Accuracy and my Howa 6.5x55mm

[NWcityguy2]

Before I bought my Howa 1500 in 6.5x55mm I read several postings on various forums about people complaining about their accuracy problems. Being a reloader I desided that I could probably overcome any possible issues by being able to taylor and tweek my loads. The Howa is also the best bang for the buck in a current production rifle, if you don't mind the weight of it. Since I am using this as a range gun I viewed the weight as a good thing over say a Tikka T3. Right now mine is set up with a one piece rail, 2.5-10x50mm Nikon Monarch and a 9-13" swivel bipod. IT is certainly on the heavy end of a general use rifle without a bull barrel. Anyway, on to my accuracy findings.

After having tested 3 different bullets, 2 powders, 2 primers and 4 different kinds of factory ammunition I think I have reached my conclusion about this rifle and accuracy. I think this also falls in line with what other people are seeing as well. This rifle isn't so much inherently inaccurate as it is bullet picky. Incredibly, indefensible, bullet picky. I wouldn't recommend this rifle to anyone unless they not only wanted to try a variety of bullets in it but also were completely willing to accept that the bullet they want to shoot probably won't be the bullet thier rifle will like. Now the 7 different bullets I have tested are all hunting bullets, and I am an 1 moa shooter. If my rifle could shoot 1/3rd moa in someone elses hand I still wouldn't be shooting that myself. I also think my expectations are reasonable for a $450 rifle. 2 moa with factory ammo and 1 moa with handloads. I'm not getting into target only bullets or premium ammo because thats really not my thing.

I have tried...

140gr Hornady Interlock with H4831 and Reloder 22. This bullet shoot 1.5 moa with H4831 and 1 moa with Reloder 22. Usually 4 out of 5 bullet holes are touching each other at 100 yards in its best loading.

140gr Speer Hot-cor with H4831 and Reloder 22. 3+ moa with ever load I have tried.

140gr Hornady SST. 3+ moa with every load I have tried.

I am on the road for a few months for work and have shot all my reloads so I only have pictures of the factory ammo I've bought.

139gr SP by PPU, pictured below. This is basically how good the 140gr SST and 140gr Hot-cor have shot in front of various powder loads of H4831 and R22.


140gr Moly coated SP by Federal, pictured below. (This group has 6 shots because while I am 99% sure the bullet to the right is a flyer, I just decided to shoot a 6th round anyway. Afterwards shooting at a 300 yard steel plate with the remaining rounds confirmed to me that this ammo produces flyers.)


140gr SP by Sellier & Bellot, pictured below.


131gr SP by Sellier & Bellot, pictured below. (This will be my go to load when I am out of reloads)


I plan on keeping this rifle for the long run but if anyone asked me for a recommendation I would tell them if they want a Howa don't get the 6.5x55 and if they want a 6.5x55 don't get a Howa.

 

[RPRNY]

Someone told me the twist rate on the Howa the other day. I want to say it was 1:9?

I would be curious to see what you were gettingwith bullets in the 120 gr range? I'm thinking short throat and perhaps over-reporting of twist rate. We know Howa can build a rifle, so I have to think design issue rather than QC issue.

In any event, thanks for sharing your data. The S&B 131gr results aren't bad at all. Not much looser than my 1906 M94 Sporter with the PPU 139 gr SP. My best load is 140gr Hornady SP, WLP, Norma Brass and 35.5 grs of Varget. I can't shoot well enough to get the best accuracy out of the rifle with that load.

 

[viking499]

Someone told me the twist rate on the Howa the other day. I want to say it was 1:9?

1:8 twist.

 

[GJgo]

I agree step down to 120gr & try again.

My M70 shoots 120gr TTSX great with H4831 & H1000.

 

[Float Pilot]

I have one HOWA. A 22-250 that I obtained in a trade. It shot horrible groups UNTIL,,,, I glass bedded the action and eventually the entire barrel channel. Now it shoots 1/2 inch groups.

I also recommend you try the 120 grain bullets. It is not the bullet weight that is effected (affected ? ) by the rifling, it is the bullet length.

Here are some loads I tried in a M-70 Featherweight.
6.5x55mm Winchester MODEL 70 LOADS ONLY

Federal factory 140gr Soft Point:
= 2,375 fps, 0.50 inch group.

120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip: 46.5gr RL-19, Lapua, CCI BR-2, 3.085 col
= 2,560 fps and a 1.0 inch group

120gr Sierra Match King: 46.0 gr RL-19, Lapua, BR-2, 3.085 col
= 2,508 fps and a 0.50 inch group.

120gr Hornady A-Max, 48.8gr IMR-4831, ww,ww, 2.964 col
= 2,925 fps and a 0.75 inch group Lee Crimp. High Pressure

129gr Hornady SST, 47.3gr IMR-4831, WW, WW Stand, 2.942 col
=2,808 fps and a 1.5 inch group. no crimp. Cratered primers

140gr Rem Accu-Tip, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.970 col
= 2,640 fps and a 1.0 inch group

140gr Nosler Partition, 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.950 col
= 2,569 fps and a 1.5 inch group

140gr Hornady Soft oint , 47.0gr RL-22, Lapua Brass, CCI-200, 3.850 col
= 2,575 fps and a 2.0 inch group

140gr Hornady SST. 46.5 gr RL-19, Lapua, CCI-200, 3.090 COL
= 2,570 fps and a 1.0 inch group

140gr Hornady SST, 44.5 gr H-4350, Lapua, CCI-200, 3.090 col
= 2,608 fps and a 1.5 inch group

140gr Hornady SST, 44.5gr H-100V, Lapua, CCI-200 3.090 col
=2,669 fps and a 0.50 inch group.

140gr Sierra Game King, 44.5gr H-100V, WW, WW, 2.930col
= 2,675 fps and a 0.55 inch group Lee factory Crimp, no pressure signs

140gr Hornady Soft Point, 44.5gr H-100V, ww, ww, 2.945 col
=2,680 fps and a 2.5 inch group. Lee Crimp. Some pressure signs

140gr Hornady R. N. 44.5gr H-100V, WW, WW 2.975 col
=2,620 fps and a HUGE Group, lee Crimp

140gr Hornady SST, 46.5gr IMR-4831, ww,ww, 2.995 col
=2,700 fps and a 0.75 inch group, primer flow

160gr Hornady Round Nose: 45.0 gr RL-22, PMC, Rem 9.5, 3.100 col
= 2,288 fps and a 1.5 inch group

 

[Sock Puppet]

Which stock does your gun have? I have two Howa rifles (223 and 308) with Hogue stocks and both shoot right at 1" with factory ammo if I do my part.

 

[Kachok]

I use RL22 with 140 SSTs and 140 SGKs with FANTASTIC results (46.5gr) For my 129gr I shoot 45.5gr RL19, and my 120s use a 48.5gr charge of the same powder.. All shoot beyond my skill out of my T3 most days under 1/2" and on a good day I will pull a few one hole groups. My 6.5x55 is without a doubt the most accurate centerfire I have ever shot and my favorite hunting rifle.

 

[NWcityguy2]

As someone noted the Howa is a 1:8 twist barrel. Mine has the houge stock on it which I really like. I highly doubt it is the twist because the gun is most accurate with a 140gr bullet, I just don't have any with me on the road right now to shoot and take a picture of. Besides I didn't buy a 6.5x55mm to shoot 120gr pills anyway.

On the idea of a short throat, I can't seat any spitzer bullet far enough out for it to engage the rifling while chambered. I don't have the exact OAL for my reloads with me right now but they are long loaded, with only 6.5mm of the bullet inside the neck. Over 3" OAL, but exactly what I couldn't tell you right now.

 

[Kachok]

My favorite is OAL 3.090-3.100" with an SST. That is a bit longer then factory loads but that is where I have always liked them in mine.

 

[Water-Man]

The Tikka is plenty heavy for that caliber unless you're really adverse to recoil.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

I was a little confused going through this thread because for some reason I mixed up "Howa" and "Sako." I couldn't figure out why the "Sako" wasn't perfoming better, and why people had to improve them. LOL

 

[R.W.Dale]

I didn't try as many bullet load combinations as the op with my Howa 6.5x55 however mine was fitted with an aftermarket b&c carbelite stock with no change in accuracy. Or rather lack thereof

My Howa could handle the 3.15" loads I was using in my ag42 and Mausers in terms of col. Too bad it couldn't outshoot em.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

 

[NWcityguy2]

Too bad about your Howa, did you end up selling it off? I was getting fairly nervous about my rifle too because the first two bullets I tried was the 140gr Hot-cor and SST, both of which shot so bad it made it hard to fine tune my scope adjustment. I'd have to shoot 10+ bullets before a "center" would start to emerge in my group. I was really pulling for the Hot-cor too because the price on those is unbeatable.

The Tikka is plenty heavy for that caliber unless you're really adverse to recoil.

Weight is only a bad thing when you have to carry your rifle around. I almost ended up getting a Howa in .223, and would of if I didn't reload, even though I am in no way recoil adverse. This world has plenty of manly men in it, I can wimp out without feeling guilty.

 

[Water-Man]

We are what we are.

 

[MAKster]

The Tikka T3 model in 6.5x55 also has a 8" twist rate so that doesn't seem to be the accuracy problem with the Howa.

 

[MrBorland]

As someone noted the Howa is a 1:8 twist barrel.

And that someone would be wrong. It's a 1:9, as RPRNY heard. Use your own Google fu and you would've found the specs:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...vYRYLw&sig=AHIEtbSf2KHnZnZKmmyNXoE6UtclM9O8Mw

This rifle may have the long chamber necessary for the heavier 160s (and AFAIK, the 6.5x55 has a particularly long throat), but not the twist. OTOH, it has the twist for lighter bullets, but with the bullets set far off the lands, there's a lot of freebore to jump. it's the same issue the CZ550 in 6.5 swede has, too. I don't know if this is the source of your trouble, but the 6.5x55 CZ550 I bought had the chamber set back to eliminate the long jump to the rifling, and it was nicely accurate. You might try a 130-140 grain bullet with a flat base and round-ish ogive (e.g. your Speer Hot-Cors, or Nosler Partition) and seat them a little closer to the lands, if possible.

Also, while RL22 is generally found to be a great powder for 6.5x55, you don't give load info - How much powder are you using? Have you chrono'd the loads? Are you sure you're about at the right velocity?

 

[viking499]

1:9???? Check here......

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa_baractions.html

The CZ is 1:9. Tikka is 1:8

 

[NWcityguy2]

And that someone would be wrong. It's a 1:9, as RPRNY heard. Use your own Google fu and you would've found the specs:

On the twist rate... Google fu is not needed because I physically own the rifle. 1:8 twist, I measured it myself. Confirmed by Howa's 2013 catalog. http://www.legacysports.com/catalog/LSI_2013_Catalog.html (page 40).

Basically every other concern you have has already been addressed in this thread. Bullet selection, the thought process behind it, the seating of bullets and the fact that this thread is about the Howa 1500 and not about the 6.5x55mm in general. Well except for load data, which I'm not posting because it is above current book maximum. You aren't going to learn anything from that anyway, as a complete stranger, who will live out his remaining days on God's green earth, never having the chance to get any hands on experience with my individual rifle.

 

[MrBorland]

A little more Google fu on my part, and I read that Howa used to use the slower twist, but changed to the faster.

You aren't going to learn anything from that anyway, as a complete stranger, who will live out his remaining days on God's green earth, never having the chance to get any hands on experience with my individual rifle.

Not looking to learn anything from you, thanks very much. Just suggesting you chrono the loads if you haven't already. But, we got your point - your Howa 6.5x55 sucks. Sorry to hear it.

 

[WYOMan]

My hunting rifle is a 96 with it's original barrel. I cannot touch the rifling with the bullet even in the brass. So bullet jump is not something that cannot be made to work. I would check the barrel to stock fit first. If it's floated, try putting pieces of buisness card betwwen the barrel and the foreend. Some rifles work best with a little foreend tip pressure on the barrel. I have one like this. If that doesn't solve the problem, then, as floatpilot said, glassbedding is a really good option. I have never had a rifle that did not benefit from a good bedding job.

 

[viking499]

I don't remember the whole story, but Howa 6.5's were supposed being imported a few years ago due to accuracy issues. Problems were to be fixed and imports started again. This was told to me from a guy at Legacy Sports a few years ago. Don't remember what year models were affected with the issues, but I do know they are selling them again.

 

[sixgunner455]

So, what exactly was wrong with the 140gr Interlock w/RL22? I mean, yeah, it doesn't sound like its exactly a match grade combination between the gun and load, but it'll kill anything walking if this is a hunting rifle, or be a decent control load to shoot while you work with other bullets and powders to find something you like better.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I don't remember the whole story, but Howa 6.5's were supposed being imported a few years ago due to accuracy issues. Problems were to be fixed and imports started again. This was told to me from a guy at Legacy Sports a few years ago. Don't remember what year models were affected with the issues, but I do know they are selling them again.

I bought mine about 8 months ago. No idea about the old ones.

So, what exactly was wrong with the 140gr Interlock w/RL22?

Nothing is wrong with that load. I made this thread to tell other people what I think, which is that the Howa 6.5x55 is incredibly bullet picky and probably a poor choice for someone who doesn't want to experiment or has plans on shooting a specific bullet. I'm happy with an moa gun and won't do anything more than informal competitive shooting with it.

 

[ericuda]

I also have this Howa in a Green Hogue stock purchased 2 months ago for my 13 year old son to use deer hunting. I have used PPU 139, Wolf Gold 139 SPBT and Fed Fusion 140 factory loads and all shoot within 1" at 100 yds. I settled on Hornady Amax 100gr with 46.5 R19 and Sierra 140 Spitzer BT with 35.5 H4895 for my reloads and they both shoot better than factory.

Wouldn't think it would matter much but this is the first rifle that I went through the break in procedure of shoot 1 clean, etc etc.

I would highly recommend this rifle, OTD was $600 at the LGS with a Nikko Stirling 3.5x10 illuminated reticle scope, rings and base included.

BTW kid got his first deer, a wt doe with the 140 Spitzers and she dropped like a rock.