Am I wrong in this? (Mosin Nagant Question)

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Big_E

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Recently, I have taken in a new protege in the world of shooting. Whenever he wants a new gun or has a question about something, he comes to me.

Lately, he has been bugging me about buying a "sniper" rifle. He said he wanted to get a Mosin Nagant 91/30. So, I said okay. Then he told me he wanted to scope it, (with those cheap rear sight mounts) and shoot long range (600+ yards).

Now, it may be my personal bias getting the better of me (I used to hate Mosins, now I am indifferent but love their value). I am telling him that he will be very disappointed. Shooting corrosive surplus, with a non accurized MN will yield sub par results. By the time he gets the rifle shooting the way he wants, it will be a lot of smithing time and money. He is a really small fella and the MN is a pretty big/awkward gun, I think stock fit will be very poor for him, despite accuracy discrepancies.

Another thought, I just hate it when people hack up a piece of history or modify it to try and fill a role it will struggle to fulfill. I also don't understand why some people feel the need to scope everything.

Here is what I told him: He is better off buying a modern hunting rifle, even if it costs $150-250 more than a MN. He wants to start reloading anyway, so the benefits of cheap non reloadable surplus is pointless.

I think he should just buy a Marlin X7 Varmint in .308. Easier to scope, has a heavy barrel, stock will fit better, more accurate, better trigger, etc...

I also think he should buy a Mosin to practice with open sights at 300-400 yards. When he is ringing the gong with that setup, he should have no problem moving into the world of scopes, better gear/ammo and longer ranges.

I also told him to read articles on demigodllc. Since Zak Smith is a darned genius.

tl;dr
I think the scoped Mosin Nagant 91/30 would be a poor choice for 600+ yard shooting, given the better options out there and handloading. Plus it is messing with a war relic. Is my opinion correct?
 
Speaking as someone who has modified one (with fairly good results) yes, he would be money ahead to get a Savage or Rem .308. If you are handy, it can be a fun project to try and see how accurate they can be. I did it soley because I like to make/machine things. That being said, my Savage's are FAR more accurate.

A 91/30 done right I think can be decent out to maybe 400 yards w/ surplus. However, to shoot 600+, he going to need a good rifle capable of well under sub MOA using GOOD ammo.

Here is my 13 year old son shooting my Mosin project at 330 yards. This was a good day as he put 4-5 rounds into a 3" area at 330Y using Russian surplus. Dark spots on tank below .50 cal hole was his POA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwxI0xwybjQ&feature=plcp
 
A Mosin could be perfectly capable for gongs or the like out to 600 and beyond, but it'll be a hell of a challenge. 7.62x54mmR can be reloaded without too much difficulty, brass is relatively easy to find. I agree that it'd be a lot easier with a modern-made rifle, but if he wants to try it out, let him. I find the rear sight scope mounts pretty distasteful- my scoped MN has a PU setup. I'd make him practice at 600 with the irons. ;)
 
You may want to give this thread a read. The Mosins are fine rifles for the buck. When we start talking about accurate rifles at 600 yards using a scope the scope alone will exceed the cost of the rifle. Additionally personally I don't see a Mosin delivering great accuracy at 600 yards.

On a budget I would be looking at a new heavy barrel Savage using a decent scope. That will not happen for the cost of a Mosin.

So I agree as to a poor choice.

Just My Take
Ron
 
I have a Mosin my self and while its fun to shoot I don't think it would be worth the time and energy to scope it. Some have had good result with the Mosin but you have to take the time to find one with a good barrel. I would say Iron sights are probably better to stick with and put your money into another gun.

With the numerous amounts of Mosins available I don't mind people modifying them. I have put one in a new stock myself. But when you will have more money in modifications than what the gun is worth and have not really added much value to the gun I see it as a waste.
 
i agree with the OP completely.. people assume that since mosin nagants are bolt actions, they must be accurate.. not true, these were military issue rifles whos only requirement in accuracy was minute-of-torso.. that being said most ammo you find for it is crap, and if you intend to reload, bullet selection for .311-.312 is crap as well

it would cost more to make an MN into a "sniper rifle" than it would be to make a savage or remington 700... he should forget the mosin nagant and get one of those instead, preferably in .308 or one of its derivatives
 
A commercial sporting rifle built for the purpose would probably be more satisfying. The Mosin is not really all that suitable for modification into a long-range target rifle. There are those who enjoy firing genuine Mosin snipers at long range (wish I had somewhere I could fire my PU sniper at 600 yards) but a WWII setup is not for everyone, and perhaps not for your friend.
 
Ok thanks for the quick replies.

If he could find a genuine "sniper" Mosin or a Finnish. Then I think it could work a lot better, still the issue of scoping it though.

I said a Swiss K-31 would be a good choice too, but I don't know anything about scoping them.

I really am glad I got a guy that is becoming more involved with shooting confiding in me. It finally gets me out to go shooting again. I cut him some slack because I remember when I was new to the big world of shooting and firearms. Trying to trick out guns with cheap stuff and whatnot and thought optics were awesome to have on everything.

Now that I am more experienced I find iron sights enjoyable, plus with the savings you can afford more ammo to practice with. I will probably tell my friend the same thing. I just don't want him to get discouraged when he is having trouble landing hits, or modifications aren't working out for him. At least he knows that he needs to invest money into a good optic, not those cheap Chinese toys he's been buying for his 15-22.

**He also seems to think that the highest magnification scopes are the best for everything. I need to break him of that as well. For the hell of it I may buy a 30x scope and mount it on my AR and show him how hard it is to hold still. He is still learning though. I had to figure out most everything myself from forums and experience, so I think he is lucky to have me around. :)
 
ill admit it.. i own a mosin nagant, at their prices, who cant afford not to have one?.. and i have to say i hate it.. worse bolt action ive ever shot.. its not comfortable at all, kicks like a frickin mule, costs me about $1 per round for even cheap, low quality ammo, and its such a reach to get that bolt forward of the rear ring that you have to shift your body quite a bit to cycle it, losing your target entirely.. wish i saved up an extra $100 and bought a mauser
 
Jason,

Go online you can find 880 rnds of surplus for about 160 plus shipping. I do not expect great accuracy from the rifle so I do not worry about paying for good ammo. I shoot mine for fun. It all depends on what you want out of it. The bolt is clunky on mine and not a joy to cycle. I did just invest in a mauser that I am quite fond of. Every now and then I like to pull out the flame thrower/rifle.
 
big e.. make a game out of it.. give him iron sights, and only when he achieves accuracy to hit enough consecutive targets at a pre-determined range do you let him use a scope and increase the difficulty.. and as he improves you can increase the power... before he gets to the high powered scopes he will realize theyre not necessary
 
For scoping the K-31, see Brownell 'Swiss Products' clamp-on mount: I have used this mount design on my K-31's with great success. The K-31 has a much better stock than the MN, an excellent trigger, and with it's issue ammunition is considered the most accurate service rifle of it's era. Plus being a 'true' .30 caliber, you have all the .308 bullets available to handload with.
A group of Swiss Rifle shooters have fielded a team for the vintage military match at Camp Perry, and did quite well. Can't say that for the MN.
 
I have a few Mosins that are very accurate rifles. Here's one, a Czech VZ54/91 Sniper's rifle:
 

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Thanks again y'all.

I've been wanting to get a K-31 for awhile and the clamp on mount looks pretty cool.

I'm going to go over options with the guy tomorrow. He wants to be budget, but long distance shooting isn't really a budget friendly sport. That's one reason I don't have any more of my more accurate centerfires. I enjoy plinking with carbines and find it a little cheaper. Even though I love shooting at targets way out.
 
Well in regards to the suggestion for the Marlin XS7 in .308, I can offer this. While I haven't had it out on paper for groups I can say that the build I have (Marlin XS7 and Bushnell 3200 10X) was about $550 after taxes, transfer and shipping costs for the two and I can hit my ranges 600M steel target all day long from a bench. Not saying this is the best price for the scope and rifle but it should be an idea of what his budget will need to be, prolly on the low end.
 
Here's another, a Finnish M28/77 with Finnish scope and mount.

I agree, though, that standard Mosin rifles should not be cut up or scoped. That is not what they were built for. You'd get more success out of either one made for long-range precision shooting or, a cheaper option, a nice commercial rifle like a Savage.
 

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You guys must have a better 91/30 than me I can barely hit a target at 50yds with brown bear ammo. But to answer the original question I think you can blame enemy at the gates for everyone wanting to turn a Mosin into a sniper. Its a great gun for the price and I'd tell anyone interested in having a bolt action military rifle to go for it, but the ones capable of sniper accuracy cost more than the $109 you see at buds.
 
Ash, where did you get that custom stock? Did you make it?

Another question. How much does it cost to reload for 1 round of .308 (I know there are variables but an average estimate would help.
 
Big E, you're right. A Nagant could serve as a passable sniper rifle in a pinch, but there are much better options for the money.

Remington 700 or Savage 110 series are the way to go, for the best selection and prices in aftermarket add-ons. Just your basic hunting rifle with a good optic can serve quite well as a sniper/long range precision rifle, and is a great way to learn the basics of long range shooting.

Also, have you taken this kid to an Appleseed yet? If not, you really need to. You guys would have a great time. I know he would enjoy shooting Army Qualification Tests and trying for that Rifleman patch. He can go with his 15/22 and have a blast. www.appleseedinfo.org
 
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