that's probably what's going to happen.

 

[sm]

One cannot change people, places and things- then only damn thing they can change is themselves and how they deal with life on life's terms.

Sometimes this means changing playmates, playgrounds and playthings.

If the pain something is causing is greater than the pain it is supposed to fix, quit doing which causes pain and find other solutions.

Hurt-Hurts.

One has to work on the solution, not the problem.
For if one expends energy on the solution, there is no power to feed the problem.
In like fashion, if one expends energy on the problem, there is no power to feed the solution.

Be the firstest with the mostest - Gen. Bedford Forrest, CSA

So one is wise to contact Law Enforcement, and other Legal avenues first, and present their side of the story , with as much evidence as can, to have established for the record any and everything in the event matters should arise and these things come into play.
Continued Communication is the key, with LEO and Legal avenues as well, in all this too.

The cold hard reality is, the universe existed before one was born, had any relationships, any personal property, anything at all.

When one dies, the universe will continue as it always had without them.

I personally am nobody, I am nothing, a grain of sand on the beach is more significant than I am, at least that grain of sand plays a part in how the universe continues to be.
I never have, and never will be as important as that grain of sand.


s

 

[goon]

I'm also wondering why she won't take or support legal action against the guy.
Doesn't make sense to me to avoid informing the police about something like this - that's what they're there for.

Hate to say it, but there does seem to be something a little strange going on with that.

I'm sure that some of what is going on with this situation is not her fault, but I was also involved with a girl once who had problems with ex-boyfriends. Even when we were dating, she wouldn't take appropriate steps to completely remove these people from her life.
I finally came to the conclusion that she didn't care for me as much as she had herself convinced that she did. What she really liked more was the idea of the guy who would ride in on a white steed to save her. Her behavior supported this conclusion.
She wasn't a bad person, but she also definitely wasn't what I needed in my life.

It may apply to you, it may not.
Just my $.02.

 

[hso]

Getting the police involved is something she wants to avoid until the paperwork is finalized due to possible legal battles.

That's mistake. She needs to quit being the victim and you need to quit enabling her.

If you don't want relationship advice at least take the security/safety/legal advice and get an attorney, contact the cops, change the locks, install a camera system and move out his house until the property issue is resolved.

 

[conw]

rainbowbob said:

About the whole codependency stuff...awww, I don't know. It sounds something we all do at some point or another to one degree or another. Or did I just reveal too much info? In any case...maybe we're being codependent with the OP for getting wrapped up in his drama and keeping it going.

Bob, I think you're right in that there's nothing wrong with helping someone. The "neutral" Wikipedia article says that's one of the main arguments against codependency. For the most part, helpfulness and kindness are nothing but good.

However, when the someone you're helping has delusions about their problems, and you buy into those delusions at your own risk, that's codependency.

Almost all psychological issues exist on a continuum. It's not abnormal or pathological if it's close to the baseline. And that's why it's hard to self-diagnose or diagnose others with anything. There's just something fishy about this post that is setting a lot of radars off.

 

[BullfrogKen]

There are really only two forms a mentor can impart, and their students learn, hard life lessons - one is pain, the other shame.


It is hard to distinguish between honest help from enabling, codependent behavior. Over time and as circumstances become more intense, the distinctions become clearer.


Helping someone through a problem contains elements of the person with the problem assuming responsibility and taking initiative and actions on their own to solve it. But they may need assistance in areas there are ignorant in or tasks they are unable to perform.

Enabling and codependency lacks initiative and action by the person with the problem to take basic steps to resolve it. Someone who feels compelled to protect that individual then steps into the situation and engages in acts designed to protect that individual from suffering the consequences from a failure to act.


Sometimes we need that sort of action. A person purely ignorant of a dangerous situation needs someone knowledgeable of the danger to step in to protect them. Some argue when the stakes are high, but don't rise to damage that can't be fixed, that the ignorant be allowed to suffer the consequences and learn a lesson that will never be forgotten. As an example - a mother may have to repeatedly scold a child attempting to touch the hot stove; a father may decide to allow it to happen, ensuring the child will learn the lesson.


When does honest help become enabling and codependent behavior? At the point the protector decides its more important to shield someone from the consequences of a refusal to change their behavior or the conditions.

 

[jlbraun]

Who said the following...?

"To avoid trouble that would cause you to draw your gun, avoid stupid places, stupid people, and stupid ****."

Sounds like the OP has all three.

 

[alsaqr]

Where is the original poster?

 

[mgregg85]

This guy sounds crazy, im surprised you have managed to stay so calm.

Perhaps its best to avoid a meeting but that is what I would pursue. Meet him in a very public place and let him know how you feel and what is going to happen from now on, record it all on video if possible. If he really is a wuss he will crumble when confronted strongly yet calmly.

 

[primer]

While I understand the opinion of most of the members here. I have some insight on this. I was in a similar situation a few years ago. The GF is now my wife of 9 years and 3 children. I'm personnally happy that I made the decision to stand beside her. So I'm not going to tell you to run. Sounds like maybe you and him should have a talk. You and her definatly need to talk. I wouldn't have any of my belongings anywhere that he could get his hand on them. He could poison both you and her with access to the home. Not to mention commit a crime and leave some of your belongings at the scene.I would get an apartment until the paperwork is finished and then sale the house. He may feel that your on his "turf". It's easier for him to intimidate her than it would he to intimidate a male. Get cell phone numbers changed asap. Break contact between him and her. He'll get tired of talking to you if he can't intimidate you. Get both you and her out of the house. A home isn't worth LOSING YOUR LIVES! Think about it, he can get into the home. He's probably familiar with the home enough to move around the home in low light and while you and her are sleeping. Don't let this guy get the upper hand with you. Get an apartment and try to keep track of this guys activities. If he's around, try to know about it. Don't let this end up being a story of two victims. You HAVE to do something about this before your being outlined in chalk!

 

[primer]

That's what I did. I confronted the guy in public and he got my point. He turned as white as a ghost when I stepped up and told him who I was.