Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tuner--
With the current fad of external extractors on 1911 Pattern pistols the firing pin stop does not have the keep the extractor from clocking does this make the fitting any easier?? I assume that an non series 80/schwartz safety pistolwould take an OS series 70 stop.
 
Norinco Compact

Fast becoming my most favored pistol to shoot (after Tuner tunerized parts of it).
Put 15 mags thru it today(cast reloads), nary A bobble :D
Wonder if less radius on the stop will help the little baby 1911 copies? :confused:
 
I'm ordering them now. Thanks! I have a new Dremel tool with over 100 attachments so I can make anything fit anywhere. :D
 
Dremel?

>I have a new Dremel tool with over 100 attachments so I can make anything fit anywhere.<
*****************

:eek:

ShootCraps...Put the Dremel down, back away from it, and nobody gets hurt.

HRT...Not sure which type stop the external extractor-ed pistols with the
Shwartz FP safeties use. I haven't been into one yet to see. They keep comin' up with this new-fangled stuff without tellin me, see... :D
Anybody familiar with Kimbers watchin'? We need answers!
 
Headspace

Where can you get gauges to measure Headspace of some of these so-called Custom Gunsmiths? :confused:
It would take a lowboy to deliver a gauge this size :evil:
 
Bull Shooters

>Notice that some of the Bulls Eye greats would go the other way and radius the hammer to smooth the action.<
*************

Ummmm...Okay! :cool:

Actually, I think that radiused hammer is to limit overcocking and to reduce
friction with the slide...but I don't have much truck with bullseye guns, so I really can't be sure on that point.

Jammer noticed pretty much the same thing as Ken did though...Said his old Springer is runnin' smoother with the small radius stop.
 
On Bullseye guns ...

Sometimes the front of the hammer face was radiused to delay the hammer's backward movement. This in effect gave the slide a running start and was usually used in so-called softball guns combined with light 185 or 200 grain mid-range loads. It also worked well with .22 conversion units. John Browning would have just shook his head, but in some applications it worked very well.
 
ken- would it be possible for you to post photos of each firing pin stop side by side?

As I'm having some trouble picturing how it looks and how it works, I second that, please-or a drawing, or something. Please and thank you-the 1911 godz will pay you back Tuesday for this hamburger you give me today :)

Chris
 
I'll try to find a picture, but for the time being look at the firing pin stop in your pistol (or just a firing pin stop) and think of one that is as flat on the bottom as it is on the top. Today's firing pin stops are rounded at the botom when you look at it from the side. What Tuner is talking about is more square and less rounded.
 
Bullseye Hammer Mod

Fuff said:

Sometimes the front of the hammer face was radiused to delay the hammer's backward movement.
***************

Yo Fuff! Clark shot me a PM and described the mod. Once he mentioned Behlert, I knew what he meant. I had it in my mind that it was the angled face that Ken Hallock used to do. I recently did a slight modification on a hammer and a FP stop...gave it a larger radius...on a softball gun that I fixed up for Kelie. The 5-inch gun cycles smartly with 185 grain SWCs loaded to
600 fps Feels like a 9mm. Now, if I could just save some of the ammo for her.... :rolleyes: :D
 
Actually it was Austin who first showed me the trick. If you are building a specialized bullseye match pistol using powderpuff loads this is the way too go. This is particularly so with heavy (ribbed) or long slide pistols. Service pistols and hardball guns are entirely different. What we have here is a "tools vs. toys" issue. Both methods are correct when used for a particular purpose.

When the slide recoils the firing pin stop presses against the hammer face and cams the hammer backwards. Depending on how much the stop is radiused on the bottom, and the shape of the hammer face, the resistance the hammer presents to being rotated will be relatively light (good for some kinds of match guns) or heavy (good for service pistols or other firing heavy ball loads). During the slide's cycle the hammer (which is under spring tension) works as a brake along with the recoil spring to slow the slide's velocity. Where the recoil spring is most effective at the end of the travel the hammer does its thing at the begining. This is important because within micro-seconds you want to keep the slide and barrel locked together until the bullet has exited and breech pressure dropped. After that the recoil spring's main job is to return the slide to battery. Too many people try to control recoil by installing extra-heavy recoil springs. This is often a mistake if the pistol is correctly set up the way Browning intended, and as Tuner has explained. The EGW firing pin stop comes with no radius on the bottom so the 'smith can shape it for whatever he has in mind. In the matter under discussion this is important because it is the only stop on the market that isn't over-radiused in the first place.
 
O.K. ....

The attached is a picture of an EGW firing pin stop. On the left you see it as it comes from the manufacturer. On the right you see the small radius that Tuner has explained. I'll leave it to him if someone wants more details. Clearly this man knows what he's doing. I would observe that the modification may make it harder to pull the slide back by hand (which is why the Army made a change to the current configuration with a larger radius) but making the slide harder to move rearward is the whole idea.

Edited to add: The picture didn't come through - I'll try again.
 

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Riley...The standard stop has a 7/32nd inch radius. The original...like Ken has...was/is .075-.080 inch, with .078 bein' print spec.
Tuner,

You and I have talked about me doing this to one of my guns before but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I will try and order a FP stop but I had a question as to how to accurately measure that .078" radius.

Also, are you sure about the new standard being 7/32? That's a big jump from .078" to .21" it seems.

Greg
 
Measured

Hey Greg,

The way to accurately measure it is with a radius gauge...but a good set is pricey, and it's not imperative that it's precise. Use a 5/64ths inch drill rod to estimate it. The radius of the rod...half the diameter...is just about right. Just hold the rod up to the bottom corner to see about what the radius should be and duplicate it as close as you can. It's important that the cut is kept even and straight across though. If it's
not, it'll cause a side load on the hammer pin. This is more important than
the radius being precisely .078 inch. Since I cut mine freehand, I doubt if any of'em is exactly on the mark.

Luck!

Tuner

EDITED TO CORRECT DRILL ROD SIZE! Use a 5/64ths rod to estimate the radius by aligning the edges of the rod with the corner. Sorry...hasty
instruction make for bad results.
 
IANAP! (I am not a pistolsmith). And Tuner has forgotten more about 1911's than I ever even hope to know. :)

BUT.

I don't think that the differences here would be reliably perceptible by any normal human being. I think this is probably a false perception. Something I think that even the venerable Tuner might fall prey to from time to time.

The only way to know is to run double blind tests.

Can Tuner or some other advocate do this? I am sure you know how.

Lacking a double blind test, I call BS. It just "don't seem reasonable". Sorta like wine tastings -- with the blindfolds off, everyone is sure that the $200 bottle of wine if far superior to the $10 bottle. With the blindfolds on, no body can reliably spot which is which.
 
Thank you for the photo, Fuff. It looks like what Tuner recommends is juuusst a leeeetle more than breaking the edge of the firing pin stop. It looks quite a bit different than the fps on my Springer, which has a more pronounced rounded radius.
 
Edit Alert

Sorry guys...I put in the wrong drill rod size in my response to Tarpley. See the edited text.

As an alternate method the EGW stop can be beveled lightly to just break the corner and stoned to blend it into a more rounded shape. I prefer the full radius, but either will work.

The egg asked:

The only way to know is to run double blind tests.

Can Tuner or some other advocate do this? I am sure you know how.
*****************

Sure. Just cut one with the radius and use a standard stop in the same pistol. Yes...I've done it. Yes...there is a difference in felt recoil and muzzle flip. Another test is to use a shock buff and see how much longer they last
with the small-radius stop. Again, the difference is the result of the mainspring absorbing a little of the slide's energy and delaying it for just a
fraction of a nanosecond before the slide gets moving. Thus it "bleeds off" a little of the recoil energy in the beginning of the cycle, rather than depending on the recoil spring alone to handle it. Simple physics. If the mechanical advantage used to compress the mainspring is reduced, the slide has to work harder to overcome the spring's resistance to compression, and that takes time. Time to let the chamber pressure drop...Time to get the slide moving at full speed...Time to cock the hammer against the mainspring. The delay is
very short, but things happen fast inside the chamber and barrel. Once the hammer is cocked, the influence of the stop is over...but its mission has been accomplished and the slide moves a little slower as a result. Lower slide speed means less shock when it hits the frame. Less shock means less felt recoil.

Luck!

Tuner
 
I thought that was a little too much radius at 5/32".
For what it's worth,the radius on my Officers ACP is 11/64"(the only one out of the safe to check),so 5/32" wouldn't be much improvment. :)
Robert.
 
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