Another Dog Shot... Since we have been discussing this...

[camslam]

This story was posted in a local paper today about a concealed carry permit holder shooting a pit bull right in the middle of a residential neighborhood.

I thought it might be of interest since we have 7 pages of discussing it in another thread. Sad story, but lots of takeaways from it.

A few thoughts I had:
-The guy was ready to use his weapon and didn't hesitate. Whether you agree with his actions or not, that is a pretty good job of being prepared.

-I liked the attitude of the police and tone of the article. It didn't make the guy out to be a bad guy and the police didn't say boo about him using his weapon in the manner he did.

-This is for the 9 mm haters. A pit bull takes one to the head and is still kicking along. Pretty good shot placement, but not necessarily lethal. I'm not trying to engage in a caliber war, I just thought it was interesting that at point blank range, it didn't kill.


http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/237778/

If John Erickson hadn't had his gun with him when a neighbor's pit bull attacked him, there's no telling how bad things might have been.

Erickson, 22, was walking up to his house on 400 South near 700 West in Orem on Wednesday when a neighbor's pit bull bit him from behind. As he rode his scooter to his house around 8:30 p.m., Erickson saw the dog sitting calmly while a neighborhood girl petted it. Then he parked and took three or four steps toward his house when the dog bit him.

"All of a sudden the dog grabbed my leg from behind," he said.

He swung his scooter helmet at the dog, which backed off for a moment. But when the dog charged forward, Erickson, who has a concealed weapons permit, drew his 9-millimeter pistol and fired at the dog's head. Erickson said he worries about what would have happened if he hadn't been armed.

"There's nothing I could've done. I couldn't run. There's no way I'm going to outrun it. There's nowhere I could go," said Erickson, a student at Utah Valley State College.

Even more, he said he worries about what would've happened if the dog had attacked his wife, Lynn Ann, who came home just two minutes before him, or the many children who walk down that street on their way to and from Orem Elementary School.

Erickson's mother, Lyn Erickson, who lives across the street, said she used to dislike her son's gun.

"Now I'm saying, 'I'm just so thankful he had a gun.' I'm just so thankful because what would you do?" she said.

At Erickson's request, no charges were filed against the dog's owner, said Orem police spokesman Lt. Doug Edwards. Vicious animal citations and letting dogs run free are misdemeanor offenses.

"You can't allow your dog to run at large. It doesn't matter how they get off the property, whether it's a hole (in the fence) or a broken leash. Dogs can't run loose," Edwards said.

The dog survived the shot to the top of its head. Erickson said the owner initially planned to euthanize the dog because its veterinary bills were expected to be as high as $4,000. But the owner had a change of heart and decided not to put the dog down, he said.

The owner of the dog, who Erickson said moved to the neighborhood several weeks ago, was not identified and could not be reached for comment. Orem police would not release the owner's name because no charges were filed.

Erickson said he is now concerned because the hole in his neighbor's fence has not been fixed -- a pile of branches now blocks the hole -- and the dog owner has another pit bull that he worries could get loose and hurt someone.

"Every day little kids from Orem Elementary walk right past the house. It could've been one of the little kids, it could've been my wife who got home two minutes before me," he said.

Lyn Erickson said she plans to talk to police about the hole in the neighbor's fence.

Jeremy Duda can be reached at 344-2561 or [email protected].

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

The dog survived the shot to the top of its head. Erickson said the owner initially planned to euthanize the dog because its veterinary bills were expected to be as high as $4,000. But the owner had a change of heart and decided not to put the dog down, he said.

Uhhhh, urr, um, he has a choice? The dog got loose and attacked someone walking in his OWN yard and the dog isn't getting put down???

I'm confused.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

But the owner had a change of heart and decided not to put the dog down, he said.

Umm...so the owner payed money to put a dog known for attacking people back on the street. This is so insane that they kept it alive. The guy should ask her to pay for the bullet he had to use on it. Good defense ammo costs more than a dollar a round.

 

[JKimball]

Erickson said the owner initially planned to euthanize the dog because its veterinary bills were expected to be as high as $4,000. But the owner had a change of heart and decided not to put the dog down, he said.

Hard to believe he isn't going to put the dog down.

ETA: Guess that point's been covered.

Thanks for the post, Camslam. That's just down the street from my house.

 

[jeepmor]

Pitbulls are oddly protective like that. Somehow it figured this John fellow was a threat to the girl petting it. I don't like the prospects of breed specific legislation, but when the numbers are compiled, it's pretty easy to show a correlation with pitbulls when it comes to dog problems.

In their defense however, my sister in law has two. They were fairly agressive and it used to worry me and I'd be sure to have my CCW when they were around or I visited their home. I usually do anyway, but that is off topic. She had them spayed and neutered (female and male, sibling dogs) and they have become about like labs now. Pretty much no issues of agressiveness any more. My sister in law, sadly, has a well documented reputation via any community she has lived in, for owning dangerous breed dogs that have caused problems. The authorities have intervened on multiple occasions, on multiple dogs over the past 17 years I've known her. I was truly surprised considering her negligent attitude and history regarding dogs. If I were this John fellow, I would demand the dog be put down, period. I would have pressed charges if the dog was not put down within 24 hours. But that's me. Keep reading.

Having a nephew who was bitten in the face by a rottweiler and watching the courts waffle as how to handle it so long that another child bite incident occurred, I champion this fellow for doing what he did. I would have demanded the dog be put down immediately or let him deal with the justice system. I would also make sure my wife is armed from now now on, period, no arguments. There is another pitbull on the property.

 

[Regolith]

Bazooka....most areas won't put a dog down for a bite if its the first offense. They usually do so after two or three biting incidents.

Now, if someone had been seriously mauled or killed, it probably would have been put down, but the dog was stopped before it reached that point.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Loaded,

Actually the guy has one heck of a lawsuit on the neighbor. Then again after all the briefs stopped flying the attornies would own the house next door but he would get the dollar for his cartridge back.

Selena

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I said that because a while back a jogger shot at a stray dog that charged her in front of our house. She missed and it ran away, but that day I learned that some dogs are bad and need to be dealt with. The same dog later bit another jogger in the neighborhood and was taken by animal control.

 

[camslam]

One other thing that was a good reminder for me. You never know when you are going to have to be prepared for something. I'm sure he could have kicked, run, wrestled the dog, etc..., but it worked out that he had his weapon and was ready to use it.

Every day I read in the paper about some situation that you almost shake your head at, thinking, "boy, that is random". The problem is after reading these types of things EVERY DAY, you figure out that they aren't so random.

The boy scouts had it right, when they said, "BE PREPARED".

 

[jeepmor]

He should have kept shooting IMO. Having seen secondhand through my nephew how the court system waits for another incident to get off their duff, I'd be sure to keep firing on the dog. My nephew has a scar he now has to carry for life and he's only 10.

As a dog owner, this statement is not made without a lot of thought. I have one lab mutt/mix dog that likes to get pissy around other dogs while she's on the leash. I've always feared she was going to cross the line and need to be put down. If she ever bites my son, due in December, she will not get a second chance. Oddly enough, it only seems to be other dogs, not kids.

 

[RubenZ]

Pitbulls have huge heads, hard skulls. That 9mm round probably just peeled skin off the top of his head and knocked him out. Bullet probably just bounced off.

 

[camslam]

Pitbulls have huge heads, hard skulls.

Like so many of the riff raff running around these days.

Actually that was my first thought when I read it, and it led to my second thought of, it might have been good to put a few rounds to use.

My sister was bitten by a dog when we were kids, I was 9 and she was 7. I had to kick the dog to get it to let go of her arm and it scared the crap out of me at the time. It is tough when you are dealing with animals that react and act on instinct. Better to be safe than sorry though.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

A pack of pitbulls makes a good case for spare mags and high cap. magazines. Or a 1911

 

[The Unknown User]

I'm not trying to start a heated discussion on caliber, but would a .45 have done any different? I mean, .1" can't make that much of a difference, can it?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Not in the skull...Maybe it would have knocked him out better, or peeled more skin back.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

I am a .38 snubby guy and it was in jest.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Now actually here is a genuine question what caliber to shoot a pit bull in the head and drop it .50 seems there, but I am talking practical like maybe 5.7? What do you guys think?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Now actually here is a genuine question what caliber to shoot a pit bull in the head and drop it .50 seems there, but I am talking practical like maybe 5.7? What do you guys think?

I would have to imagine that most magnum cartridges would do.

 

[Erebus]

I have known many very well tempered and friendly pit bulls. I have also known mean and aggressive pit bulls. The only difference I could find between the friendly ones and the mean ones was the owner.

If they are trained properly they are great dogs. If they are mistreated or neglected they are prone to develop aggression problems.

Unfortunately they have become a big time status symbol in the past couple decades. Leading to large numbers of them that are owned by people that aren't really interested in owning a good dog. They just want the dog to enhance their 'tough' look. Some even consider mean ones a bigger status symbol. No one owns a golden retriever or a collie to look tough. They own the tough/scary looking dogs, pits, dobies, rotties, etc. But if they are in it for an appearance they are not in it to have a good dog, and they won't.

 

[Erebus]

Now actually here is a genuine question what caliber to shoot a pit bull in the head and drop it .50 seems there, but I am talking practical like maybe 5.7? What do you guys think?

Nuke it from high orbit, it's the only way to be sure.</sarcasm?

I'm with Bazooka, I would think any magnum would do.

Correction: Well maybe not any. .357 or better probably would.

 

[bsf]

Nuke it from high orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

The exact quote is "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." That movie is on my 20 Greatest list.

 

[frogomatic]

the owner NOT putting the dog down? ***!

I've shot MY OWN dogs before. Had a little Jack Russel Terrier that got mean with my nephew, then bit him, and I instantly took that little dog out into the back yard and put a 22 in his skull.

I love the 2 dogs I have now (Tessy an english lab, and Roxy a Shiba-inu), but make no mistake, if they ever bite ANYONE (for any reason other than protecting themselves or my family) I will not hesitate to put an end to either of them. That's just the way it has to be.

 

[jeepmor]

Pitbulls, yet another excuse, err....reason, to justify a new compact 10mm to my wife.

In defense of the animal, I think having them spayed or neutered should be mandatory. Removing that testoterone source from the males does wonders for their temperment. However, in my experience, the females were more instinctually agressive.

 

[10 Ring Tao]

I'll tell you one thing, after watching a neighborhood dog bust through it's invisible fence, and then latch itself onto my little brothers thigh when we were riding our bikes on the street at 8 and 6 years old, I'm going to be shooting first and asking questions later if ever charged by an unknown dog.

Emptying the mag if its headed for one of my future kids or wife.

 

[jungleroy]

I was bitten as a child, and even today I have an eye on all the unleashed dogs in my town.
I think shoot to abate the threat, and if it tries to get up again it is still a threat.