Carried equipment, and placement

[The Unknown User]

I hope this is the right forum.

Anyways, I have some questions. It mostly has to do with what you carry, where on your body you carry it, and how you carry it.

We've all seen the pictures of someone's gear layed out on their bed or something. It usually has their CCW, holster, spare mags, a folding knife, maybe a flashlight, and other odds and ends.

So how does one fit all of that on their body without it being noticeable? (I do not carry yet, but do intend to in the future.) I guess not carrying makes it harder for me to understand how one can have pounds on gear on their hips and in their pocket and not have it be noticeable.

One other thing I wanted to ask: I'm looking into getting a good flashlight. I was looking at SureFire's, and was wondering which models are the popular ones, or which ones would you guys recommend? I've seen the Z2 and E2D the most. Does the light being incandescent or LED make any difference? And does the beam have consistent lighting at opposed to the odd shapes the crappy bulbs in a MagLite would make? Frankly, those annoy me.

Thanks if anyone can help.

 

[roo_ster]

Given:
Right-handed

Placement
Belt (1.5" wide) goes in belt-loops
IWB FBI cant holster & 1911 go at 3:30 (straight ahead is 12:00)
Mag carrier & mag go at 8:30
Wallet in rear left pocket
Hankie or knife in rear right pocket
Keys (on carabiner) at 9:30-ish belt loop or in front left pocket.
Cell phone in front left pocket...maybe joined by knife
Snubby & pocket holster in front right pocket
If I carry a light, it is usually in front left pocket & the hankie or knife has to stay behind.

The above is fine with pleated, loose fitting khakis or loose-fitting jeans. Skin-tight jeans are a no-go. Cargo shorts are even easier, giving more options:
Cell & hankie go into left cargo
Bianchi speed strip for snubby goes in right cargo
Light, if present, goes into left cargo

A cover garment can be anything from an untucked tee or polo, to a camp/Hawaiian shirt, vest, jacket, whatever.


Lights
LEDs have come a long way. That said, I still rely on my old Surefire 6P incandescent for carry.

If LEDs get much better, I will get one for carry. As it is, I want more performance than a similarly-sized LED can dish out.

At home, I could use my 6P, but mostly use a Maglight 3-D with the factory Maglight LED retrofit. It is brighter than the stock krypton bulb and gives me a bludgeoning option to accompany my 1911 when checking out something at 0'dark:30. When I roll outta bed, I don't take a reload & my Maglight is it after the 8+1 in my 1911.

 

[RyanM]

Primary gun behind right hip. Primary mags behind left hip. Backup, if carried, left-hand appendix. Backup mags, if backup is carried, right appendix. Wallet, left front pocket. Keys, right front pocket. Photon micro light on keychain. Phone, left back pocket.

 

[Rumble]

Gun on the right hip (on or just behind, that is); mag on left side. Wallet, left front, keys and knife, right front. Inhaler, breast pocket. Flashlight either on belt or left front tucked against wallet.

Nothing goes in my back pockets.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I try to minimize the amount of stuff I carry on my person.

Either my Taurus Mil Pro in an IWB or my Walther P99 in an OWB at 3:30
Gerber multitool on belt around 5 oclock
cell phone and maybe ipod in front right pocket
keys in left front pocket
wallet in back right pocket
And on my keychain I have an Asp Plam Defender(OC sprayer)

I don't carry a flashlight, reloads, extra knife or BUG on me. But I do have them in my messenger bag that I almost always have with me. In that I keep a Surefire E2D, a Smith&Wesson folder, extra OC insert for the Defender, 2 more mags for either the MilPro or P99, and sometimes if I have the P99 on me, I'll put the MilPro in the bag.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I prefer to pocket carry and it's usually a S&W 642 (+P rated) with CTC grips in a DeSantis pocket holster in the right hip pocket. If pants or shorts don't have generous hip pockets, I just don't buy 'em. I usually wear a one size larger tee shirt, untucked, for cover.

There's usually a Safariland speedloader in the right front pocket (5 more Speer 135 gr. Gold Dots) along with a SpeedStrip in the watch pocket (5 158 gr. NyClads and 1 Speer shot cartridge). There's a Benchmade Mini-AFCK clipped in the right front pocket and my keys (attached to an ASP Key Defender tucked behind my belt) go into that pocket to keep them under control.

Left front pocket has small change, fingernail clippers, ChapStick and a Spyderco Native with the pocket clip removed. Clipped in that pocket are a Lumapower M1 Hunter LED flashlight ( http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/lumapower_m1.htm ) and my cell phone.

Left rear pocket holds wallet and pocket comb. A floppy tee shirt covers it all up. Lots of people get 'made' as potential packers by a visible knife clip showing, I'd as soon have everything covered up by a shirt tail.

Pounds of gear? No thanks...

lpl/nc

 

[The Unknown User]

Wow, thanks guys.

Lee, do you have any thoughts on how to hide that you're carrying a knife? I actually stopped carrying mine, as it was most comfortable to carry it clipped to my right front pocket, but that's quite noticeable.

I've made plenty of people wearing a knife. Whether they had anything else or not, I'm not sure. I'd hate to make myself a target by having a knife (or part of one, rather) visible, but I'm not sure what else to do.

Any other thoughts on lights? From what I've read, the E2D is quite popular for self-defense purposes, as those bevels seem to provide a handy striking surface since the force of the impact would be divided across those points (ouch). The Z2 seems popular for on-duty personnel, but I'm not on-duty. I like the P6 and P9, too, so I don't know.

 

[The Unknown User]

Bump.

I've narrowed down my choices to the 6P, the 6P LED, and the 9P. Anyone have any thoughts on these? Anyone own or have used one? Are there any other flashlights I should consider?

 

[glockman19]

I prefer to pocket carry and it's usually a S&W 642 (+P rated) with CTC grips in a DeSantis pocket holster in the right hip pocket.

Also my prefered gun and place to carry.

My other carry gun is a Glock 26 normally in a jacket pocket or IWB @ 2:00.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Rob,

In my case the untucked tee shirt covers the Benchmade's pocket clip, which would otherwise be visible (nice not to have to dress for business any more). My wife prefers to carry her knives one on each side (a Spyderco Native for serious and a Kabar Dozier KA-4065 as a 'beater') in her waistband behind her belt, where the belt helps cover up the clips. I should mention that carry for knives is pretty limited to smaller folders in NC, as the legal status of fixed blades or anything other than "a small knife" is so iffy.

There are other options as well- neck carry, pouches or kydex belt holders etc. Or pocket carry without a clip for that matter. But legal considerations for your jurisdiction come into play as to what you can carry and how, and you have to consider that first.

As to lights, I keep several handy. I mostly carry the Hunter mentioned above, but I like Brinkmann's Maxfire for an incandescent (xenon bulb, comes with 2XCR123A batteries, $20 at wallyworld) though it doesn't come with a clip or holster. I like the 3-watt Nuwai TM-301X (2XCR123A batteries) for a small LED light ( http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=816 , review at http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/nuwai_tm301x3.htm ) but it pales in comparison to the CREE LED in the Hunter. Of course the Hunter costs twice what the 'big Q3' Nuwai costs, but it's a lot of photons for the buck.

I haven't bought a Surefire for a while now, last one I bought was a G2 when they first came out. Frankly I like the Brinkmann better (http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/brinkmann_maxfirelx.htm ). Heresy, I know...

lpl/nc

 

[shadowalker]

If I'm not open carrying I conceal everything I carry with an untucked polo or tee shirt. I use a Hodgdon Handgun Leather OWB holster which puts the Sig very close to the body.

Sig P229 (just behind the left hip)
Two spare magazines (just behind the right hip)
SureFire E2D (clipped to rear sash pocket)
OC (FoxLabs 2 OZ, right leg pocket)
Wallet (left leg pocket)
Cell phone (magazine pocket)
Keys (right top leg pocket)

I usually wear 5.11 tactical pants because the belt loops are good sized and good placement, the number of pockets, and because they are re-inforced in seat and knees, I blow through pants VERY fast and the 5.11s have done a great job of standing up.

 

[The Unknown User]

Thanks, Lee.

And I'm noticing that the E2D is really popular. Is this primarily because it was designed as a self-defense item? The main reason I personally don't want one is because of the fact that it's designed as a weapon, and thus it could be questionable carrying one. What if I wanted to bring it with me on a plane? Or what if a police officer sees it? If I just have a "normal" looking flashlight, they can't really do anything about it. Or am I wrong?

 

[shadowalker]

It does have the strike plate on the front and back, which I consider to be more of a visual addition, it could be a benefit if I had to strike someone but I don't think it looks particularly threatening. It has helped to keep wear off the front of my light (I'm hard on tools too). Using it as a weapon I'd rather hit someone in the face with pulses of bright light than have to be close enough to touch them.

My light is in plain view and haven't ever had anyone question me about it, in fact I had to point out the purpose of the strike area to most people I showed it to.

If you don't feel comfortable with it though just get the normal light and save some money, if push comes to shove you can still use it to strike something with.

 

[The Unknown User]

That's true. I'm considering both the 6P and the G2 now. Both are fairly small, at just barely over 5", and if I'm correct, that'd be just bigger than my fist. My Benchmade 551 is a 3" folder, and that's the size of my first, so I figure the bulb area will extend past that.

So I'm just stuck between the two. I really wish they had pocket clips, though. :/

 

[PPGMD]

If LEDs get much better, I will get one for carry. As it is, I want more performance than a similarly-sized LED can dish out.

You haven't seen the newer model Surefires then. 60 lumens for 1.5 hours from a single battery LED light (L1), or 30 lumens for 10 hours from a single battery (E1L), finally you have 80 lumens for 11 hours (6PL), and 100 lumens for 3 hours (L5).

And if none of those work for you, you can order a Gene Malkoff bulb and get 100+ lumens for 3 hours in a Z2, or a G2Z.

LEDs have long surpassed incandescents in the one and two battery format. The only areas that incandescents have an advantage are the 3+ battery models that produce 150+ lumens, but even that is a matter of time.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

I know some will disagree with me, but I don't understand the "made carrying a knife thing." Maybe it's because I live out here on the frontier, but a guy carrying a knife is no big deal. Seeing a guy with a knife clipped to his pocket or on a sheath on his belt is rather common place here. I've not heard of anyone around here being targeted for carrying a knife.

 

[Erik]

Mostly a Sig 229 around 4 o'clock in a pancake with a thumb strap, a cuff case around 8 o'clock, one or two mag carriers around 9 o'clock, and a push dagger left of center line around 10-11 o'clock. A Spyderco P'Kal rides in my strong side hip pocket towward the top. A Surefire E2E rides in the other one.

Sometimes I go IWB or A-IWB. Sometimes another gun somewhere. It depends on my mood or mission - groceries or badguys?

 

[oregonshooter]

I'm right handed, current EDC:

Right front jeans pocket:
1. Benchmade Ritter Griptilian folder
2. Keys
3. Gerber util knife money clip with non-identifying cards (bi-mart, etc) and less than $20.00 for a throw down.

Left Front pocket:
1. Treo 680 phone PDA in softcase with ID and bank cards

Left rear pocket:
1. Surefire Aviator A2

ON BELT:
@ 3:00, 1911 GM in VM-II IWB holster
@ 9:00, Uncle Mike's kydex single mag pouch with spare mag (Wilson 47D)
@ 11:30, small pikal fixed blade (7" OAL) horizontal kydex sheath


I prefer INC over LED for two reasons...
1. Penetrates into the dark better, especially in fog
2. Color rendition is truer and makes IDing easier for me outside.

I would recommend the dual purpose A2 to anyone, but the cost is a turn off to most. The E2E (the d sucks in the real world, IMO) is my second, and the good ole G2 is the cheap light I recommend.

For a utility light, Fenix Cree lights are great, but not for a shooting light. Makes a good backup for the G2/E2E though.

 

[PPGMD]

My G2Z modded with a Cree LED penetrates as far as my A2 did. Color rendition, LEDs are closer to daylight color balance then incandescents are.

 

[Mtnvalley]

My light is in plain view and haven't ever had anyone question me about it, in fact I had to point out the purpose of the strike area to most people I showed it to.

And in case you are questioned about it...the scallops are there to show whether the light was left on when setting it down on a flat surface. One wouldn't want to melt the lens or run down the batts...

In response to the OP: my daily carry gear depends on season, as is common I'd suppose. In hot weather, my primary gun (XD40) is carried off-body in a Maxpedition Jumbo S-type (hence, a crossdraw from the pack since I'm a righty), with a Kel-Tec P3AT pocket-carried in RF jeans pocket.

In more temperate weather with wider clothing options, I carry the XD at 3:30 in a Comp-tac CTAC (IWB), and often skip carrying the BUG but add a spare mag at 9:30. The pack may or may not be carried during these times.

Amongst all the other stuff in the Fatboy is a Surefire 9P, with a GG&G TID on the head. I do carry an E2D on-body (position varies with attire, which is less than ideal). Clipped to LF pocket is a Spyderco Delica Wave.

Keys, Leatherman Micra, and a knockoff Photon light are on keyring, which is attached to ASP Street Defender (combo OC/kubotan) and carried with ASP tucked into waistband parallel to groin line and keys hanging out about 1-1:30.

And, upon seeing all the above in print, I feel compelled to say that I do not work for an elite security team at one of the nation's largest shopping malls, nor have I ever felt the need to duct-tape SAPI plates to my back. I just like options (particularly when going someplace where firearms are verboten and other dual-use defensive choices are solidly debatable), and I like redundancies when feasible (or in the case of off-body carry, necessary IMHO).

 

[The Unknown User]

Man, Surefire has a lot of choices. How do I decide?!

Just for comparison, how many lumens does a MagLite AA have?

I was hoping to get a good, basic, bright flashlight to carry, as well, they seem like a great defensive tool at night (to blind an aggressor and run for it), and I hate how weak your usual flashlight is.

I like the 6P and 6P LED, but don't really understand the difference between the two, especially as I have no idea how bright 1 lumen is. :/

I was hoping for a model with a pocket clip, but none of the clip models I like, so I guess I'm stuck.

Do you get a good, consistent beam with either an LED or an incandescent bulb? Or do you get those ugly splotches and rings still?

So should I just get the 6P or the LED version or?

 

[JamisJockey]

I'm a righty.
Weapon IWB at 3:30 (just behind the hip).
Two spare mags in a pocket holster, left pocket.
Wallet on the left side, so that I can retrieve my wallet without showing my gun to the world.
If I'm carrying a light its on the belt, left side.
Folder goes in the right pocket.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

The Mini Mag has 5.3 lumens, from what I have read searching Google.

 

[Pax Jordana]

Rob:

I pack a surefire executive (e2d?) for my edc. If I'm wearing cargo pants my P11 or J-frame go in my right cargo pocket, wallet in the left. Keys knife and any change in the right front, surefire and chapstick in the left.

A good belt will help distribute the weight so long as it's even-ish from one side to the other.

As far as not being noticeable, fill your pockets with pennies one day. Note how many people go, "hey guy, what's with the pennies?" Unless a bunch fall out, nobody's gonna care.

OK, assuming you're NOT a sucker, ask a trusted friend if they can tell if you're packing and where. You'd be surprised at what people who are asked to pay attention won't notice, let alone your average joe starbucks.

I used to be afraid I'd get noticed until my primary carry gun's ejector broke - and the only other option was a full sized 1911 in a paddle holster. To me it stuck out like a sore thumb, but nobody said a word. Strange lumps under your shirt don't mean much to people, it seems. And if all else fails, tell 'em you're diabetic and it's an insulin pump

 

[PPGMD]

Do you get a good, consistent beam with either an LED or an incandescent bulb? Or do you get those ugly splotches and rings still?

So should I just get the 6P or the LED version or?

With both you get a consistent beam, I prefer LED, closer to daylight color balance, and they have better battery life. Also LED very very rarely need replacing, unlike bulb which need to be replaced.

The best lumens comparison are between the flashlights themselves, also add about 10-20 lumens to the Surefire numbers when comparing them to other companies lumen numbers. Surefire measures the actual lumens a flashlight will create vs many companies using what the bulb will do with a given voltage, not accounting for the design of the flashlight and reflector.

Now to compare a 2-3D Maglite will put out just under 50 lumens.