Willie Sutton
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,025
"My expectation is that the firearm (cased rifle), having been declared and duly checked as a "special item" on the front end of the trip, be handled as the horribly dangerous and hazardous item it is feared to be at the destination end of the trip. Is that too much to ask?"
In a word, YES.
Your expectations are completely unrealistic and are formed in a paradigm that is not based on the way things really work.
Having been at one time an airline pilot, who also checked a firearm as baggage many many many times and still does, here's the deal:
Your bag, once you hand it to the baggage people, is just another anonomous bag, no different than any other. It is not subjected to any special treatment, and passes thru the baggage system *just like any other bag*. It is ILLEGAL for it to be marked externally or tagged as a firearm, and NOBODY who does not open the outer case to find the TSA "permission slip" will ever know that there's a firearm inside *unless you are so stupid that you carry it in a case that screams out 'gun' " So don't do that.
If your bag is carrying a handgun, it'll be found on the baggage claim belt like any other bag. If it's oversized... like skis, golf clubs, or a...harp, for example... it will be in the baggage handling office or put off to the side *simply because it does not fit on the automated baggage belt* and you need to go find it. Guess what? If it's a large rifle case it'll be off to the side. Get over it... and go claim it. Know what? The average set of decent golf clubs or skis is worth more than your average rifle. None of it gets any special treatment. It's just another bag....
Think about this from another angle:
You declare a firearm to TSA (and retain the key to the case) simply so that the TSA screeners STOP SEARCHING when they come to it in a screening after you check it. They see the TSA form, and they do not break into the bag or case to continue a search which they are entitled to do for any other bag containg any other item. Basicaly it's a hands off form. If they want to see what's in the case, they need to call you or contact you and you will then need to go rejoin your bag and open it using the key that you retained when you checked the bag. The declaration is there to protect your property from being looked at outside of your presence.
Suggestion for rifles: break them down if you can and stick them into a suitcase. If you cannot, you are going to need to deal with accepting that the case will be treated just like a set of skis. You are going to need to use the baggage special-services claim area just like any other sportsman on a trip. Obviously the more anonomous the case looks, the less attention it will attract. But from my personal behind the scenes experience... bag handlers are *really busy* workers. They are just moving boxes from one belt to another and could care less what's inside. Don't put your cool-lection of gun stickers on the outside of the case and the chances are that nobody will really even notice your bag at all.
It's...just...another...bag...among...thousands. Really.
"With airports, airlines and TSA all uber-nervous about security and firearms, I guess I had an expectation that a cased rifle would be held for pick up at a baggage claim window. I guess I had the expectation that it would not go down the slide and be generally available for anyone to grab. I guess I had the expectation that it would not be moved by some unknown person, baggage handler or otherwise, to a an unsupervised and unsecured area next to some golf bags"
The "input side security" is there for one reason: it ensures that there is no need for any further special treatment "downstream" in the baggage flow cycle. Once it's accepted... it's just a bag. Here's the thing to remember: Unless you case it in a bag that screams GUN, nobody in the baggage area knows that there is a gun inside. So let your bag be anonomous and low key. The airlines have neither the time or inclination to handle your rifle case any differently than someones dirty clothing in a duffle bag. Once it's entered into the maw of the beast it'll come out of the other end just like anything else the system devours.
Here's another hint: If you REALLY REALLY REALLY want your property to come to you with 100% safety, on an airliner, use another airline. If you want your bag to be secured from start to stop, with bulletproof security, signature and tracking, and ID required to collect it, there is a perfect airline that will be happy to do all of that for you. It's called FEDEX. Ship it to yourself the day before and have it held at the FEDEX`cargo terminal at the airport where you are headed (all airports worth their salt have a FEDEX cargo office over in "cargo city" at the other end of the airport). Walk up to the FEDEX "bag claim office" and collect your bag after showing your identification. It's how I get the $25K of scuba diving equipment that I carry on expeditions to my destination with 100% efficiency. Know what? It costs *thru the nose* to get this level of security, more at times than my own ticket. Your property is either worth it, or it isn't. You are free to choose the level of service and security that you are willing to pay for. Pretty simple economics. And yes FEDEX will ship your firearm.... if you deal directly with FEDEX and not with a local "pack and ship" spot.
Thinking that the generic people-carrying airline is going to do all of that for a $25 bag charge when you check your bag in Detroit headed for Dallas is simply not the real world. Heck, they charge for a COKE on most airlines... why would they put special security on your bag... for free?
Willie
.
In a word, YES.
Your expectations are completely unrealistic and are formed in a paradigm that is not based on the way things really work.
Having been at one time an airline pilot, who also checked a firearm as baggage many many many times and still does, here's the deal:
Your bag, once you hand it to the baggage people, is just another anonomous bag, no different than any other. It is not subjected to any special treatment, and passes thru the baggage system *just like any other bag*. It is ILLEGAL for it to be marked externally or tagged as a firearm, and NOBODY who does not open the outer case to find the TSA "permission slip" will ever know that there's a firearm inside *unless you are so stupid that you carry it in a case that screams out 'gun' " So don't do that.
If your bag is carrying a handgun, it'll be found on the baggage claim belt like any other bag. If it's oversized... like skis, golf clubs, or a...harp, for example... it will be in the baggage handling office or put off to the side *simply because it does not fit on the automated baggage belt* and you need to go find it. Guess what? If it's a large rifle case it'll be off to the side. Get over it... and go claim it. Know what? The average set of decent golf clubs or skis is worth more than your average rifle. None of it gets any special treatment. It's just another bag....
Think about this from another angle:
You declare a firearm to TSA (and retain the key to the case) simply so that the TSA screeners STOP SEARCHING when they come to it in a screening after you check it. They see the TSA form, and they do not break into the bag or case to continue a search which they are entitled to do for any other bag containg any other item. Basicaly it's a hands off form. If they want to see what's in the case, they need to call you or contact you and you will then need to go rejoin your bag and open it using the key that you retained when you checked the bag. The declaration is there to protect your property from being looked at outside of your presence.
Suggestion for rifles: break them down if you can and stick them into a suitcase. If you cannot, you are going to need to deal with accepting that the case will be treated just like a set of skis. You are going to need to use the baggage special-services claim area just like any other sportsman on a trip. Obviously the more anonomous the case looks, the less attention it will attract. But from my personal behind the scenes experience... bag handlers are *really busy* workers. They are just moving boxes from one belt to another and could care less what's inside. Don't put your cool-lection of gun stickers on the outside of the case and the chances are that nobody will really even notice your bag at all.
It's...just...another...bag...among...thousands. Really.
"With airports, airlines and TSA all uber-nervous about security and firearms, I guess I had an expectation that a cased rifle would be held for pick up at a baggage claim window. I guess I had the expectation that it would not go down the slide and be generally available for anyone to grab. I guess I had the expectation that it would not be moved by some unknown person, baggage handler or otherwise, to a an unsupervised and unsecured area next to some golf bags"
The "input side security" is there for one reason: it ensures that there is no need for any further special treatment "downstream" in the baggage flow cycle. Once it's accepted... it's just a bag. Here's the thing to remember: Unless you case it in a bag that screams GUN, nobody in the baggage area knows that there is a gun inside. So let your bag be anonomous and low key. The airlines have neither the time or inclination to handle your rifle case any differently than someones dirty clothing in a duffle bag. Once it's entered into the maw of the beast it'll come out of the other end just like anything else the system devours.
Here's another hint: If you REALLY REALLY REALLY want your property to come to you with 100% safety, on an airliner, use another airline. If you want your bag to be secured from start to stop, with bulletproof security, signature and tracking, and ID required to collect it, there is a perfect airline that will be happy to do all of that for you. It's called FEDEX. Ship it to yourself the day before and have it held at the FEDEX`cargo terminal at the airport where you are headed (all airports worth their salt have a FEDEX cargo office over in "cargo city" at the other end of the airport). Walk up to the FEDEX "bag claim office" and collect your bag after showing your identification. It's how I get the $25K of scuba diving equipment that I carry on expeditions to my destination with 100% efficiency. Know what? It costs *thru the nose* to get this level of security, more at times than my own ticket. Your property is either worth it, or it isn't. You are free to choose the level of service and security that you are willing to pay for. Pretty simple economics. And yes FEDEX will ship your firearm.... if you deal directly with FEDEX and not with a local "pack and ship" spot.
Thinking that the generic people-carrying airline is going to do all of that for a $25 bag charge when you check your bag in Detroit headed for Dallas is simply not the real world. Heck, they charge for a COKE on most airlines... why would they put special security on your bag... for free?
Willie
.
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