AK-Derivative Full-Power Rifles (PSL, M76 etc.) Some Questions

[M5-Shogun]

Hey guys,

I am not currently in the market for one of these, but I've always been really interested in the Zastava M76 and PSL rifles because they shoot a full-power cartridge from an AK action and have the side-mount scope system similar to other rifles of the Soviet Bloc

I don't suppose I could get both some questions answered, and some testimonials from people who've owned them?

For M76 owners:

1. How good is the ZRAK scope they come with, and what's the sight picture like?
2. Looks like more of a chin weld with the stock it comes with - is that true?
3. How do they shoot? Would you recommend them?

For PSL owners:

1. Are there any modifications or replacement tritium cylinders to be found to fix the scope optics?
2. Again, how's the shooting performance?
3. How good are the magazines? Is it easy to avoid rimlock?
4. Would you recommend them?

For any other derivatives I've missed, it's because I don't know that much about the full-power round AK derivatives. If there's any oddballs or options I haven't asked about or considered, please feel free to chime in.

For those curious why I have an interest, I'll be honest - purely for aesthetic reasons and because I have a decent amount of 8x57 and 54r type ammo (.308 as well, if there's any options there) and I've never been a huge fan of alternative gas-op options out there. If I was going to go non-AK action for that I'd probably just go for the PTR MSG 91 as I already have investment in the roller delayed blowback platform.

 

[gotboostvr]

I had a PSL. Ran pretty well, ergonomics were awful. Accuracy was acceptable. Chin weld if you're lucky. Typical AK controls, creepy, gritty, heavy trigger.

It was neat, and fun to play with. Absolutely not worth the prices they're fetching today.

A 308 Saiga might pique my interests, but not likely at current prices.

Edit: I wanted to add, mine held about 2MOA with the 4x scope and Cold War era ammo. I built up a cheek riser on it to help with the aforementioned chin weld.

The magazines are built STOUT. I've still got one in a parts box somewhere. It'll probably go up for sale whenever it turns up.

The built in recoil absorber in the stock worked surprisingly well. It was a very soft shooter considering its light weight and powerful chambering.

Still won't pay close to what they're going for for another one though.

 

[Tortuga]

Hey guys,

For PSL owners:

1. Are there any modifications or replacement tritium cylinders to be found to fix the scope optics?
2. Again, how's the shooting performance?
3. How good are the magazines? Is it easy to avoid rimlock?
4. Would you recommend them?

You're slowly becoming one of my favorite posters.

But yes, I used to own a PSL. I got it when I was stationed in Fort Bliss in a mechanized infantry unit out west. Their quite expensive but in my experience they are worth it. To answer your questions:

1. I'm sure there is but honestly I bought my POSP scope straight from Russia and it was battery powered. The actual scope optic component that makes it bright in a real LPS-4 scope is radioactive (which is why it glows), and that's why it eventually dies out (radioactive decay). I'd just get a battery operated one because it's cheaper in the long run and honestly will probably work better.

2. These weapons shoot 1 MOA if they have been cared for properly. These are extremely accurate weapons, and people trying to convince you otherwise most likely have not fired them extensively. The biggest reason I sold it was because I couldn't find a range / property I could shoot on that had enough distance to really test how well I could do with it at far distances.

3. The magazines are stellar -- but they are expensive. Last time I checked I think they were about $70 a piece. Now it seems like they're hard to find. I can't speak to rimlock or not.

4. Absolutely. I regret selling mine but I was a starving college graduate in the middle of a recession that couldn't find a job. That's why I sold most of my firearms -- and I generally sold them for much less than they were worth. The PSL is the one weapon I regret selling more than any other rifle I had. The main thing you'll hear people bicker about is whether or not the PSL has shortcomings compared to the SVD -- which you can learn all about from the horse's mouth right here: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/psl-76254r-a-soviet-snipers-view-of-the-famed-romanian-rifle/331799#:~:text=The SVD gas system is,a slotted flash hider/muzzlebrake.

 

[mshootnit]

never had one of those,.but I have had some experience with the other AK based 308 rifles. I had a PSO 8X scope 1000m rangefinder. Never stretched it out that far. Glass was very good. On mine the reticle might be in the lower left corner or elsewhere by the time it was zeroed. That is the technology.
The Vepr is lighter than a FAL and very reliable. A nice rifle for sure. If you like the side mount there is a very good SM13 mount from KVAR. There is another good one, from the US as well.

I had two very good AK 308 rifles. I could get four shot groups at 220 yds which were usually around 1.75 MOA.

 

[M5-Shogun]

I had a PSL. Ran pretty well, ergonomics were awful. Accuracy was acceptable. Chin weld if you're lucky. Typical AK controls, creepy, gritty, heavy trigger.

It was neat, and fun to play with. Absolutely not worth the prices they're fetching today.

A 308 Saiga might pique my interests, but not likely at current prices.

Edit: I wanted to add, mine held about 2MOA with the 4x scope and Cold War era ammo. I built up a cheek riser on it to help with the aforementioned chin weld.

The magazines are built STOUT. I've still got one in a parts box somewhere. It'll probably go up for sale whenever it turns up.

The built in recoil absorber in the stock worked surprisingly well. It was a very soft shooter considering its light weight and powerful chambering.

Still won't pay close to what they're going for for another one though.

I am finding it hard to justify at current prices for sure. Hoping that prices go down, but... well...

You're slowly becoming one of my favorite posters.

But yes, I used to own a PSL. I got it when I was stationed in Fort Bliss in a mechanized infantry unit out west. Their quite expensive but in my experience they are worth it. To answer your questions:

1. I'm sure there is but honestly I bought my POSP scope straight from Russia and it was battery powered. The actual scope optic component that makes it bright in a real LPS-4 scope is radioactive (which is why it glows), and that's why it eventually dies out (radioactive decay). I'd just get a battery operated one because it's cheaper in the long run and honestly will probably work better.

2. These weapons shoot 1 MOA if they have been cared for properly. These are extremely accurate weapons, and people trying to convince you otherwise most likely have not fired them extensively. The biggest reason I sold it was because I couldn't find a range / property I could shoot on that had enough distance to really test how well I could do with it at far distances.

3. The magazines are stellar -- but they are expensive. Last time I checked I think they were about $70 a piece. Now it seems like they're hard to find. I can't speak to rimlock or not.

4. Absolutely. I regret selling mine but I was a starving college graduate in the middle of a recession that couldn't find a job. That's why I sold most of my firearms -- and I generally sold them for much less than they were worth. The PSL is the one weapon I regret selling more than any other rifle I had. The main thing you'll hear people bicker about is whether or not the PSL has shortcomings compared to the SVD -- which you can learn all about from the horse's mouth right here: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/psl-76254r-a-soviet-snipers-view-of-the-famed-romanian-rifle/331799#:~:text=The SVD gas system is,a slotted flash hider/muzzlebrake.

Hey Tortuga, you may wanna fix the rest of your post, looks like you fumbled the quote stuff.

I like to think I ask good questions, and moreover that I am not stupid in what I ask about. For me it's all about learning from people who may know better. Most of my gun experience is bolt action rifles, other than my C308, other people's ARs, a few AKs and SKS in the mix etc since that's what I own (Two pistols, a bunch of WWII era rifles, and a C308).

And yeah, if you had it during the 2008-2011 years by all means I'd kick myself too. Recessions suck, I was in high school during that recession so you have no idea how frustrated I was not being able to find a job that could take a high schooler.

never had one of those,.but I have had some experience with the other AK based 308 rifles. I had a PSO 8X scope 1000m rangefinder. Never stretched it out that far. Glass was very good. On mine the reticle might be in the lower left corner or elsewhere by the time it was zeroed. That is the technology.
The Vepr is lighter than a FAL and very reliable. A nice rifle for sure. If you like the side mount there is a very good SM13 mount from KVAR. There is another good one, from the US as well.

I had two very good AK 308 rifles. I could get four shot groups at 220 yds which were usually around 1.75 MOA.

Gotcha. Veprs seem to be pretty pricy nowadays, but I've had no field time with them. Gritty triggers like most AKs?

 

[Random 8]

I experienced the M76 and M76B from the wrong end in the early 90's. Fortunately they were either not wielded by skilled marksmen or perhaps not fired with full intent. The misses felt deliberate, and we were paying good money to the local insurgency not to be shot. The examples we tested on the range were very impressive to 900m.

I still own a PSL. I have both the 4x original and a late model 8xPosp optic. I've only ever fired mine with the 4x optic. Cheek weld is awful without a field expedient riser. The trigger on mine is not bad. It will do around 2MOA with Czech surplus, somewhat better with Soviet 7N1, and bugholes with the PRVI 150 fmjbt handloaded. Using the Czech Surplus, I was able to range, dope and impact first shot 12x16" silo blocks to 800 yards. The one at 1050 needed an extra shot to find the wind. Magazines and feeding are robust and reliable with proper ammunition. Some makes of ammunition will not reliably eject, it seems they are pressure curve sensitive. A good system for the time it was produced. More modern systems leave it behind. I don't shoot it often anymore for fear of breaking something non replaceable.

 

[entropy]

I fired a friend's PSL with iron sights. Hitting a suspended tennis ball at 100 yds. was easy, a 12"x12" box at 400 yards wasn't hard, a 2'x2' circle spray painted on a hood leaning against a fence (forgot to add the distance yesterday; 964 yards, Laser mearsured), needed a couple to get on it. (I don't do a lot of long range shooting.)

 

[mshootnit]

I am finding it hard to justify at current prices for sure. Hoping that prices go down, but... well...



Hey Tortuga, you may wanna fix the rest of your post, looks like you fumbled the quote stuff.

I like to think I ask good questions, and moreover that I am not stupid in what I ask about. For me it's all about learning from people who may know better. Most of my gun experience is bolt action rifles, other than my C308, other people's ARs, a few AKs and SKS in the mix etc since that's what I own (Two pistols, a bunch of WWII era rifles, and a C308).

And yeah, if you had it during the 2008-2011 years by all means I'd kick myself too. Recessions suck, I was in high school during that recession so you have no idea how frustrated I was not being able to find a job that could take a high schooler.



Gotcha. Veprs seem to be pretty pricy nowadays, but I've had no field time with them. Gritty triggers like most AKs?

Not by the time I put a custom RSA trigger in there.

 

[Bcwitt]

SVD/PSL mags load like 22lr magazines, one rim on top of the previous one. They are very well made, @ least the ones I have seen are. Lee enfeild had the rim over jam problem, but I doubt that would ever happen with these.

 

[Tortuga]

SVD/PSL mags load like 22lr magazines, one rim on top of the previous one. They are very well made, @ least the ones I have seen are. Lee enfeild had the rim over jam problem, but I doubt that would ever happen with these.

Mine never jammed.

 

[fireman 9731]

Add me to the group of folks that had a PSL. I lusted for one for years. Saved up my money one summer in college and bought one. ($569 maybe?) I sold it the next semester when money was tight for a loss. I do miss the cool factor but I don't miss anything else.
The check weld and short stock were miserable. The 4x POSP scope was super cool but I never could get it ranged right because of the bore offset. The worst part was the stinky, acidic, gas-in-the-face every time you pulled the trigger. I love the smell of combloc ammo most of the time, but this was just awful. I could shoot the stuff in my mosins all day long, but one mag through the PSL and I was done.
Its crazy how high the prices are now and I don't have any experience with any other full power semi-auto rifles to compare it to, but I'd rate it a 9 on the cool factor scale and about a 3 on the shootability scale.

 

[Stumper]

1. I have a Vepr in .308. For those not familiar,the Vepr is a sporting semiauto based upon the RPK/an enlarged AK action. The overall ergonomics are not horrible... but it is NOT a sleek featherweight sporter. Mine has been utterly reliable. I have a Redfield Revolution 2-7x mounted on it and sub 2 inch 100 yard groups are routine with every load I have tried. I don't know what it is truly capable of since I am not much of a benchrest shooter-(I tend to flop what ever I'm shooting onto a range bag and sight in on paper then start banging steel at extended ranges). I have shot a couple of deer with the Vepr and 4 feral hogs-blam,blam blam...blam. The trigger is fair. Like all Ak variants the safety is ergonomically horrible.