AL391 problem

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RNB65

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Richmond, VA
I recently bought a new AL391 Sporting Optima (12ga) for sporting clays. So far I've put about 400 rounds of heavy target load through it and I'm getting an occasional failure to feed. Once or twice in every hundred rounds, the edge of the shell will hang on the right edge of the chamber mouth in the area where the extractor slot is cut into the chamber. I'm shooting the Federal target loads from Wally World.

Have anyone experienced anything similar? Is this a break-in issue that will go away in time or do I need to send it to Beretta for repair?

Thanks in advance.

Neal B.
Richmond, VA
 
Try different ammo before sending it back to Accokeek. There's an occasional incompatability between an individual shotgun and a particular brand or lot of ammo.
 
My 391 has functioned nearly flawlessly, but a good friend has sporadic (once or twice every hundred shells or so) FTF issues with his. The problem he's having sounds exactly like what you are experiencing. In his case, the gun has been well broken in (at least a couple thousand shells) and this particular failure has occured with a variety of ammo.

He says he's cleaned it thoroughly, and I explained how to really get at the chamber and how to lube things on a 391, but that doesn't seem to have helped.

If nothing else, it may be worth a call to Beretta and see what they say.
 
Check extractor itself - if can compare with another , akin to extractor inspection /tweaks on a 1911. Focus on angle of cut as to how it addresses a shell case.

Also how fits into extractor notch on barrel , which needs to be kept clean,and dry. IF...any burrs on either extractor, or slot, misaligned, or dirt...replicates problem stated originally.

Applicable to any make or model of shotgun for that matter.
 
Steve - Good points! My buddy is a bit of a "do it yourselfer" and likes to figure things out for himself... so he hasn't let me take a look at his gun. Next time we go shoot together, I think I'll leave my 425 at home and take the 391 and do a little comparison. ;) :) Or at least offer it up for him to look at.
 
My 391 has functioned nearly flawlessly, but a good friend has sporadic (once or twice every hundred shells or so) FTF issues with his. The problem he's having sounds exactly like what you are experiencing. In his case, the gun has been well broken in (at least a couple thousand shells) and this particular failure has occured with a variety of ammo.



Oh, joy. I bought the Beretta because of the 391's great rep as a sporting clays gun. Has he talked to Beretta about his problems?

It's the oddest thing. I shot my first round of clays with it last Sat. Stepped into the box and on my first two birds it failed to load the second shell. Then worked perfectly for the next 98.

Very disappointing so far. Back in the lat 80's I spent about 5 years shooting clays with a Rem 11-87. I can't recall ever having a single jam with it.
 
Check extractor itself - if can compare with another , akin to extractor inspection /tweaks on a 1911. Focus on angle of cut as to how it addresses a shell case.

That certainly sounds like a good possibility. The shell is catching on the extractor side of the chamber mouth, so a defective extractor may well be pulling the shell in that direction. Thanks.
 
RNB65 - Don't despair! The 391 is a great gun for sporting clays. Mine has been nearly perfect (a couple hangups with some crappy ammo), and has really outstanding handling characteristics. If you go to a major tournament around here, if someone is shooting an autoloader, there's probably a 75% chance it's a 391.

That being said, any manufacturer can put out a gun with a problem. Dave's advice is good. Try some different ammo. If it's still an issue, then call Beretta and see what they think.

Like I said in my follow-up post, my friend is a "do it yourselfer" and is trying to figure this out on his own. Frankly, since he's only shooting for fun, one or two FTFs in a session isn't a huge problem for him. It'd drive me nuts, but I'm not him.

Right now, you've only got a few hundred shells through the gun. In the overall scheme of things, that's nothing. Rest assured that you have one of the best guns currently made. It may just take a little bit of tweaking to be perfect.
 
I do recommend one "check and change" at a time. It could be ammo as Dave said, some ammo works better for a particular gun than others. One reason we always suggest one run 200 rds of ammo in THEIR gun to know for sure ammo is reliable. Makes no nevermind what everyone else/ anyone else uses - just a guide to narrow choices for YOUR gun.

Some of this new ammo - I swear! Different lots can mean changes too. Hence the reason we again suggest, once you find ammo that works best in YOUR gun, run, not walk and buy more of that lot #.

Competition, I NEVER used factory ammo , except as mandated. MY loads not only worked in MY guns, MY loads patterned best for MY guns.

Right Trapper, Dave, et al ? :)

Extractor spring areas can get gunked up and impede correct functioning as well.

One at a time troubleshoot and fixes- document so YOU know what has been done, where you area going, and what fixed it.

Ain't shotgunning fun at times? :p
 
Competition, I NEVER used factory ammo , except as mandated. MY loads not only worked in MY guns, MY loads patterned best for MY guns.

Right Trapper, Dave, et al ?

Well, I've got to admit that I've got a certain fondness for a couple of factory loads. Specifically, I use Fiochhi Crushers (1 oz of #8 at 1300 fps) as my "all-around" shells, and Remington Nitro STS (1 oz of #7.5 at 1290 fps) for rabbits and really long shots. So far, I've never had any of those shells fail on me.

The only factory shells (not counting the cheap stuff) I've had problems with were some Winchester AAs (bad primers).

These days, I mostly use reloads for practice and for non-competetive shoots. Then again, if I ever lose money because of some factory shells, I'll probably roll my own for as much as I can.
 
My 391 is stone reliable with every type of ammunition except Federal Top Gun.

If the problem continues with other ammo then service is required but I'd try different ammo brands before anything else.
 
Thank guys. It certainly looks like a little repair work is in order. The Shotgun World thread describes perfectly the problem I'm having.
 
In one of the Shotgun World threads, someone suggested that Beretta should consider installing an AR style forward assist handle on the 391. Apparently this FTF due to a defective carrier problem is rather common.

:)
 
Carrier? Huh.

Anything can and will have flaws. Just the way things are.

Trapper-

Understand back in the day- I was shooting a stone's throw from where Big Green made Shotshells, even shot on their range. I never used Rem ammo.

I grew up with Win ammo for Shotguns. AA COMPRESSION formed hulls were the bees knees. I reloaded using only Win Components, from powder to wad, to even shot.

I liked the AA hull for reloading, stayed with what worked, and had too many pattern sessions for various loads in all 4 gauges.

First time I Had to use a Factory loading, I went with Fiocchi, this surprised some folks, I did not, nor do I tell everything I know. Private Ranges and Fields and such, I had also done Fiocchi load testing, including using Fiocchi reloading components. I had also done so with Federal.

I had not gotten into reloading Feds, with the components I had, and Fed needing spl components, had a couple of guys that did, so we did for each other. We made a deal on what loads worked for each of our guns [did the reloading on site and patterned right there] made notes and trusted each other , I did Fiocchi and AA for them.

Have a plan, a backup plan, if you will.

Mandated new Win had to used, the 20 and .410s were bad. Hot day, and I had 4 in a row of the .410 not fire, IIRC had a total of 12 out of a 100 goof up. I got rattled. I was not the only one that day - that had a bad day.

I used to watch my competition, just show up and watch, not shoot, get used to the range, the traps and targets. I watched Rem Factory loads do this.

I was watching guns too. 1187s were new, and these things were not reliable. My buddy got one, shot it one tourney and went back to his Beretta 303.

I was still shooting a SX1, everyone else had moved to newer guns. I stayed with the Citori, when folks moved on. I stayed with Ammo - my reloads when new stuff came out.

Nothing wrong with new stuff, always been one to let the bugs get worked out, and see how matters play out.

If I had not bought a SX1, I would have gone with the Beretta 303 , I later aquired 303 in 12 and 20. 1100s I bought 'right' these too were proven, just folks had to have the latest greatest and whatever the big boys were shooting.

I do my reloads,or Fiocchi. I have some other druthers on Paper hull loads , or plastic hull loads and such, depends on gun for task and that task. Folks want a "one size fits all" - ain't gonna happen. Got my druthers on guns too.

Folks used to snicker at my reloaded lavender Fiocchi hulls, then the snickering stopped at they were fighting off skeeters , skeeters not really bothering me, I was in a shoot-off, they were were watching - not shooting.

Using them 'old' guns I ought to get rid off, retire and get with on the new.

Can't buy it - gotta earn it. ;)
 
Update!

I sent my 391 to Beretta USA for repair, they returned it 6 days later with a new carrier assembly installed. I put 150 rounds through it this past weekend and it worked perfectly. Never missed a beat.

:) :) :)
 
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I love happy endngs.....

A couple things on autos.....

New autos should be nigh perfect cycling after a few hundred rounds breakin. If not....

Make sure you're using ammo the maker says should work. The Benellis are fine shotguns, but require something like 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz loads up to work the action. If glitching occurs, try different ammo. Occasionally, incompatibilities turn up.

Over lubing is as bad as underlubing. Surplus lube plus powder and plastic residue equals grunge. Grunge causes glitches and also often shorter working life. It's also a stone $%&* to clean out. Some autos are not user friendly when it comes to cleaning.

Recoil operated autos need a shoulder or something to push against. Hip shooting is verboten if you want reliability. When shooting, one should pull the shotgun into the shoulder firmly.

Gas autos are not quite so sensitive, but do have tantrums. Oft the gas port in the barrel is clogged. Pipe cleaners are a great addition to cleaning gear.

And, getting a spare bolt handle and keeping it nearby is a good idea. While these are better than in days of yore, Murphy decrees that if it comes out, it will do so over water, tall vegetation or 30 feet off the deck in a climbing stand.

HTH....
 
FWIW on the AL391. I run mine "wet", at least for the gas cylinder. If run dry, after a few hundred shells it will get so caked with carbon that it's a pain to clean. If I give the gas cylinder a couple healthy shots of FP-10 while reassembling, then the carbon still builds up, but it doesn't cake on and I can simply wipe it off.

Generally, I keep the bolt assembly dry.

Heed what Dave says about the bolt handle. An extra is cheap insurance... and I have had the bolt handle of my 391 come out a time or two.
 
"I sent my 391 to Beretta USA for repair, they returned it 6 days later with a new carrier assembly installed. I put 150 rounds through it this past weekend and it worked perfectly. Never missed a beat."

Does it look the same as the old one?

Joe Mamma
 
i have had my 391 for about 1.5 yrs and NEVER a single glitch. I am cleaning the gun after every time I shoot it. Wether it be 50 rds or 250 rds, it gets cleaned after every shooting. Then again, thats how I am with all my guns.
I do the opposite of trapper ready. My bolt is wet and the piston is dry. I soak the gas parts in SLP 2000 and use regular hoppes solvent for the bolt assembly.
I'm sorry to hear about your faulty Beretta, they have an awesome rep for reliability.

To help with cleaning, I got this kit. It gets into all the places a standard brush will not reach.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/st...x?p=1670&title=BERETTA+391+POWER+CLEANING+KIT
 
Does it look the same as the old one?

Does what look the same? It's the same gun and one stainless carrier looks like another stainless carrier. All I know is it works like a charm now.
 
Does what look the same?

I think the idea was "Does the new carrier look different from the old one?". If it did, then perhaps people could determine if they've got a bad carrier simply from visual inspection. Although, based on your reply, it sounds like that's not the case.

BTW, my buddy with the faulty 391 is sending his back within the next couple of days.
 
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