Alternatives to carrying a concealed firearm?

[cnorman18]

walking sticks

I see that someone else mentioned walking sticks; I'm amazed that I forgot to. I carry one often. They're a good alternative, but take the trouble to pick up a video on how to use one--it's not what you'd expect (for example, you NEVER use it as a club). Very effective, even against multiple attackers.

Another note; I wonl@ apologize for the other posters here who have been--well, let's say "unhelpful". If they've got the smarts to realize they were wrong--and the stones to own up to it--they can apologize for themselves.

 

[eliphalet]

It's not that I "don't know enough;" it's that I've done the research into the topic, and wasn't sure if it was the right decision for me.

I was thinking more along the back ground check idea but no matter what is most important is you are asking questions, learning and therefore becoming more and more informed as time passes. Hopefully you will soon become a member of the firearm community as a gun owner.
Good luck,
Eph.

 

[The Unknown User]

Thank you, eliphalet.

About the background check issue: I don't know every detail about them, but I can still have an opinion on them. But that's another topic.

 

[Mannix]

I used to think the same way, but it turned out I was just brainwashed into the whole "you'll abuse any power you have, so cede it to us" mentality propagated by the public school system(Fighting back is just as bad, all weapons are evil, etc.). So as I got into paintball, airsoft, airguns, and then got into real guns, I was relieved to find out that they did not, in fact, turn me into a hyper-violent puppy killer. Prior to getting an airgun I kept thinking how I could potentially misuse it, but as it turned out I was just being stupid.

If you feel that you are not up to the task of responsibly owning or carrying a firearm, I respect that, but I would strongly suggest you look at the reasoning behind your distrust of yourself(or perhaps you are just at a point in your life where gun ownership would be problematic). This is not to say that there are not those out there who should not own a gun because they are not responsible enough, but most of them also won't acknowledge that they are. Of course, I could be WAY off base, so I apologize if I am.



My problem is now that my state government doesn't trust me :banghead:. Though I'm not sure I would carry if I could, anyway.

So I carry Fox OC, an old pocket knife, and an aluminum LED flashlight on a nylon string. Actually, the flash light on a string works better than the pocket knife(at illuminating things, that is ).

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Apparently some people didn't think I was serious about the pepper spray suggestion or the fact the original poster may be adverse to carrying it.

As the original poster did not specify any of his reasons for not wanted to go through the trouble of owning a gun, we have no idea of his motivations. However, one of them could be the annoying process and high costs of obtaining an FID in his home state. What many people are not aware if is that purchasing pepper spray requires being licensed in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. If the cost and paperwork/papertrail of licensing is one of the concerns, then the original poster could certainly be adverse to the hassle that comes with owning pepper spray.

Likewise, if the OP's concern is not being able to inflict pain or injury on another person for moral or other reasons, he may not be willing to shoot them with a gun or hit them with pepper spray.

Finally, if he is concerned about the gun going off in public or someone else messing with it when it isn't under his control, these same concerns apply to pepper spray. There have been a number of times where some dingbat has discharged their pepper spray when they shouldn't have. Similarly, if the OP commonly has children around his stuff, he may not want to risk them getting into it. Granted, the magnitude of a OC AD is substantially less than an AD with a gun, but an AD with a flashlight is even less annoying.

While pepper spray is not 100% effective against everyone and does require some care in use, it's more effective than blinding by flashlight most of the time. For many of us here, OC would be a logical choice in lieu of a firearm. The fact the OP mentioned "The only thing I can think would fit the bill would be a good flashlight" leads me to believe that for some reason OC is not an acceptable option for him.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I lived in Mass for several years. I carried pepper spray and I did not get an FID card. I think it would have cost me $100 just to get that card to carry pepper spray!!! It's a good thing that central and eastern Massachusetts are such safe places

Rob87, even though I now carry a gun, I always have pepper spray and a knife with me. I have had some martial arts training, but that is something that really needs to be practiced regularly. It is very tough to defend against someone who (a) surprises you, (b) is used to fighting really dirty, and/or (c) has very little to lose. That element of surprise is huge, so situational awareness is equally huge for defense. If you are considering martial arts as a defensive option, I recommend Aikido. It is defense-oriented, and even some basic knowledge can teach you how to escape someone's grasp and use pressure points.

BTW, I did not consider those pictures posted by the other members to be directed as an insult to you. I thought it was in answer to your original question "Alternatives to carrying a concealed firearm?". IMO, they were saying that those were the alternatives, WHICH MEANS there is nothing that can come close to the firearm for defensive purposes.

 

[HOLYROLLER]

Sprints maybe? Train hard and become an amazingly fast runner. Seriously, look into the varied products by Cold Steel. Knives, clubs, stabbing instruments, canes, etc. Godspeed, HR.

 

[fletcher]

For flashlights, I love my 1W and 3W Dorcy LED lights. They're cheap ($20-30), work well, and are still reliable after many drops. I put rechargeable energizer batteries in them, and YMMV with different brands of batteries.

For alternatives to carrying a handgun, I recommend a knife and/or some sort of OC spray. Fox labs tends to be the most popular for spray, and there are a million different opinions for knives. I carry a hideaway knife at all times.

Travel with a wife or child, then you only have to run faster than them.

 

[strat81]

Some basic High Road lessons:
Guns are one of many tools you can use.
Guns are not for everyone.
Handguns are not for everyone.
Carrying a concealed weapon is not for everyone.

There are some real non-THR comments in this thread. Some of you, especially the veteran members who made such comments, should be ashamed of yourselves.

To the original poster: a flashlight, kubaton, folding knife, and OC/pepper spray are good alternatives. Try to get training with whatever you decide on. Inova, Streamlight, and Surefire are good places to start looking for flashlights.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

what Strat81 said.

I'll just add: Beware pulling a knife on an aggressor if you haven't had sufficient training in weapon retention and use.

 

[hso]

Glad to see that it's back on The High Road after a disappointing start. I'm going to move this to S&T and hope the folks there can be helpful.

A gun is just a tool. Like all tools it requires the skill and will to use it properly. All other defensive options require the same. Chemical sprays, tasers, sticks/canes, knives and martial arts all require training and will to use (in various degrees).

All self defense starts with avoidance, awareness, self control and will to fight.

 

[The Unknown User]

I have some more questions about lights.

The obvious goal of a flashlight is for nighttime defense, with the intent of over-saturating an aggressor's nighttime-adapted eyesight. So what is bright enough? What is too bright? I would assume that monster 2300 lumen Surefire light might be overkill. (I'm kidding--really. ) I've been looking at models like ther G2, 6P, and the LED versions of both. The LED versions are 80 lumens, and the incandescent versions are 65, or 120 with an upgraded bulb.

I'm leaning towards the LED versions, as I'm told the light output is closer to sunlight, whereas incandescent light is more searing white hot light. I'm also told that LED's are better on batteries, and don't break so easily.

So I'm curious what you guys think about various models, or types of flashlights.

 

[Green Lantern]

Rob - I don't know a whole lot about flashlights. There's a website out there, 'flashlightreviews.com' or something like that with a lot of info. They've quit updating, but still have lots of stuff on there.

A great bargain "tactical" light is a Brinkmann Maxfire LX, from Target or Wal-Mart for 17-20 bucks. Incandescent, VERY bright.

Sportsman's Guide also has a 2-pack of Surefire Executive Defender LED "clones" for about 30 bucks. Not as bright, but still nothing to scoff at. BTW, NEVER pay retail for the batteries for these and many other tac lights. They can be had online for about a buck each vs. up to 10 times that in stores!

I think what really helped to drive the "guns for SD aren't for EVERYONE" point home for me was, morbid as it is, working on my will. No, no 'occasion,' other than that I work in a drugstore, I like fast cars, and my main reason is to make sure my alcoholic dad is NOT put in position as Executor of my estate. I've already seen how fast he can drink away and lose ONE estate, I don't want it to happen again!

Anyhow, I'm having a devil of a time deciding who gets what, except that I'm leaving my Glock 19 to a female cousin. She really, REALLY does not like to talk about self-defense or even think about emergencies/etc. It's a slow process, one I may well not get done even if I make it to 100! So in the meantime, just in case, I left her a note about the gun, and how I want her to use it to protect herself.

THEN I got to thinking...what if she doesn't have what it takes to kill in self-defense. She SAYS she does, but I don't think she's really thought a whole lot about it.

So, in the note I also included a section about how guns are "all-or-nothing" choices for defense. And if she decides she does not want to use one, I would NOT be hurt at her in the least.

 

[RyanM]

Alternatives to carrying a concealed firearm?

Open carry.

Seriously, though, if I would not or could not carry a firearm, I would probably look into getting a tazer. And, if legal in my jurisdiction, I'd use a blackjack or "slapper" for backup.

 

[Pat McCoy]

When I can't carry, and feel the need for some kind of protection, I use a 36" blackthorn walking stick.

There are various forms of use, but the best of which (IMO) is based on Phillipine Escrima techniques.

The use of a "close-up" defensive system increases your need for situatuional awareness, and the size of the area you are constantly scanning.

Nice thing about the walking stick is there are no problems with TSA, and even extra help on most occasions.

 

[Justin]

Did your post disappear?

Then you might want to think back and ask yourself if the content of your post was constructive in any way, shape or form.

Ya know, just a suggestion.

 

[Charles S]

On the whole I am very disappointed with this High Road thread.

I am not going to introduce any new ideas, but I will reiterate them.

Apparently a lot of posters believe that a firearm is the be all end and all tool of self defense, it is not, but then again I am amazed at the number of gun owners who believe that owning a gun makes them an automatic expert on self defense.

You have decided that your are responsible for your self defense. I applaud you for that. Next educate yourself on the topic. The single most important self defense tool you posses is your mind!

For starters read the IMHO seminal work on the self defense mindset Principals of Personal Defense by Jeff Cooper. This book is not about firearms it is about self defense.

Another excellent starter book is Mr. Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme. This book has more of a firearms focus.

Advice.

Situational awareness is essential.

Minimize your exposure to high risk and high crime areas when possible.

Pepper spray is one of the best non-lethal tools available.

I recommend a flashlight for its utility purposes, but I would not trust one as a primary self defense tool. However if you must take a look at Black Bear's products.

http://www.blackbearflashlights.com/

I do not recommend a knife for self defense unless you are willing to commit yourself to years of hard training, and even then accept the fact that there is a very high probability that you will get cut during a self defense situation.

If your circumstances allow an impact tool (with the appropriate training) is an excellent choice. A walking stick is great, an ASP is even better (but not always legal). Keep in mind in many jurisdictions strikes to the head and neck are considered lethal force. I do not feel that Kubotan techniques are ideal for self demesne because it requires closure with your opponent, less than ideal for self defense.

Most importantly again educate yourself. Mr. Ayoob offers excellent classes on self defense and there are a number of great books available. Another fact to keep in mind: you cannot learn from a book what you can in a class. I highly recommend a hands on self defense class.

There is no single tool that is equal to a firearm for self defense, however a firearm is much more dangerous to the user if the user is unwilling to use it (lacks the commitment to use it). There are available alternative, but all self defense tools require a commitment on the users part and some degree of training.

Good luck.

 

[brownie0486]

Alternatives to carrying a concealed firearm?

I can't think of anything thats as effective as a firearm as an alternative. Anything like a knife is a contact weapon and you'd have to make physical contact. Anything like light, pepper spray is non lethal.

The are no alternatives that can replace what the firearm is capable of which is lethal force from beyond contact distance/ranges. A slingshot "might" work in the same capacity if you could conceal it and access it quickly enough with practice.

If you have the means [ money ], are capable of obtaining one [ not restricted for some reason ], you'll have to decide if you are willing to be able to control your environment with lethal force if necessary or not.

It's an either or, there aren't really "alternatives" that give you the same SD abilities/capabilities as the firearm/handgun IMO. You either take your SD seriously or you don't. The idea that some have about not wanting to use lethal force when necessary to protect themselves [ when they are capable of obtaining said means of defense has always been a mistery to me.

Brownie

 

[esol]

as others have already said there really aren't any real alternatives to a firearm

heres my $.02

knives, as many have said shouldn't really be considered unless you have extensive experience and training with them. pulling the knife might have a deterrent effect, or it could very quickly escalate the situation putting you at much greater risk of injury seeing that you need to be within contact range to effectively use it (throwing knives are great for arming your assailant, and thats about it)

the flashlight while not super effective in actually stopping anyone, might be effective for disorienting them or making them pause for a moment giving you time to use another option (ie: blind them with the light AND pepper spray them) and some models could be used as a kubaton if you know what you're doing, this of course puts you within contact distance of the BG and at greater risk of injury

if you do decide to carry some type of spray, i would recommend a high quality combo spray if you can find one, something with pepper and teargas (the highest concentrations of each that you can find) the ones that fire out a sticky foam gunk are pretty cool, they can physically cover the BG's eyes and face adding to the effect... of all the "alternatives" sprays are good because they allow you to maintain some distance from the BG and can be used on more than one attacker

i can say from experience that you can indeed make yourself less effected by things like pepper spray or tear gas (some people are naturally less effected by it) back in jr high school a friend of mine and I had bought some pepper spray, later on that day while sitting around wondering if it actually did anything we decided to spray each other with it (not the smartest thing i know, but we were young). it definitely hurt like hell... fast forward 30 minutes or so and we are now playing tag with pepper spray. by the end of the week and 3 bottles later it barely made our eyes water any more. same thing goes with tear gas, only this time it was the military hitting me with it on an almost daily basis in basic training, at first i could barely function without my pro-mask on, by the end of the 8 weeks it would make my nose run a little, didn't need the mask at all (this was 17 and 12 years ago respectively so I'm sure my tolerance is gone)... now this doesn't mean that your average bad guy is taking the time or effort to prepare themselves by building up a tolerance to pepper spray and teargas. I'm just saying it can be done.

tazers while effective tend to be very expensive and bulky (hard to hide), many states require permits to carry them. they also are only good for a single attacker, and you had better hit your target first shot or you are SOL (most are able to be used as a stun gun after the probes have been fired, but are just about worthless in this respect. i will touch on this next)

stun guns are not really good for much more than intimidation (the loud crackling blue arc is scary), i use to own a 250,000volt stun gun, and i will admit it does hurt getting zapped by it, but it is very unlikely to incapacitate anyone for much time if at all, the movies make it out to seem that as soon as you touch someone with a stun gun they are down for the count, this couldn't be further from the truth, you need to zap them in specific areas for best effect and it really does make a big difference, kidney area, arm pit, neck, anywhere else is just going to make them really angry, and you need to hold the stun gun on them for 5 or more seconds, the longer the better (hope your grappling skills are up to the task)...
as far as the voltage goes, this really only effects how many layers of clothing it will go through, most tazers are 50,000v, this is fine for the tazer because the electrodes are actually sticking into the BG's skin, but if you are using 50,000v as a stun gun it will have trouble getting through a thick sweatshirt over a t-shirt, I've seen stun guns as high as 950,000v... the worst part about stun guns is the fact that you have to be in contact with the BG for them to work, this greatly increases the chances of you being harmed

of course any of the "alternatives" can be addressed easiest with the old saying "never bring a * to a gun fight"

 

[6_gunner]

If firearms were not an option, the next best things in my opinion would be a big, sharp knife (I'm thinking Bowie or kukri) or a stout club. Of course these would not be practical for carrying around and the knives would probably be subject to the same idiotic laws as the guns. However, these could be viable home defense options if guns aren't available.

 

[Rush]

The good news is the OP is beginning to think in terms of self defense... beginning to awaken to the fact that at any time, in any place, he could be attacked. This corrects the most fundamental and most dangerous false idea we grow up with today in America.... the illusion that we are always safe.

That mindset change is the first step to becoming a carrier of a firearm. There are several other steps along the way, and we all do it at our own pace and in our own time. OP is doing a GOOD job researching and thinking about the matter very extensively before he makes the decision to do so. If and when he ever carries a gun, he is likely to be well trained, and is likely to have developed the right warrior-attitude to use it.

Don't carry a gun if you think you are going to hesitate to blow someone's face off with it. Re-read that statement and think about it.

Don't carry a gun if you aren't willing to get training in its safe use. Don't carry a gun if you can't get through 24 hours without drinking a six pack. Don't carry a gun if you can't keep it out of the hands of toddlers, suicidal friends, and garden-variety ignoramuses.

The OP seems to instinctively understand these things, and is examining himself to see if he measures up. He can, when and if he decides to.

In the meantime, Hazel is correct, there IS NO substitute for a gun. Until you carry a gun, accept that the playing field is not level for you. You will be subjugated to any criminal who does have one, period, end of story. You would need godly powers of knife and martial arts training to overcome any fat slob with a gun and then only if you can close the distance before he gets off a shot.

But do take your time in arriving at this most serious decision. The last thing we need are more untrained noobs out there like the 16 year old girl on the ER reality show who blew off her own hand trying to put a .357 Magnum into her glove compartment.

Kudos to OP for being thoughtful and careful. He'll come round and when he does he'll be one of the better gun owners.

 

[Eyesac]

OC and a good folder

 

[Mannix]

Him being in MA is a problem, considering you NEED to have your FID to buy a gun or OC. So carrying either is going to take some hoop jumping and is going to be a general PITA.

So my suggestion is a good bright compact metal LED flashlight with an attached lanyard of some sort for swinging so it can work double duty as an improvised sap and for blinding. When practicing swinging the flashlight, be careful not to hit yourself with much force, those suckers can do some serious damage.

Also, the attached lanyard is a longer than normal "retention strap" NOT for swinging, if you ever get asked. Now, this isn't a lie, it comes in handy for that as well, it just happens to also be able to be used as an improvised weapon, should you ever need one.

 

[Sharps-shooter]

Software, not hardware

Y'all know I love guns. But most of the time I don't carry one around with me, and when I was in my world traveler phase, I seldom if ever had one handy, and didn't even own one. I went to a lot of places, including some that were war zones, some that were bad neighborhoods, and some that were just wilderness. For all sorts of reasons not relevant to this discussion (and none involving dislike of guns), I did this without a firearm. Sometimes I had a big stick. Normally i had a good pocket knife. At all times, I was a big ugly man. But I was basically unarmed.

These are my suggestions for staying safe while unarmed:

1. Pay attention to the things around you. Use all of your senses-- see who and what is in your presence, listen to the tones and moods of conversations around you, be alert to the smell of alcohol and drugs on/in someone, etc. Evaluate a situation before you walk into it.

2. Learn to de-escalate confrontations. This is a skill, like gourmet cooking or karate or auto mechanics. You may or may not have a talent for it, but it is a learned skill set and can be learned by just about anyone.

3. Be unimposing. The best thing is if people don't notice you so much. If you're walking around in a bad neighborhood wearing expensive clothes with a big gold watch, you might get picked out as a target. I'm all for being yourself, but in many situations it's best to be yourself as unassumingly as possible.

4. Project an air of confidence and calm. Without being a big jerk.

5. Improvise if necessary. A chair or a bottle can make a ddecent weapon in a pinch. see #1.

 

[LightningJoe]

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