Adding dimples to a Saiga.

[Deus Machina]

I love having money in hand and an FFL within walking distance.

Anyway. This may need to be in the smithing section, but this feels a little more fitting...

For those of you who've done Saiga conversions, have you experienced mag wobble without the dimples?

If it turns out I need to add them, is this something a standard smith can do? Otherwise, I could fab up a couple plates in the shape of the dimples, but would need to know that there's enough room to add the plates, drill holes, and screw the plates into place. And the actual dimensions of the dimples.

How do the dimples work, for lack of a better term? Do they rub on the mag, or a particular part of it, or simply limit wobble?

 

[Z71]

I own a WASR without the dimples. Does have some mag wobble. Doesn't seem to affect anything.

Al the dimples do is help keep the mag centered. After shooting a buddy's Romanian SAR with the dimples, it dawned on me that his mags wobble about as much as my dimpleless WASR!

I've got five basicaly identical steel mags for my WASR-10. Two of these have a lot of wobble. a couple wobble a little, and one is reasonably wobble free.

With ammunition in the mags, none wobble or rattle to any degree. All work fine. The wobble I only notice with an empty gun and mags in place.

Not that big a deal, and a set of dimples is no sure cure!

 

[MIL-DOT]

My Saigas have no dimples, and all but one odd mag fit very securely.

 

[DinoCrayon]

My saiga is without dimples too, and it doesnt wobble. Have you tried different kinds of mags?

 

[nalioth]

The Saigas come with the same mag stabilizing plates found in the modern RPK machine guns.

You should have no mag wobble at all.

Adding dimples will destroy your rifle.

The WASRs come with extra thick plates to stabilize the narrow-necked single-stack mag. When the drunk Century monkeys hog out the mag well, they're not very careful and 'mag wobble' usually results. The Saiga mag well does not need "hogging out".

 

[SSN Vet]

I've seen photos of the earlier EAA import Saiga with dimples, but not of the newer RAA imports.

I have a "non dimpled" RAA Saiga and have not observed any mag wobble.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

When the drunk Century monkeys hog out the mag well, they're not very careful and 'mag wobble' usually results.

You're insulting drunken monkeys everywhere--at least those monkeys probably had actual ethyl alcohol to drink unlike the poor buggers at Cugir who made the weapon and probably have to resort to wood alcohol on occasion when the cabbage funds run low.

That said, I do like my new WASR-10 and the wobble isn't bad. No dimples--I like my rifles expressionless and stoic.

 

[Leif Runenritzer]

I imagine that AKs are dimpled when the receiver is still flat and its steel is yet to be hardened.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I imagine that AKs are dimpled when the receiver is still flat and its steel is yet to be hardened.

I remember reading somewhere that stamping mag dimples to an assembled AK is not recommended due the heat treatment of the receiver. I don't know much about metallurgy or gunsmithing so that is all I can say about that.

It's too bad people still trash-talk the WASRs but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe some really are that bad, but I haven't one that didn't work. At any rate, my GP WASR-10 doesn't have mag dimples and although there is some wobble (more wobble with some mags, less wobble with other mags), it doesn't affect performance/reliability in any way.

 

[Prince Yamato]

I have two dimpled AKs (Maadi and MAK-90) and they experience wobble. All AK mags wobble a little. None of the mags are made to tight tolerances. Plastic mags wobble less than steel. If you want to cut down on the sound of the steel mags banging around. A cheap fix is plumbers tape. Wrap it around the part of the mag that contacts the receiver. The mag will now be quiet.

FWIW, the newer WASRs don't have as huge a problem with mag wobble. Also, there's some Romanian guns coming in from Century that have dimpled mag wells.

 

[forrestd]

Receiver dimples are to add rigidity to the receiver. Magazine wobble is usually due to the magazine well being too large. If you really feel like you need to tighten up the fit, I would add shims on either side of the inside of the receiver until it fits how you want it to. I wouldn't mess with it if it works fine though.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I wouldn't mess with it if it works fine though.

This is a point that should be stressed more often. I've seen so many people screw up various things (not just guns) by tinkering unnecessarily. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Deus Machina]

I haven't started cutting yet. So no wobble yet.

How badly are magazines off, generally? If they stick to a fairly close spec, I can just cut it out to a few thou less than a Century, or something.

 

[nalioth]

I haven't started cutting yet. So no wobble yet.

How badly are magazines off, generally? If they stick to a fairly close spec, I can just cut it out to a few thou less than a Century, or something.

I'm not sure you understand.

The Saiga mag wells do not need cutting. They come cut for military mags.

It's the mag catch that might need some attention.


Please do not cut your Saiga mag well.

 

[Deus Machina]

Ahhh. Well, that's good to know. Just a misunderstanding from the conversion guide I had skimmed through. A catch would be a lot less work, too.

 

[Deus Machina]

Well, another quick question then...

Since I will end up moving the trigger guard when I convert, and don't much like the jumbled-together look of cramming it under the stock mag release...

Would replacing that mag release with a standard AK one alleviate the need to modify the mags, if indeed they need it? Or would it be positioned awkwardly?

 

[SSN Vet]

don't much like the jumbled-together look of cramming it under the stock mag release...

Have your actually seen one or are you just speculating?

Would replacing that mag release with a standard AK one alleviate the need to modify the mags,

yes

if indeed they need it?

When you convert the Saiga sporter, you either need to enlarge the mag. catch notch (which will render your factory supplied 10 rounder unuseable) or you grind down the tab on the mil. surp mags (which will render them unuseable in a standard AK).

Or would it be positioned awkwardly?

It will be positioned exactly the same, but I hope you like to play with rivots.

Read this link and you'll know everything there is to know about x39 Saiga mag. mods....

http://www.dinzagarms.com/downloads/x39_mag_options.pdf

 

[nalioth]

When you convert the Saiga sporter, you either need to enlarge the mag. catch notch (which will render your factory supplied 10 rounder unuseable)

I beg to differ.

If you're not a heavy handed Century monkey, you can relieve just enough so that both the factory and surplus mags work (if you wish).

don't much like the jumbled-together look of cramming it under the stock mag release...

Have your actually seen one or are you just speculating?

Not sure I see the "jumbled-together" part. . .





Can you show me?


P.S. I think you're really really really over-thinking the operation. Chill out. When you get your Saiga, it'll all come clear.

 

[Deus Machina]

I've seen a few, but none up close. Most were garage jobs; appearently you can't chain monkeys in the house.

I think I'll need it in hand to inspect, yes, and I'll be digging up more conversion guides. The couple I've seen leave this particular part a little unclear.

Thanks for the link, SSN.

As for rivets, I'd have to check if i could manage that where these are. I'll be using screws and Loctite where I can, because I've got bins of unobtrusive allen heads around.

 

[22_Shooter]

+1 on the mag catch issue. I filed the mag catch when I converted mine, and I can still lock in factory 10's.

 

[Deus Machina]

Alright, clearing this up...

I can file the mag catch (The spring-loaded lever in front of the trigger guard, correct me if you mean the ledge on the magazine) at the front and/or bottom, and use milsurp magazines.

All I would need at that point would be the bullet guide, at which point I could modify the stock mag and still (possibly) use that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

[nalioth]

Alright, clearing this up...

I can file the mag catch (The spring-loaded lever in front of the trigger guard, correct me if you mean the ledge on the magazine) at the front and/or bottom, and use milsurp magazines.

All I would need at that point would be the bullet guide, at which point I could modify the stock mag and still (possibly) use that.

There are possibly 240,000,000 7.62x39 AKM magazines out there.

Did you want to modify the gun once or spend a lifetime filing magazines to fit it [and be limited to just those mags]?

You can grind either one. Make a decision.

 

[Deus Machina]

Well, that's what I meant. Grinding the catch (the one on the gun, not the magazine) does work, and I should just disregard the guy at the shop telling me to forget that and cut the mags.