Am I the only one?

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plumberroy

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Who thinks short self defence type shotguns should have a little choke or screw in chokes? I love short shotguns but everthing Ive seem is cylinder bore . I think improved cylinder or choke tubes would make a far more versitile gun buckshot would benifit from a slight choke and alot slugs shoot decent in I.C. chokes
Roy
 
In a SD situation, I don't think choke size really matters, does it? It's not like your dealing with distances of 30+ yards
 
No, not by a long shot :D

I've been experimenting with shorter (18" to 21") shotgun barrels and buckshot for a good while now. It's pretty clear that a nice long forcing cone has a good effect on buckshot patterns - as predictable as anything might be with shotgun barrels. Some of the barrels I've experimented with have had choke tubes installed. Some have fixed chokes up to MOD. Some are factory CYL bore.

Here's the conclusion I've come to, in the face of the current ammo scarcity - I'm happier with more choke for buckshot (other than FliteControl loads). With 'ordinary' buckshot, I'll take a MOD choke, please. Choke tubes will work, but Remington still makes a factory MOD choked 18.5" 870 barrel with rifle sights that is pretty much the bee's knees for a multipurpose shotgun.
 
You could get an 870 Express Tactical. I'd sell the silly tactical choke tube they include to offset some the cost of the shotgun as well. I wish Remington would sell the barrel used on the 870 ET as a stand alone item, but of course they don't. I know a local predator hunter who really likes the Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote choke tube for getting tight buckshot patterns at long range, so that might be worth looking into for any shorter bbl you find that will take screw in choke tubes.
 
Unless we're talking fully rifled barrel w/o choke tubes takes away much from gun's value. I bought 20ga Wingmaster with straight stock plus 23" Remchoke VR barrel. Just like with big game bolt gun the 23" tube on repeater shotgun is about perfect.
 
Chokes shouldn't be a huge concern, IMO. Measure out the longest possible shot you'd need inside your house, it probably won't be longer than 15 yards. Most HD shots would be much shorter than that. In my patterning with my over bored shorty, I'm putting all pellets inside a torso-sized target at 18 yards.
If the predator is outside or at a longer distance, you've got time to get out a rifle and wait for the 911 call to go through.
 
Remington only makes one barrel for my 870 Sucks to be a lefty at times chokes in a defence gun changes it from a one trick pony into a camp gun or a walk about gun For those that are only out to hunt a certain animal it might not be a concern. For a woodsbummin' gun a short gun with out having to have it worked on would be nice. Federal flight control ammo helps some but in 12 ga it only comes in kick the bejesus out you shot loadings
 
I run fixed modified on mine fighting guns. Choke does not matter inside as these shots are at feet not yards. However, once outside a decent combat spread at yards could be needed. So, I have the 18.5" fixed modified with tritium bead on my main fighting shotguns except for one that is still 18.5" fixed modified but has Meprolight tritium rifle sights.

If you will notice Remington does not make any of the 18.5" Police barrels with choke tubes. The reason is that choke tubes are for small shot and not heavy loads. No matter what anyone says about this or what the Remington marketing for the Civilian Tacti-fool shotguns is. It is simple. Choke tubes are stainless steel and if you scew one out and look at the threads you will see the reverse of the threads in the barrel. They are very small. If you shoot mostly slugs and buck shot this is the issue. These pull harder against the tube. Stainless steel being pulled against the softer steel of the barrel threads means one day that sucker goes down range and it will very soon if you don't check that choke and ensure it is tight before each range session. Or is there is the slightest flaw. You don't have to know much about metal to know how hard stainless is compared to the steel in that barrel.

The offical response from them as to why these are on the Cilvian tacti-fool shotgun is unacceptable to me. They say the P model is built for heavy buck shot and slugs and for heavy use for many years. And that cilivians do not put their guns through the heavy use that LEO's do. What crap. Most of the people here shoot far more then the average LEO. Many LEO's only fire a shotgun twice a year at re-qual and then sometimes that is only a few rounds.

So, if you are going to use a lot heavy loads in a threaded barrel stick with a choke no more restricted then I/C. Check the choke before each range session. If you are going to have a barrel threaded. Get it done by a guy with a good track record. A shotty job can fire 5 round or 5,000 and send the choke down range of fracture the barrel. A professional job will last you your life time if you maintain it properly. So if you stay will a choke tube no more restrictive then I/C and maintain it, shoot on.

And yes, I doubt I will ever shoot enough buck shot or slugs to wear on such a barrel ( not that I have any) as at 60 my shooting is down from my younger years. But each situation is different and there are guys reading this that will shoot 20+ times the ammo I shoot in a year and the competition Shooters will shoot in a year what I shoot in 10 years.
 
Fred Fuller said:
IIRC LE132-00 is a reduced recoil load, so is the LE132-#1 load.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge/250-round-case-12-gauge-le13200-low-recoil-buckshot-ammo
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Yes I have some of that buckshot. I was talking shot/small game loads Their prairiestorm loads shoot honest modified patterns in my old H&R mod 162 buck cylinder bore slug gun but @ 1400 fps 1 1/4 loads they are not for the meek out of a 5 1/2 gun The black cloud steel loads will get close to full choke patterns but the same applies. I like old 70's H&R's slug guns for walk about guns light handy and a 24 in barreled single is as short as, or shorter than an 18.5 barreled pump . flight control loads make these guns true foraging guns capable of taking small game up to deer size game. But the federal 12ga loads available with flight control are above the recoil level most can regularly handle in a light gun, with out developing problems. 20 ga smooth bore H&R slug guns are hard to come by those that have them don't let them go often
Roy
 
I've never thought of an HD specific gun being versatile.

Any of the HD guns here are perfect big game shotguns 'as is.' And in a pinch would do for upland game or small to large pest control as well. And they are great 'fun guns' for use on the flat range - or in class.

Ten minutes with basic tools, a spare field type barrel and maybe a standard magazine cap and magazine spring will turn most of the 870s here (those without ghost ring sights) into perfectly useable field guns for clay games, small game hunting or wingshooting.
 
Fred Fuller said:
I've never thought of an HD specific gun being versatile.

Any of the HD guns here are perfect big game shotguns 'as is.' And in a pinch would do for upland game or small to large pest control as well. And they are great 'fun guns' for use on the flat range - or in class.

Ten minutes with basic tools, a spare field type barrel and maybe a standard magazine cap and magazine spring will turn most of the 870s here (those without ghost ring sights) into perfectly useable field guns for clay games, small game hunting or wingshooting.
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except for the fact that reminton only makes 1 barrel for us lefties for the 870
 
I have always liked shorter shotguns just because they swing quick!
WHen I built my Westernfield/Mossberg into a HD gun, I was pidturing it as a good rabbit gun. It'd swing like a champ
You can control your shot spread by just sizing your shot down. #6 or8 would likely give a good 25 yard pattern. Good enough to cover a running Jack... BPDave
 
except for the fact that reminton only makes 1 barrel for us lefties for the 870

But any good shotgun 'smith can make a spare one of those into anything you want within reason ... I've used Colonial (http://www.colonialarms.com/) for years and been happy with their work, there are any number of well known barrel specialty shops out there who can do good work at a fair price.

And you only need to do it once... :D
 
Any of the HD guns here are perfect big game shotguns 'as is.' And in a pinch would do for upland game or small to large pest control as well. And they are great 'fun guns' for use on the flat range - or in class.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what my HD wingmaster was marketed as...a deer gun and it has an 20" smoothbore rifle sighted barrel with IC choke. I bought an 18.5" cyl bore barrel for my mossberg and when I put it on the gun my first thought was "what a dandy quail gun this will be" I bought a 20" VR barrel (marketed as a security barrel) for it that's threaded for chokes and it ought to make an excellent turkey gun as well as rabbits and squirrel. Of course where long yet somewhat still fast shots are concerned I'll stick to a longer barreled wingmaster so as to prevent starvation.

Also wanted to add that I have been wanting one of Remingtons 18.5" security barrels that are threaded for choke tubes or one of the chrome lined Carlson's versions, but I cannot bring myself to put a black barrel on a wingmaster. Sooner or later I'll end up with one though as the want for one still wont go away.
 
AI&P Tactical said:
You don't have to know much about metal to know how hard stainless is compared to the steel in that barrel.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'd say you have to know quite a lot about the exact steel alloys used to be able to say anything at all about the relative hardness of the choke vs. the barrel tube.

There are many stainless alloys that are softer than many, many non-stainless alloys. The exact alloy used and how they are heat treated makes all the difference in the world.

If you're saying that you know that THE stainless alloy, heat treated in THE specific way shotgun manufacturers do it (or don't do it), is harder than THE non-stainless alloy used in the barrel, ok. I'll buy that if you back it up with some documentation.

If you're saying stainless is just harder than "carbon" steel, period, I'm afraid you've been misinformed terribly.

...

Having said all that, I've never heard of choke tubes blowing out of shotgun barrels with heavy buckshot loads -- at least not in numbers worth noting.

If you have, I'd like to see some links or reports about that to back it up as well.
 
Plumberroy, have you thought about a Browning BPS? They're ambidextrous with their bottom ejection. The Upland Special has a 22" bbl with Invector Plus choke tubes.
 
Actually, I'd say you have to know quite a lot about the exact steel alloys used to be able to say anything at all about the relative hardness of the choke vs. the barrel tube.
Click to expand...

I used to do quite a bit of knife collecting and that interest led me to research a bit of metallurgy which I've now forgotten, but there's a lot of different grades of stainless steels and different types of heat treatment required.
There's not many different types used in choke tubes though (only a couple or so) but when you consider the fact that Remington's flush mounted full chokes are rated for steel use where they get used hard every season by waterfowl hunters I surely don't see how buckshot could ever harm them.

Also factory barrels that are threaded for tubes were designed for them and have a larger outside diameter than standard barrels at the muzzle. The only tube I've seen blown out of a barrel was one that was threaded for tubes by a gunsmith that didn't take into account the diameters needed for the particular tubes he threaded it for.
 
Anybody ever hear of a duckbill spreader for a short shotgun barrel?

Yes. The last one I know of to be marketed was the A&W Diverter. I have one on a 20" 870 riot barrel, it works as advertised with #4 buck in producing a horizontally spread pattern. I consider it a historical novelty...

I see http://www.paradigmsrp.com/our-products/gator-shotgun-spreader/ is advertised as a current option - I'm not impressed by the design, personally. YMMV of course.
 
ugaarguy said:
Plumberroy, have you thought about a Browning BPS? They're ambidextrous with their bottom ejection. The Upland Special has a 22" bbl with Invector Plus choke tubes.
Click to expand...
I have but, I have never had a browning in my hands that felt "right" to me. I would have to find one in stock so I could handle it. 70's remington guns had reversable safeties So I know they work. Lawyers ruined that for us:fire:. Personally I think lawyers should be legal game but that should go in another section like maybe hunting :evil:
Roy
 
plumberroy said:
I have but, I have never had a browning in my hands that felt "right" to me. I would have to find one in stock so I could handle it. 70's remington guns had reversable safeties So I know they work. Lawyers ruined that for us:fire:. Personally I think lawyers should be legal game but that should go in another section like maybe hunting :evil:
Roy
Click to expand...
I hefted several in 20ga, 16ga, 12ga, and 10ga. They all felt like badly balanced heavy pry bars. The only winner would be 10ga for long-range fowling or turkey hunting where extra weight is a good thing.
 
Fred Fuller said:
Anybody ever hear of a duckbill spreader for a short shotgun barrel?

Yes. The last one I know of to be marketed was the A&W Diverter. I have one on a 20" 870 riot barrel, it works as advertised with #4 buck in producing a horizontally spread pattern. I consider it a historical novelty...

I see http://www.paradigmsrp.com/our-products/gator-shotgun-spreader/ is advertised as a current option - I'm not impressed by the design, personally. YMMV of course.
Click to expand...

Thank you, and I'll heck out that link!
 
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