Accidental discharges from holstered guns?
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WhoKnowsWho
Member
Maybe if someone stabbed you right through the holster and trigger area...
badgerrr
Member
Saw an accidental discharge of a Star Model PD .45 When it was being holstered.
Friend of mine had been practicing his draw with the PD earlier in the week. It was also his bed side pistol. It was loaded and in condition 2 - (Hammer down on a loaded round). He mounted his holster on his belt and then slipped the auto down into the holster. I saw the leather grab the slide a bit, and cam it back just a smidgen.
BOOM!!!
The 190gr Lead SWC shot straight down thru the floor - after the blast blew the end of his Hunter holster open.
Trying to make sense of the incident later.....we suspect that the fault was with a high primer. When the slide snapped back down into position it had just enough force to pop the cap.
Friend of mine had been practicing his draw with the PD earlier in the week. It was also his bed side pistol. It was loaded and in condition 2 - (Hammer down on a loaded round). He mounted his holster on his belt and then slipped the auto down into the holster. I saw the leather grab the slide a bit, and cam it back just a smidgen.
BOOM!!!
The 190gr Lead SWC shot straight down thru the floor - after the blast blew the end of his Hunter holster open.
Trying to make sense of the incident later.....we suspect that the fault was with a high primer. When the slide snapped back down into position it had just enough force to pop the cap.
BluesBear
member
High primer? Not likely. High primers rarely ever fire except perhaps in a subgun. After all, this round had already been safely chambered.
Was there a indentation on the primer? If so then it wasn't a slam fire.
Does the PD have an inertia firing pin?
If so, carrying it with the hammer down brings the nose dangerously close to the primer.
If not then the firing pin is actually touching the primer. (Not a good thing)
Was there a indentation on the primer? If so then it wasn't a slam fire.
Does the PD have an inertia firing pin?
If so, carrying it with the hammer down brings the nose dangerously close to the primer.
If not then the firing pin is actually touching the primer. (Not a good thing)
ARperson
Member
Only negligent discharges I've heard of concerning holsters occurred during the actual acts of holstering or unholstering the firearm. Fingers weren't kept away from the trigger.
No such thing as ADs.
No such thing as ADs.
BerettaNut92
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Probably not from holsterED guns but when holstering make sure your shirt doesn't get caught in the triggerguard!! 
sendtoscott
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http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory/2192981
...Another accidental discharge, in which no one was injured, happened only days before in the homicide division, officers said.
That discharge, involving a Glock, occurred when an investigator hung his holstered gun up in a restroom stall, and it discharged repeatedly.
Smith's service weapon was a .45-caliber Colt Model 1911, a reproduction of a World War I U.S. military sidearm, a model that HPD officers have had problems with before.
In February 1992, HPD Mounted Division officer Franklin Paul shot his horse when the sleeve of his thick jacket brushed against his cocked .45-automatic pistol, causing the gun to fire accidentally. The horse survived.
Former Houston officer J.W. Clampitte was carrying the same kind of weapon in 1977 when he accidentally released the safety by sliding into the front seat of his car. The gun discharged, sending a bullet through Clampitte's left foot....
...Another accidental discharge, in which no one was injured, happened only days before in the homicide division, officers said.
That discharge, involving a Glock, occurred when an investigator hung his holstered gun up in a restroom stall, and it discharged repeatedly.
Smith's service weapon was a .45-caliber Colt Model 1911, a reproduction of a World War I U.S. military sidearm, a model that HPD officers have had problems with before.
In February 1992, HPD Mounted Division officer Franklin Paul shot his horse when the sleeve of his thick jacket brushed against his cocked .45-automatic pistol, causing the gun to fire accidentally. The horse survived.
Former Houston officer J.W. Clampitte was carrying the same kind of weapon in 1977 when he accidentally released the safety by sliding into the front seat of his car. The gun discharged, sending a bullet through Clampitte's left foot....
WhoKnowsWho
Member
I'm guessing he hung it on the trigger... talk about bump firing... amazing how weapons just go off and shoot by themselves...
TheFederalistWeasel
member
TheFederalistWeasel
member
Officer shoots self in accident
# Gun discharges, hits officer in leg prior to JPD raid, police say
The Clarion-Ledger
A Jackson police officer accidentally shot himself in the leg Thursday as he and other officers prepared to raid a west Jackson home, police said.
The officer, Lawrence Funchess, had pulled his Glock 9mm pistol from its holster when it went off, police spokesman Robert Graham said.
The veteran officer was taken to the University of Mississippi Medical Center with a non-life threatening injury, Graham said. No one else was injured.
The 3 p.m. raid at 803 J. R. Lynch St. continued after the officer was injured. The officers were at the home to serve a search warrant, Graham said.
Antoinette Jackson, 30, and Saquintta Givens, 28, addresses unavailable, were charged with possession of cocaine, Graham said.
"They found cocaine in (Givens') underwear," Graham said.
Another woman at the home was arrested on an outstanding warrant unrelated to the drug bust, Graham said.
# Gun discharges, hits officer in leg prior to JPD raid, police say
The Clarion-Ledger
A Jackson police officer accidentally shot himself in the leg Thursday as he and other officers prepared to raid a west Jackson home, police said.
The officer, Lawrence Funchess, had pulled his Glock 9mm pistol from its holster when it went off, police spokesman Robert Graham said.
The veteran officer was taken to the University of Mississippi Medical Center with a non-life threatening injury, Graham said. No one else was injured.
The 3 p.m. raid at 803 J. R. Lynch St. continued after the officer was injured. The officers were at the home to serve a search warrant, Graham said.
Antoinette Jackson, 30, and Saquintta Givens, 28, addresses unavailable, were charged with possession of cocaine, Graham said.
"They found cocaine in (Givens') underwear," Graham said.
Another woman at the home was arrested on an outstanding warrant unrelated to the drug bust, Graham said.
TheFederalistWeasel
member
Glocks = Junk
TheFederalistWeasel
member
BluesBear
member
Even though I think they are fugly every Glock I have fired was absolutely 100% reliable.
Yes a loaded Glock WILL go off..... each and every time you pull the trigger.
Yes a loaded Glock WILL go off..... each and every time you pull the trigger.
Black Snowman
Member
I have had 0 issues in the 6000+ rounds of reloads through my junk . . . er Glock. It has the dangrous 3.5 lbs connector that has been polished to buttery unsafe smoothness. It's also in the self-destructing .40 S&W in the unsafe, dangreously unsuported, stock barrel.
It was the 1st handgun I have owned myself. The 1st handgun I reloaded for. As a rank amature it I was aware of the elevated risk, educated myself and bought the gun that fit my needs and desires best. The Glock 24P.
Knowing the dangers of any gun I developed good gun handling and reloading practices which have served me very well with all of the subsequent "safe" guns I've owned.
I have NEVER had a ND with any gun. I HAVE had guns go off unintentionally but they were never negligent because they were still pointed at the target. Trying to speed up follow-up shots for competition I have had all my handguns go off before I wanted them to, right down the range and into the backstop where they should go. Just not through the part of the target I would have liked.
Glocks are not safe, guns are not safe, NOTHING in the grand scheme of things is safe. It's all a matter of degrees. My "acceptable level of risk" may be slightly higher than yours but that doesn't make the Glock junk. People's reliance on equipment or huberous will kill them more often than their choice of tools.
My preference is to not have a loaded chamber unless going into harms way. In which case, you should have a good rifle in hand and the Glock is only a last resort anyway.
I think this was all covered pretty well on your posted TFL thread.
It was the 1st handgun I have owned myself. The 1st handgun I reloaded for. As a rank amature it I was aware of the elevated risk, educated myself and bought the gun that fit my needs and desires best. The Glock 24P.
Knowing the dangers of any gun I developed good gun handling and reloading practices which have served me very well with all of the subsequent "safe" guns I've owned.
I have NEVER had a ND with any gun. I HAVE had guns go off unintentionally but they were never negligent because they were still pointed at the target. Trying to speed up follow-up shots for competition I have had all my handguns go off before I wanted them to, right down the range and into the backstop where they should go. Just not through the part of the target I would have liked.
Glocks are not safe, guns are not safe, NOTHING in the grand scheme of things is safe. It's all a matter of degrees. My "acceptable level of risk" may be slightly higher than yours but that doesn't make the Glock junk. People's reliance on equipment or huberous will kill them more often than their choice of tools.
My preference is to not have a loaded chamber unless going into harms way. In which case, you should have a good rifle in hand and the Glock is only a last resort anyway.
I think this was all covered pretty well on your posted TFL thread.
My junk with the 2.5 trigger doesn't ND because I don't pull the trigger when I'm not supposed to. How does some SWAT cop negligently pulling the trigger of his drawn gun make them unsafe.
Here's more BS.
If that actually went down as written he was carrying a very out of spec pistol that probably would have shown itself on the range by hammer following. Brushing a 1911 does not make it go bang. Sitting on your horse and playing with your gun does.
I have yet to see anyone post an AD here. I suppose it could happen, gun just hanging out in the holster and along comes the pot metal fairy and snap! the sear falls apart. That would be an AD. If it happens I suggest you plug the hole in your leg and pronto limp out and buy a Powerball ticket.
Here's more BS.
If that actually went down as written he was carrying a very out of spec pistol that probably would have shown itself on the range by hammer following. Brushing a 1911 does not make it go bang. Sitting on your horse and playing with your gun does.
I have yet to see anyone post an AD here. I suppose it could happen, gun just hanging out in the holster and along comes the pot metal fairy and snap! the sear falls apart. That would be an AD. If it happens I suggest you plug the hole in your leg and pronto limp out and buy a Powerball ticket.
I have witnessed a true accidental discharge from a holstered handgun. The weapon in question was an older S&W Model 39 semi auto. One of the guys on my PD carried it off duty. He had a pancake type holster with a thumbreak on it. I don't know the make of the holster. The weapon was carried just behind his strongside hip (he's left handed). The officer bent over to pick something up, the thumbreak tightened across the hammer and the weapon discharged. It could have been a combination of a high primer and a floating firing pin. We never did figure out exactly what caused it. But this is no urban legend, I personally witnessed it. In fact the round impacted in the ground about 6 inches from my foot and spattered me with dirt.
I would never have believed it could happen. But it did. Infact there is a report on file at the PD (have to report every non-training discharge of a weapon).
Jeff
I would never have believed it could happen. But it did. Infact there is a report on file at the PD (have to report every non-training discharge of a weapon).
Jeff
I love these stories of cops pulling their service weapon from it's holster, or reholstering it; and somehow, having it just mysteriously go off by itself. These "stories", or more accurately fallacies, always sound like good script's for the X-Files or CSI to me.
I would imagine that a great majority of LE officer's, would not want to admit that they had their finger on the trigger causing an ND, as it's simply much easier to blame their equipement; effectively taking the heat off of themselves. It's really rather pathetic to blame a lifeless object for the careless actions of it's operator, when in reality, in almost every single instance (not all), the operator is indeed at fault!
I would be willing to wager, that even if a Glock were fitted with a NY+ 12-lb. trigger, and an officer using it had an ND, the pistol would still get the blame.
Frontsight's training facility has two documented ND's on record. One was with a 1911 that the operator forgot to "on safe" before reholstering, and the other was with a Sig P229 that the operator forgot to decock upon reholstering. Both subsequently shot themselves, one in the foot, the other in the thigh.
Most have either heard of or viewed the footage of, the female LVMPD officer who had an ND while covering a suspect with her DA Beretta, which has approximately a 14-lb. pull for the first shot; and a looooong stroke in DA mode. Also consider, that the average female has less grip and finger strength vs. the average male.
It would be refreshing to see officer's and agencies take responsibility for their action's. However, I suppose it would be bad for PR, to admit that their officer was the dangerous object, and not the pistol. And of course, depending on the resulting damage of the ND, an officer could very well lose their job should they fess' up.
jnb01
I would imagine that a great majority of LE officer's, would not want to admit that they had their finger on the trigger causing an ND, as it's simply much easier to blame their equipement; effectively taking the heat off of themselves. It's really rather pathetic to blame a lifeless object for the careless actions of it's operator, when in reality, in almost every single instance (not all), the operator is indeed at fault!
I would be willing to wager, that even if a Glock were fitted with a NY+ 12-lb. trigger, and an officer using it had an ND, the pistol would still get the blame.
Frontsight's training facility has two documented ND's on record. One was with a 1911 that the operator forgot to "on safe" before reholstering, and the other was with a Sig P229 that the operator forgot to decock upon reholstering. Both subsequently shot themselves, one in the foot, the other in the thigh.
Most have either heard of or viewed the footage of, the female LVMPD officer who had an ND while covering a suspect with her DA Beretta, which has approximately a 14-lb. pull for the first shot; and a looooong stroke in DA mode. Also consider, that the average female has less grip and finger strength vs. the average male.
It would be refreshing to see officer's and agencies take responsibility for their action's. However, I suppose it would be bad for PR, to admit that their officer was the dangerous object, and not the pistol. And of course, depending on the resulting damage of the ND, an officer could very well lose their job should they fess' up.
jnb01
Last edited:
Jeff, are you sure there is nothing more to the story than that. The S&W autos have a solid firing pin block that will prevent the gun from firing if it is dropped on the hammer. I fail to see how a strap tightening over the hammer could drive in the firing pin, break the solid steel safety block, and still have enough force to fire the gun.
I am not now a police officer, but I will say that almost all of the unintended (whatever you want to call them) discharges of service weapons were pure negligence. Drawing with the finger on the trigger is one common cause, holstering the gun with the finger on the trigger is another. One was caused by a trigger shoe on a revolver which stuck in the holster and fired the gun as it was forced into the holster.
But most are caused by something simpler. Playing with the gun. Fooling around with the gun. "Checking" the gun. And so on. And of course, the cop and his buddies have to make up a quick story about how the "gun discharged" all by its little self.
On a less serious note, I know of one case where the sand box (into which guns are pointed when loading/unloading them) was separated only by an interior wall from the police chief's private john. One day, an officer going off duty "unloaded" his revolver by putting a .38 +P+ through the wall, the "throne", and the tank. Luckily the facility was not in use at the time, and the chief was off for the day. But water all over the place, and it was interesting trying to get a plumber, and get new fixtures to match the old, and get everything mopped up, all in a few hours. But it was done, and it was a long time before the chief found out.
Jim
I am not now a police officer, but I will say that almost all of the unintended (whatever you want to call them) discharges of service weapons were pure negligence. Drawing with the finger on the trigger is one common cause, holstering the gun with the finger on the trigger is another. One was caused by a trigger shoe on a revolver which stuck in the holster and fired the gun as it was forced into the holster.
But most are caused by something simpler. Playing with the gun. Fooling around with the gun. "Checking" the gun. And so on. And of course, the cop and his buddies have to make up a quick story about how the "gun discharged" all by its little self.
On a less serious note, I know of one case where the sand box (into which guns are pointed when loading/unloading them) was separated only by an interior wall from the police chief's private john. One day, an officer going off duty "unloaded" his revolver by putting a .38 +P+ through the wall, the "throne", and the tank. Luckily the facility was not in use at the time, and the chief was off for the day. But water all over the place, and it was interesting trying to get a plumber, and get new fixtures to match the old, and get everything mopped up, all in a few hours. But it was done, and it was a long time before the chief found out.
Jim
Tamara
Senior Member
BluesBear
member
I always amuses me how anytime someone reports one of those it-was-just-sitting-there-no-one-was-touching-it-and-it-just-went-boom stories that somebody chimes in with "Golleee I bet it musta been one of them thar high primers".
Do y'al realize how much force it actually takers to fire a primer? It the past I have done testing on the force needed to fire a primer. It can be done with a high primer and a ball peen hammer, but you have to hit it a lot harder than you'd imagine and even then it's only a sometimes thing.
If primers were as sensitive as many think they are, everyone who reloads would be nicknamed LEFTY.
As for the story of the leather thumbstrap tightening when somebody bent over and fired the pistol... poppycock!
Tamara
Senior Member
BluesBear,
Did someone mention high primers again, or are you just repeating yourself?
Did someone mention high primers again, or are you just repeating yourself?
ClarkEMyers
Member
It happens - consider
Consider the story behind the Ruger Practical (flap) holster or so the story goes that a horseman in brush with a holstered gun had a twig first push the hammer back then the twig acted as a transfer bar as the horse moved forward when the hammer missed actually sticking cocked.
Colt Gold Cup in a heavily boned 1911 holster where the wider Gold Cup trigger acted like a trigger shoe see above.
Cocked and open holstered 1911 catching the hammer on the edge of a desk walking by no hand close to the gun.
Consider the story behind the Ruger Practical (flap) holster or so the story goes that a horseman in brush with a holstered gun had a twig first push the hammer back then the twig acted as a transfer bar as the horse moved forward when the hammer missed actually sticking cocked.
Colt Gold Cup in a heavily boned 1911 holster where the wider Gold Cup trigger acted like a trigger shoe see above.
Cocked and open holstered 1911 catching the hammer on the edge of a desk walking by no hand close to the gun.
Jim,
Did all of the Smith autos have that firing pin block? The explanation I was given, was that the earliest model didn't and that's how it happened. I know that the shot went off when the pistol was in the holster and no one was touching it. I can't come up with any other explanation. It happened. The officer involved is now a SGT. Besides myself there were several other witnesses. Everyone was working on setting up the city's 4th of July Fireworks display.
Jeff
Did all of the Smith autos have that firing pin block? The explanation I was given, was that the earliest model didn't and that's how it happened. I know that the shot went off when the pistol was in the holster and no one was touching it. I can't come up with any other explanation. It happened. The officer involved is now a SGT. Besides myself there were several other witnesses. Everyone was working on setting up the city's 4th of July Fireworks display.
Jeff
AZ Jeff
Member
I worked on a couple of the first generation S&W Model 39 pistols, and if I remember correctly, they were the same as the later improved Model 39-2 in that they had the firiing pin block safety in them.
I think that feature has been present on all the S&W centerfire autoloaders since day one.
I think that feature has been present on all the S&W centerfire autoloaders since day one.
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