Accuracy Of Ghost Ring Sights On A Carbine

[Plan2Live]

I'm giving serious consideration to a side loading .357 lever action carbine. I'm leaning toward the Marlin 1894 CST because of the all weather finish but see that it comes with XS Ghost Ring Sights. I've never shot ghost ring sights and am curious to hear about their accuracy. No I don't want a red dot, I want open sights. Has anyone used the ghost ring sights on a carbine? If yes, how would you rate their accuracy.

 

[badkarmamib]

Over the traditional buckhorn sights, MUCH easier to align. Depending on the size of the aperture, and your own vision, they may be a tad more accurate, or a whole lot more accurate. Also, the ghost ring is usually mounted on the rear of the receiver, traditional buckhorn rears are usually mounted a bit down the barrel, so sight radius will also be greatly increased.

 

[dave951]

For target accuracy, a ghost ring ain't it. It is reasonably accurate, but it's main strengths are quick to aim and useful in low light. A lot also depends on your eyesight

 

[chicharrones]

I'm giving serious consideration to a side loading .357 lever action carbine. I'm leaning toward the Marlin 1894 CST because of the all weather finish but see that it comes with XS Ghost Ring Sights. I've never shot ghost ring sights and am curious to hear about their accuracy. No I don't want a red dot, I want open sights. Has anyone used the ghost ring sights on a carbine? If yes, how would you rate their accuracy.

My 1894 CSBL came with those XS sights and rail.

If you can see a handgun front sight in focus, the XS front sight should be in focus for you and the ghost ring sight should work well enough.

If a handgun front sight is a bit blurry, the XS front sight will be a bit blurry as the rear ghost ring is large enough not to enhance the focus of that front sight like smaller aperture sights can do.

I'm about to order this so I can install smaller apertures which will give me the choice of more accuracy, or remove the aperture for more speed/low light usage.

However, it looks to be the aperture post only. From some internet research, my spare Williams apertures for my other guns will fit.

My CSBL came with the long stem 0.191" ID aperture. It looks like the CST comes with short stem apertures and has one more size to choose from at XS.
https://www.xssights.com/products.aspx?CAT=9184

 

[jeepnik]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

 

[jeepnik]

dreaded double post.

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[DocRock]

Get a Williams FP aperture sight for it. For target work, the small aperture works great. If you need close range, rapid acquisition sights, remove the aperture disc and, voila: ghost ring.

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[briansmithwins]

It seems intuitive that a large aperture would cause bigger groups.

That intuition is wrong. Bloke on the Range turns in a very credible group at 300m using the battle sight on a Lee Enfield no4:

BSW

 

[TonyAngel]

The larger the ring the lesser the accuracy. If you take a look I mounted this one backwards. It moved the aperture slightly forward giving it the effect of being smaller. For my eyes it works great. Just something to think about.

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

 

[chicharrones]

It seems intuitive that a large aperture would cause bigger groups.

That intuition is wrong. Bloke on the Range turns in a very credible group at 300m using the battle sight on a Lee Enfield no4:

BSW

In my experience, those front sight protective wings help a shooter to center a front sight in a ghost ring rear. The XS front sight has no protective wings, which makes the task a bit more difficult.

 

[film495]

I have an old Redfield aperture sight, the various size apertures are readily available, and they just screw in and out to change in seconds. The sizes are more based on light condition than aim. If I'm getting it right, for example, on a mid day sight in a field during summer on a bright day - you might want a smaller aperture than you would want on the same day, if you were deep in the woods and it was later in the day. It is pretty intuitive to align to the center of the aperture, I find them a touch faster then traditional open sights for what it is worth.

 

[JohnB-40]

I'm into a Marble's tang sight on my '73. I can switch the 3 apertures depending on the light,or remove and use it as a ghost ring. Fine for my old eyes.

 

[Dibbs]

I like my Ghost Ring sights, but that's just personal preference, i guess. Try them, you can always go back to buckhorns, or some other open sight system.

 

[chicharrones]

My 1894 CSBL came with those XS sights and rail.

If you can see a handgun front sight in focus, the XS front sight should be in focus for you and the ghost ring sight should work well enough.

If a handgun front sight is a bit blurry, the XS front sight will be a bit blurry as the rear ghost ring is large enough not to enhance the focus of that front sight like smaller aperture sights can do.

I'm about to order this so I can install smaller apertures which will give me the choice of more accuracy, or remove the aperture for more speed/low light usage.

However, it looks to be the aperture post only. From some internet research, my spare Williams apertures for my other guns will fit.

My CSBL came with the long stem 0.191" ID aperture. It looks like the CST comes with short stem apertures and has one more size to choose from at XS.
https://www.xssights.com/products.aspx?CAT=9184

Just a follow up to say the XS aperture post with the threaded inside diameter has arrived. My Williams apertures screw right in as I hoped they would.

 

[Varminterror]

It seems intuitive that a large aperture would cause bigger groups.

That intuition is wrong. Bloke on the Range turns in a very credible group at 300m using the battle sight on a Lee Enfield no4:

BSW

A protected front sight and huge targets downfield will accommodate a broad range of aperture diameters. Take away the wings on the front sight and take away the ~6MOA aiming black - such as using the XS sights on an 1894 used for hunting - and things get a lot more interesting.

 

[mustanger98]

I killed my first deer with a Winchester .30-30 that wore a Lyman #2 with a more open aperture... 90yds out and 15mins before sundown. On a 100yd square range, checking the sights earlier that day, I fired two rounds... one centerpunched a .5" dot at 25yds, then the second busted a clay bird on the berm. My third round for the day was the one that got my deer. I've seen no reason to discount ghost ring sights.

 

[Tentwing]

All but two of my lever guns wear some form of aperture sight. I have learned the smaller the aperture the easier to tighten the groups. Throw in a front sight hood and it gets even easier. The trade off for me has always been smaller apertures make target acquisitions a little slower than larger apertures.

Tentwing

 

[Ryden]

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

This works for me too. Take note of where my rear backup sight is. It's precise enough to hit a clay pigeon at 100 yards with regularity....https://photos.app.goo.gl/fULYGbZtqwjC41VU9

The dreaded septuple post! I thought it did not exist outside of East German laboratories!

A ghost ring works on a different principle than a peep sight.

A ghost ring works by the eye centering the front sight in the blurred circle of the rear sight, something our brains are surprisingly good at.
A peep sight provides a sharp circle and if the aperture is small enough (about 3/64) some new stuff happens as well

The light is collimated on passage of the aperture, that means that the incoming light will be parallell rather than the scattered light we normally see which enhance clarity.
The depth of field will be increased so you can have the target as well as the front sight in focus.
The circle will be small enough that we do not consciously have to center the front sight and we can focus our attention fully on lining up the front sight on the target

The parallax of any open sight system is equal to the sight radius, but with a small diopter parallax is more or less taken out of the equation because of the very small possible angle error.

A front hood and a post with the top centered in it helps considerably, the G3 has this type of setup and I've shot surprisingly good groups even in low light conditions.
I'm trying to make the same kind of setup om my project bolt rifle.

All in all I recommend the ghost sight as a better alternative to the traditional open sights, if it's threaded for inserts that's a big bonus

 

[idek]

I got the same threaded aperture post that chicharrones mentioned. In addition to working with the Williams apertures, it works with the Skinner apertures I already had. I like it.

As for the comments about whether bigger or smaller apertures are best, I've had the best results with what Skinner calls their Large aperture (0.125"). Much smaller than a ghost ring, but still their second largest of five aperture options. The smaller ones might be fine from a bench in bright sunlight, but for field shooting positions in various lighting conditions, they are too dim for me.