Am I Free to Stay?

[cassandrasdaddy]

b ut you can bet when one happens it shatters the lives of internet revolutionaries everywhere

 

[meef]

For my money, Art has it exactly right.

Talk to the guy. Talk his freaking ear off. Make him look at his watch and suddenly remember he had an appointment somewhere that he's late for.

You can't believe how much fun that can be.

Just remember back to the last time a motormouth cornered you and how active your mind became trying to think of some way - ANY way - to disengage and escape.

Try it, it honestly works like a charm.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

some folks have personality "peculiarities " that make that hard to do

 

[TexasRifleman]

Talk to the guy. Talk his freaking ear off.

Well the law types that speak on this topic advise keeping your mouth shut so that is probably sound advice.

You might just talk yourself into a ride somewhere you didn't plan on going.

 

[meef]

Well the law types that speak on this topic advise keeping your mouth shut so that is probably sound advice.

You might just talk yourself into a ride somewhere you didn't plan on going.

I didn't say confess to being the Green River Killer or Jack the Ripper. I just said talk his ear off. What, you can't think of any inane things to say to somebody that won't incriminate you?

To quote Art's original ideas:

If he asks about my Shotgun News, Guns&Ammo or Soldier of Fantasy magazine, I'll immediately say something along the lines of, "Can you believe these prices, these days?" and ask him his views on what gun is best for zombies. Ask him how his deer season went, and what's his pet load?

That's just the beginning, get creative. Ramble on.... and on.... and on....

Lord knows my in-laws can do it.

 

[TexasRifleman]

What, you can't think of any inane things to say to somebody that won't incriminate you?

One wrong thing and you've opened the door. Why risk it?

Art lives in Terligua, a small town where pretty much every one knows everyone. I grew up in Breckenridge, TX where things were the same.

I'd have no problem having these conversations in Terlingua or Breckenridge but try it in Dallas or Houston and it's an entirely different world. Just be careful in any interaction with law enforcement.

Like the old joke goes; Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[meef]

Like the old joke goes; Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

I experimented with paranoia once. I didn't like it and never went back to it again.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

A very simple solution

You people seem to be making a bigger deal out of this hypothetical situation than it needs to be.

If a LEO comes up to you and starts asking you very intrusive questions/personal questions, simply lay down your book/magazine, look them straight in the eye, and politely ask: "Is there a problem Officer?"

At that point, if the LEO is on actual police business, he should say something like: "A person matching your description was just seen robbing the Qwik E Mart." If that is the case you should answer his questions in a polite and professional manner so that he can quickly get back to chasing the real badguy.

However, if the officer says something like: "Just curious" or "Just making conversation" it is perfectly all right for you to say: "I am not interested in having a conversation, please let me read my book." If the officer persists or gets agitated, simply ask your first question again: "Is there a problem?"

99 times out of 100 an officer asking you questions like that would either be conducting an investigation, or simply curious. On the off chance that you do encounter some anti-gun cop who is looking to harass you, remember to stay calm, polite, and courteous. If the cop does try to arrest you on some made up charge, the rest of the cafe will be able to testify that you were not a threat.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Meef, are you talking about this sort of "talking?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rktn2CN8bos

These men are heroes, for treating the pompous, puffed-up, arrogant media, politicians and do-gooders as they deserve to be treated: not at all as seriously as they take themselves.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[Deanimator]

You're painting a enormously exaggerated picture of life in Chicago.

Live in Chicago a long time, then?

 

[dm1333]

I lived in Mendocino County, CA (hippie central) for four years and never once had anybody question me belligerently about what I was reading. I read gun mags and books in every coffee shop between Crescent City and downtown S.F. If anybody ever did ask me why I was reading something the simplest answer would be "Because I like reading. Do you have a problem with that?" OTOH, while shooting at a gravel pit outside of the village of Mendocino I have had hippies with dreads stop to look at the guns I was shooting and even comment on the nice walnut on a couple of them.

 

[Deanimator]

They might not have the Second Amendment in Chicago, but they do still have the first.

You'd be mistaken there.

 

[meef]

Meef, are you talking about this sort of "talking?"

Okay. That works.

 

[kermit315]

I dont see what the problem is. If you dont like the scenario, dont comment on it. If you dont have something constructive to add, dont post and thread crap. If you havent lived in Chicago (as Deanimator has), you probably dont know how day to day life in Chicago really is. Yes, Chicago is loopy, anti gun central, and I could see a scenario similar to this playing out, depending on who is doing the reading. Are you all going to say that we fit some typical description of what an "upstanding" gun owner looks like? What if the person reading that book was dressed out as a complete goth? Do you think that would garner the same reaction as someone dressed in a suit and tie? As someone dressed in a Tshirt and jeans? Has anybody on here met Deanimator in person to know what he looks like?

I am not trying to sound harsh, but I am from Illinois, and have been to Chicago. His scenario, even if it is a little far fetched (which I am not saying it is) is his. As I said before, if you dont have something constructive to add, why threadcrap?

 

[springmom]

You're painting a enormously exaggerated picture of life in Chicago.

Live in Chicago a long time, then?

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

Seriously, I've lived all over, and spent quite a lot of time visiting in Connecticut, New York, and even Massachusetts. I've lived in California. I have, by the grace of God, been able to claim Texas as home since 1988, but I've been around a lot of the country. I have never, ever, EVER had a LEO pay the least attention whatsoever to any book or magazine I ever read...and as an inveterate reader, there've been a ton of 'em. People sitting next to me on a plane, yes. Waitstaff, yes. Cops, no. They're busy with the real requirements of their jobs.

As someone said, if you're approached, the question "is there a problem, officer?" is appropriate. You may indeed look just like the perp that knocked off six convenience marts that morning. If so, you're going to be asked some questions. But cops are not going to prowl the coffeeshops, even in Chicago, to find reprehensible readers of Mas Ayoob.

Springmom

 

[Rmeju]

Not to get on anyone's case, but even if your thoughts that the likelyhood of the OP's question are slim to none are correct, that doesn't matter. At all.

Far-fetched scenarios could (and do) lead to interesting and enlightening legal discussions that could be relevant to things that can (and do) actually happen to people.

Convoluted (or not) scenarios aside, the purpose of the legal section of this forum is being fulfilled on this thread, despite what you may think. For those of you standing on your soapboxes decrying the unlikelyhood of the originally posed circumstances: please stop! You are not helping. In fact, you are hurting.

I have read through quite a bit of interesting legal discussion on this thread. It would've been a whole lot faster and a much better use of my time if half of the posts weren't about tinfoil hats, the slamming of the OP, or any other un-High Road comments.

If you really can't fathom the value of threads like this, please do us all a favor and skip it an move on rather than interfering with other people's learning experience and idea exchange.

Reid

 

[209]

Actually, I can see getting a call similiar to the one that started this thread.

Being as I work in an extremely anti-gun environment, I may well get a call to check on someone reading a gun magazine. Guess what? If dispatched, I'd go. I'd probably try to track down the complainant and ask what the problem is.

Since I am pretty sure the complainant would come up with some irrational and bizzare reason they were concerned about the gun magazine, I would then try to reason with them. That's usually an impossible task, but it's usually fun and entertaining to try.

Reading a gun magazine isn't a violation of any criminal statute I'm aware of. Even if I let my imagination roam to the outer limits of reality, I couldn't possibly twist any policies at the particular institution to say there is a violation of one of them.

I may even talk to the reader. I'd explain that his (or her since some ladies are gun folks... and they can read too) seem to be alarming others. But, I think that would be the end of it and if the reader chose to continue reading, oh well..

Since the institution I work for thrives on the various concepts included in the 1st, to the point they don't block any web sites on the computers since even looking at porn is a freedom of speech issue, what could I say about someone reading a gun magazine.

Now, if it was, let's say, a Starbucks and the manager called me about the evil magazine and said he didn't want that type of reading material in his store, it'd be different. I'd have to tell the person to stop.

 

[moooose102]

i think a more appropriate question to him would be, "are we done yet? i would like to get back to reading my book". that should get the point across.

 

[Deanimator]

Seriously, I've lived all over, and spent quite a lot of time visiting in Connecticut, New York, and even Massachusetts. I've lived in California.

If you haven't lived in Chicago, you don't understand. The Chicago PD once "arrested" a PAINTING from the Chicago Art Institute because it was disrespectful of a deceased mayor.

ANYTHING is on the table in Chicago.

 

[Kentak]

You could reply to unwanted (and unofficial) questions by giving the officer a confused look and answering in sign language.

Making gagging sounds like you're about to hurl lunch might be effective, too.

Is that against the law?

K

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

not only do I have better things to do, but I have never met a cop in my entire life who would give a second look to someone reading a gun magazine. This thread is absurd. You guys just sit around and play up these ideas in your heads for when the pigs come harassing you.

I also assume that you've heard internet stories about people being detained for shotgun news articles or something... give me a break.

I would never in my life stop a citizen with a shotgun news magazine solely on that fact alone. And if I did, i would be having a conversation about all those nice cheap mil-surps they advertise.

 

[ServiceSoon]

I treat all police officers with respect. They have a job to do, which is a noble job. Unless I feel they cross the preverbal civil rights line etc I cooperate.

i doubt law enforcement would give you a hard time for a book. I would think its more likely a manager at the store would ask you to leave.

Law enforcement is very concerned with what library books you check out. Re: Patriot Act.

 

[rainbowbob]

I just stumbled into this thread and couldn't put it down.

Really? A thread about what we should do IF an LEO ever hassled us about our reading material? Not that it has ever happened - but what if it did?

No...I mean really?

This gets my vote for "Most Ridiculous Thread of the Month" (MRTOTM).

 

[coloradokevin]

Is Ohio really so bad that you really need to worry about that?

No, it isn't. I lived in OH for 24 years, and owned guns for much of that time.

This is just another creatively imaginative hypothetical from what I can see.



And, I'll also chime in with "Dontburnmyflag" in saying that I'd never stop a citizen based on their gun-related literature. If they looked like I wouldn't be interupting them, I might even start talking guns with them! No different than when I see someone reading a Backpacker magazine, and strike up a conversation with them about hiking (another interest of mine).

Actually, I can see getting a call similiar to the one that started this thread.

Being as I work in an extremely anti-gun environment, I may well get a call to check on someone reading a gun magazine. Guess what? If dispatched, I'd go. I'd probably try to track down the complainant and ask what the problem is.

Ahhh, I love "refused" complainants. I'll drive up. Note on my log sheet that no criminal violation was present... back in service. In the highly unlikely event that I was ever given that call, I probably wouldn't even get out of the car without more information. If the complainant provided a name/phone number/agreed to meet us, I'd ask them what the issue was too. Quite honestly, if that hypothetical situation ever occurred, it would probably be one in which one of my Sgts would get on the air to tell dispatch "Tell the complainant that we aren't sending a car on that call, and put the car back in service"



Overall this seems like another anti-authority imagination at work again on THR.

 

[Deleted member 66305]

This presumes that you are stopped while going from point a to point b. What if on the other hand, you're at a location carrying on a legal activity and you're subjected to undesired police attention? Say for instance (as is almost always the case) I'm sitting in a restaurant or coffeeshop reading "Smallarms Review" or some $75 book on the Maxim gun. What do you do if for whatever reason, a cop comes up and starts asking you intrusive and or hostile questions based on your completely legal firearms related reading material? I don't want to ask, "Am I free to leave?" since I don't WANT to leave. I'm eating a meal or drinking a cup of coffee. I don't want to ditch my coffee or meal because somebody's giving me an unjustified hard time.

Based on most of the cops I know, I'd imagine if they started asking you questions based on the title of the book you were reading, they were simply interested and striking up conversation.

I'd certainly recommend assuming friendly conversational intent until and unless it was VERY clear it wasn't.