Accurate 2495 powder for .308 Winchester?

[skypirate7]

Hi friends,

What's your opinion/experience regarding Accurate 2495 powder for .308 Winchester loads? I'm looking at it for a bolt gun with a 22 inch barrel. How is it for 155gr, 168gr, and 175gr loads?

 

[bdgackle]

I have never used it, but both Varget and H4895 are widely considered among the best powders out there for .308. AA 2495 is right between those two on the burn rate chart. This would indicate that it is a very good choice across a pretty wide range of bullet weights in that caliber.

 

[MEHavey]

Like Universal as a (near) 1-1 sperical substitute for flake(y) Unique, AA2496 is supposed to the same for extruded IMR4895.
I've used it in the 223 (which likes similar powders to the 308 class), so it "ought" to do similarly well.

And as Salmfire has noted in a post long, long... Loooog tiem ago:

> Accurate Arms AA2495 is a copy of IMR 4895. I called Accurate Arms
> about AA2495, they said it duplicates the IMR pressure curve. Stupidly
> they call it AA2495 instead of AA4895, which confuses everyone.
> Charge for velocity, I was unable to see any meaning difference over
> the chronograph.

 

[skypirate7]

Thanks guys

 

[Slamfire]

I am a Muslim, but fortunately the people here do not read English

Ha, ha.

Arabic script is a beautiful script and is to be found on coins from Medieval England.. The staunch Catholics of 700 AD did not know the coins were inscribed with “there is no God but Allah alone”! http://www.britishmuseum.org/explor...bjects/cm/g/gold_imitation_dinar_of_offa.aspx

Still, it is best not to have hidden messages that might be misconstrued as taking advantage of another's ignorance of the language.

I called Accurate Arms when this powder was new on the market and they told me it was a copy of IMR 4895. They said they mixed it so the pressure curve was the same.

At the time it cost less than IMR 4895 and it shot exceptionally well in the 308 case. If you don’t know the 7.62 Nato cartridge was developed with IMR 4895 as the propellant. I used 27 pounds of the stuff earning my Distinguished Rifleman Badge with it in 308 M1a’s.

I have shot 155 Noslers and they shoot well, but 99% of my target shooting is with 168’s. With the heavier LC cases, 41.5 grains is a maximum load with a 168. I consider 41.0 grains a maximum with 175’s.

With a 155 Nosler and 42.5 grains IMR 4895 I got 2700 fps and excellent accuracy you should be able to use the same powder charge with AA2495.

The 308 really runs out of gas with bullets heavier than 175, but “back in the day”, top target shooters used IMR 4064 with 190’s at 600 yards and 1000 yards. In bolt guns, don’t shoot 190’s in any service rifle.

[B][SIZE="3"]M70 				
24 " Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist	[/B]				
							
168 Nosler 41.0 AA2495 Lot 21594  CCI#34 LC Mixed  OAL 2.8"		
							
30-Apr-03	T = 82° F						
		 			 	 	
Ave Vel =	2567					 	
Std Dev =	8					 	
ES =	19					 	
Low =	2556				 	 	
High =	2575				 		
N =	7		 				



[B]M70  26" Kreiger Barrel, four groove, 1:10 twist[/B]
						
168 Sierra 42.0 AA2495 thrown R-P cases, Fed 210S		
						
30 April 98 T= 72F					
						
Ave Vel =	2642					
Std Dev =	36					
ES =	111					
Low =	2595					
High =	2706					
N =	10					
						
168.2 to 168.5 Sierra 42.5 gr AA2495 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210M	
						
20 Sept 96 T = 82F					
						
Ave Vel =	2689					
Std Dev =	4					
ES =	9					
Low =	2684					
High =	2693					
N =	5					



[B]M1A Super Match		1/10" 6 groove Douglas[/B]		

168 gr Sierra Match 41.5 gr AA2495 wtd.  LC77 WLR OAL 2.800
		
T = 75- 80 °F	22-Apr-99						
Ave Vel =	2588			 	 		
Std Dev =	16						
ES =	48						
Low =	2564						
High =	2612						
N =	6

						
175 gr Sierra Match 40.5 gr AA2495 LC65 W/W OAL 2.800			
	29-Jun-96						
Ave Vel =	2523						
Std Dev =	22						
ES =	65						
Low =	2489						
High =	2554						
N =	10						
							
175 gr Sierra Match 41.0 gr AA2495 LC82 W/W OAL 2.800			
29-Jun-96							
Ave Vel =	2528						
Std Dev =	23						
ES =	89						
Low =	2481						
High =	2570						
N =	10						
							
175 gr Sierra Match 41.5 gr AA2495 LC87 W/W OAL 2.800			
	29-Jun-96						
Ave Vel =	2579						
Std Dev =	13						
ES =	40						
Low =	2564						
High =	2604						
N =	10						
		[/SIZE]

 

[skypirate7]

Ha, ha.

Arabic script is a beautiful script and is to be found on coins from Medieval England.. The staunch Catholics of 700 AD did not know the coins were inscribed with “there is no God but Allah alone”! http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore...r_of_offa.aspx

Still, it is best not to have hidden messages that might be misconstrued as taking advantage of another's ignorance of the language.

أنا مسلم ولكن لحسن الحظ الناس هنا لا يقرأون العربية

I am a Muslim, but fortunately the people here do not read Arabic

Hehe... I was wondering how long this signature would go unnoticed but now I'm red in the face and in retrospect it was probably a silly thing to do. By the way, Google translator mistakenly translates the word for "Arabic" into "English." I posted the accurate translation of my signature above.

My intention was certainly not to offend anyone's intelligence (and I apologize if I did), rather, it was my own humorous way to respond to the more-than-a-few people on gun forums that find it amusing to post كافر (infidel) in their signature lines. It can be tough being an American Muslim on a gun forum. I've gotten used to ignoring the occasional bigot (arguing with them is futile) and anonymity enables me to discuss the hobby I love, even with people who may hate my guts. However, when I realized that those same people who post anti-Muslim Arabic script would probably assume that all Arabic script on this forum is anti-Muslim, I couldn't pass up on the opportunity for some delicious irony. It was fun while it lasted.

I called Accurate Arms when this powder was new on the market and they told me it was a copy of IMR 4895. They said they mixed it so the pressure curve was the same.

At the time it cost less than IMR 4895 and it shot exceptionally well in the 308 case. If you don’t know the 7.62 Nato cartridge was developed with IMR 4895 as the propellant. I used 27 pounds of the stuff earning my Distinguished Rifleman Badge with it in 308 M1a’s.

I have shot 155 Noslers and they shoot well, but 99% of my target shooting is with 168’s. With the heavier LC cases, 41.5 grains is a maximum load with a 168. I consider 41.0 grains a maximum with 175’s.

With a 155 Nosler and 42.5 grains IMR 4895 I got 2700 fps and excellent accuracy you should be able to use the same powder charge with AA2495.

The 308 really runs out of gas with bullets heavier than 175, but “back in the day”, top target shooters used IMR 4064 with 190’s at 600 yards and 1000 yards. In bolt guns, don’t shoot 190’s in any service rifle.

Awesome info and thanks for sharing your load data. I've got 155's, 168's, and 175's on order and it's good to know these should work well.

I did read that the 308 was developed around IMR 4895 and that's why I went with AA2495. With that said, some of the burn rate charts I've seen showed AA2495 as being faster-burning than IMR 4895... basically in between Hodgdon 4895 and IMR 3895. And there are a lot of fans of Varget, which is relatively-speaking a slower-burning powder. So it made me wonder if AA2495 was a good choice or if it was a little bit faster-burning-than-ideal. Based on your feedback, it sounds like I have no reason to worry. Thanks again.

 

[RE-15]

I knew all along. I just didn't feel like saying anything.

 

[Slamfire]

I did read that the 308 was developed around IMR 4895 and that's why I went with AA2495. With that said, some of the burn rate charts I've seen showed AA2495 as being faster-burning than IMR 4895... basically in between Hodgdon 4895 and IMR 3895. And there are a lot of fans of Varget, which is relatively-speaking a slower-burning powder. So it made me wonder if AA2495 was a good choice or if it was a little bit faster-burning-than-ideal. Based on your feedback, it sounds like I have no reason to worry. Thanks again.

Any burn rate differences between IMR 4895, AA2495 and H4895 are more due to lot to lot differences than anything else. In the 80's, when H4895 was introduced, it was a copy of IMR 4895.

The powders we used are blended, Accurate says they hold to 5%, industry standard 10%.

The 308 shoots well with a bunch of powders, Varget is an excellent choice. I tested it with 168's and am shooting it with 190's in the 308. My F class friends are using it at 1000 yards with 185 bergers.

Out of the powders I have tested in the 308: AA2520, IMR 3031, IMR 4895, AA 2495, H4895, IMR 4064, AA4064, N135, N140, Varget, IMR 4350 (190's), if you can't shoot sub MOA groups with all of these powders, you are not trying hard enough.

 

[skypirate7]

Any burn rate differences between IMR 4895, AA2495 and H4895 are more due to lot to lot differences than anything else. In the 80's, when H4895 was introduced, it was a copy of IMR 4895.

The powders we used are blended, Accurate says they hold to 5%, industry standard 10%.

So is AA2495 better than IMR 4895? Powdervalley has both in stock. I know they are both extruded (but so is Varget). Do these meter ok? I plan on using a Lee auto-disk.

The 308 shoots well with a bunch of powders, Varget is an excellent choice. I tested it with 168's and am shooting it with 190's in the 308. My F class friends are using it at 1000 yards with 185 bergers.

Out of the powders I have tested in the 308: AA2520, IMR 3031, IMR 4895, AA 2495, H4895, IMR 4064, AA4064, N135, N140, Varget, IMR 4350 (190's), if you can't shoot sub MOA groups with all of these powders, you are not trying hard enough.

It sounds like Varget is your favorite but it's reassuring to hear you believe all are accurate choices. I want to use AA2495 up to 800 yards.

 

[Slamfire]

So is AA2495 better than IMR 4895? Powdervalley has both in stock. I know they are both extruded (but so is Varget). Do these meter ok? I plan on using a Lee auto-disk.

Buy by price.

I am leaning towards the Hodgdon extreme powders, H4895 and Varget are both “extreme” powders. Apparently the Australian supplier has developed advanced coatings and that may count for something, though I don’t know how anyone would see it in a hand held rifle.
Varget is an advanced powder, I have got to use it more, but it may replace IMR 4895 as my most “versatile” powder.

Still, if I can get a deal on IMR 4895 or AA2495, I buy those.

I have found that shooter errors are the largest factors for inaccuracy. Once I get a good load, if I am not hitting the ten ring, it is not the load.


As for metering, my Dillion 550B tosses IMR 4895 or AA2495 or H4895 to plus or minus half a grain. I don't know how an Auto Disk would work, but out to 300 yards, I can't tell much of a difference with thrown charges. I shoot max loads at 600 yards and I weigh those charges. Though my scores with thrown ammunition at 600 yards were excellent, hard to tell with the 4895 powders just how much weighing improves things, if at all.

 

[skypirate7]

Interesting. I didn't know they were "extreme" powders but I guess that gives them a small edge. They are almost impossible to find though.

Since I've got 8 pounds of AA2495 on order, I'll stick with that.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So is AA2495 better than IMR 4895? Powder Valley has both in stock. I know they are both extruded (but so is Varget). Do these meter ok? I plan on using a Lee auto-disk.

It sounds like Varget is your favorite but it's reassuring to hear you believe all are accurate choices. I want to use AA2495 up to 800 yards.

Like said above, H4895, IMR4895 and AA2495 are all very close in performance. Which is "better" is probably a function of your rifle than the powder itself.

If you are looking for good metering I would suggest AA2520 which is the Ball Powder equivalent of AA2495. Considering AA2520 is nicknamed "The Camp Perry Powder" I would think it's an accurate powder so no worries there. Problem is, no 8lb jugs of IMR4895, H4895, AA2495 or AA2520 in stock at Powder Valley and only AA2495 is in stock in 1lb jugs. (not very economical)

 

[skypirate7]

Powdervalley's stock of powder has been fluctuating week-by-week. My 8lb order of AA2495 was placed a couple weeks ago when it was in stock so it should be coming... but they are just behind on shipping due to the overwhelming orders as you can imagine.

They did have IMR4895 and even Varget (gasp!) a week ago. Varget went out-of-stock within a couple hours and IMR4895 lasted about 24 hours.

 

[cdb1]

I am new to reloading and don't want to do anything stupid. Bought 2 lbs of Accurate 2495 from Powder Valley and it will be here Tuesday. I purchased it because several people told me it was good for .308 and 30-06, and was pretty much identical to IMR 4895, and like everyone else I'm having a hard time finding powder. I have done quite a bit of searching and can find very little load data for it. Would it be safe to use IMR 4895 data for Accurate 2495?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yes, IMR4895, H4895, AA2495 and the ball powder equivalent AA2520 are all very close in performance but the load data is slightly different and NOT interchangeable for all 4. They are all ballistic twins or should I say quadruplets? LOL

 

[ironworkerwill]

I am very much a Christian. I do not hate anyone for their religious belief. Anyone professing to hate you or your kind is surely not a follower of the Prince of peace. I understand your position though. I must say, it is bold to confess.