Another Dog Shot... Since we have been discussing this...

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I have two dogs, have had em both for 9 years, the male is a full blooded Chow and as everyone who has ever met him knows onea the best mannered chows ya'll ever meet, he has actually helped raise several small kids, his Girlfriend is chow/sheltie mix with sheltie personality and size etc... both are extremally well trained as in ya can talk to em just like ya would onea your kids and ya'll probably get a better response from either of them than ya will from your kid ;) Ya can leave the gates open and neither will cross what they know to be their fence line, well one day when we lived in town still onea the kids left the gate open and they both layed in front of the open gate watchin it to be sure nobody came into their yard...... well this idiot walking by see's big black Phoenix the full blooded chow and draws his .38 Phoenix knows guns and instantly came to his feet and got between the threat and his G-Friend I heard Phoenix and looked at the video monitor to see my dog in his yard, gate open and man pointing gun at him....... I ran outside drawing my 1911 as I came out the door muzzle leveled on the mans chest and ordered him to lower his weapon........

He claimed my dog had threatened him when deputies arrived, problem was.... it was all on video...... never any threat from the dog anyway, they arrested the man and he will never again legally own a weapon, he told the deputy "well he pointed a gun at me" the deputy told him "and your damn lucky it was him and not me... I woulda shot ya right there"

Ya better be d#mn sure when ya draw a gun on a dog it REALLY is a threat, cause if your drawin a gun based on what BREED it is... ya may very well find yourself lookin down the barrel of that dogs owners gun.......... and yes if he had not dropped the .38 I would have put two 230 grn hollow points center of chest at the moment he dropped the snubby he was down to about 2lbs letup left on the 1911........

I am very strict regarding my response to anyone with a drawn weapon, ya had better have a VERY good reason for it being drawn cause until I'm convinced......... your a threat ..... and seeing a chow layin in front of an open gate....... is NOT a good enough reason for your weapon to be drawn ya better just keep right on walking by ................
 
If it were me, and the owner decided against putting the dog down, then I would reconsider my decision to drop the charges.

If it happens again then at least there is (possibly) a conviction on record.
 
I too would demand the dog be put down because if it ever mauled, killed or injured another kid, I would have that on my head for the rest of my life for not taking care of the problem when I could have.
 
Everything was just right or wrong for the bullet to not do the job of penetration. Or if it did it missed the vitals, It is a topic that has been covered many times.

Nine mils are known for penetration etc...Simple

Bullet design is very important. He should have shot twice, mistake on the shooters part :what:
 
I have to say that we are probably looking at the wrong end of the leash. I really believe that the owners have a lot to do with these incidents occurring, either by improper training or improper handling (i.e. the dog around kids unsupervised or running loose). Now don’t get me wrong I will shoot an attacking dog without hesitation but I will be angry at the owner not the dog. Because dogs are a responsibility and should be handled properly just like anything else a person chooses to own. As far as the breed or size of dog it doesn’t matter they all should be handled the same and kept in check by the owner. I see it this way the word dog can easily be replaced by the word gun and the same rules and responsibilities would apply.
 
I don't remember what movie it's from but it was a good quote.
"If you turn the dog loose on me I'm not going to shoot the dog, I'm going to shoot you."
 
Well with the shooting of the dog routine, I have seen numerous Pit bulls dispatched with 00 buck, not a pretty sight.

Guy put one on us as we were making an arrest, back in the early 70's. He was one bad "hombre" and the dog has not caused any more problems. He just got some more and it happened again years later I heard:uhoh:

I really hate to see a Pit off a good leash (chain) I have seen what they can do and have had a friend mauled by them. Not good. That will put you into a nightmare mode, for many years.

I knew/know a guy who was a meter reader (very strong and tough if he wasn't I think he would have been killed) got mauled by two of them (Pacomia CA) Quit his job. Lots of scars, never the same person.:fire:

This book should be read by those who are going to invest in a Guard dog.

http://www.kateconnick.com/library/semencicpit.html

HQ
 
Um.....

I don't remember what movie it's from but it was a good quote.
"If you turn the dog loose on me I'm not going to shoot the dog, I'm going to shoot you."
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and

Ya better be d#mn sure when ya draw a gun on a dog it REALLY is a threat, cause if your drawin a gun based on what BREED it is... ya may very well find yourself lookin down the barrel of that dogs owners gun.......... and yes if he had not dropped the .38 I would have put two 230 grn hollow points center of chest at the moment he dropped the snubby he was down to about 2lbs letup left on the 1911........
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I'm thinking that letting this thread drift into "I'm going to shoot people who {insert behavior here}" is a REALLY good way to get this closed, fast. Nobody has suggested drawing their gun on a dog just because it is a certain breed. And I hope nobody is suggesting that shooting dog owners, or shooting people who defend themselves against a real threat from a dog, is right.

The mods have been amazingly patient with these threads, leaving them open despite what I'll bet has been some moments of doubt about it. Let's not get it closed, eh?

Springmom
 
What do you guys think of this?

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/184716.html

Quote:
A 74-year-old Lake Samish woman shot and paralyzed a neighbor’s 6-month-old puppy who had made his way into her yard Friday.

Bandit, a golden retriever, was seriously injured and had to be euthanized.

Evelyn Wade, of the 500 block of Cedar Acres Street, was cited for discharging a .22-caliber rifle in the direction of neighbors — a citation that requires a mandatory court appearance on the misdemeanor charge, said Whatcom County sheriff’s Chief Deputy Jeff Parks.

Wade could face additional criminal charges for harming the dog, Parks said, should prosecutors decide to press charges.

Vicki Hassi and her husband, Jim, said the puppy belonged to their 11-year-old son, Ethan.

Jim said their lakeside home is bordered by a 6-foottall cedar fence on one side and a 4-foot-tall cattle-panel and wire-mesh fence on the other. Though the barriers extend into the lake, Jim said, dogs can swim around them.

Vicki said Bandit escaped Friday evening and was playing with her immediate northern neighbors, who had a group of people over, including small children and infants.

Wade said she then saw the dog get into her yard. She got her rifle and shot from the door opening on her patio.

“I looked out there, why, oh it was jumping up at my birdhouses and knocked one birdhouse down and that’s what got me all riled up,” Wade said. “Of course I just got the gun and shot at it and I thought it’ll head for home right away. Well it didn’t. I haven’t seen it since.”

Jim said he heard a gunshot at about 6:40 p.m. and ran to find Bandit paralyzed and covered in blood in Wade’s yard. He said he had a brief exchange with Wade, asking her what she had done.

The Hassis, who have lived in the neighborhood for four years, said they rushed Bandit to Animal Emergency Care, where they made the decision to have him euthanized.

“Everyone’s just so horrified,” Vicki said. “I can’t even believe it happened. We’re talking about a defenseless little puppy, we’re not talking about an aggravated, predatory dog. I just think it’s an outrage.”

Wade, who has lived at her lakeside home for 44 years, said she has had problems with neighborhood dogs coming into her yard for years.

“We’ve had a lot of trouble with (the Hassi family) and their dogs,” she said of herself and her husband, who died a year and a half ago. “Everyone on the road here knows I will not tolerate dogs in my yard. I work my behind off trying to make it look halfway decent, and I’ve always had a .22 gun.”

Wade said she has tried to scare dogs away verbally in the past. She also used to shoot birdshot from one of her late husband’s weapons to scare the animals off.

“I don’t shoot because I want to hurt anything,” she said. “You don’t accomplish anything by doing that.”

Wade said she was unaware the puppy had died.

Sheriff’s deputies took the rifle she used Friday, and she doesn’t expect she’ll get it back. She said she has no other firearms, after giving her husband’s weapons to a friend to be sold.

The Hassis said they filed a restraining order Monday to prevent Wade from coming in contact with their family.

“It’s just not warranted,” Vicki said. “You have the right to bear arms, but you’ve got to be responsible.

“I’m scared for my kids,” she added. “We don’t know what’s going to happen. We want the guns taken away.”

Wade said even if she were to get her rifle back, she would no longer use it to scare dogs from her yard. Instead, she said, she would try a loud siren she owns that is designed to frighten dogs.

“I’m so sorry that it’s been this big a deal,” she said. “You get used to a pet and it’s awfully hard.”
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It's a good example of doing something deeply stupid because you think you have a right to. Whether or not she was legally allowed to shoot the dog, doing so because it was messing up her yard was pretty foolish. Esp. given the proximity of neighbors. And whether or not there's a criminal conviction, there will be bad blood and maybe a civil suit. There's already a TRO, which in many states brings with it a long list of automatic restraints that can among other things keep you from buying firearms.

Just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing. Esp. when the thing involves destroying someone elses property with a firearm. Or heck, with a chainsaw for that matter. I know a case where a fellow got tired of his neighbor's trees on his property so he took his chainsaw and cut them all down. Well the trees had been there for over ten years and guess what? His property had become her property, and he got slammed for something called timber trespass and ended up having to fork over twenty large in damages for intentional destruction of her spindly spruce trees!

Think before you act. Some of you may figure she should have a perfect right to kill a stray in her yard. But she wasn't out on a farm or dealing with livestock, and capping off a round in suburbia these days to kill someone's dog can become a very serious matter and lead to longstanding and extremely costly feuds with neighbors. Thus is the world, so you need to understand this before you open fire. As a general rule, you should check with authorities before you shoot any animal that's not an immediate danger to you. If it's feral dogs let them know what you're doing as well, since an infestation of them can be a serious matter. And if calling authorities in your neighborhood to tell them you're going to shoot a dog will bring the SWAT team and a restraining order, then maybe you shouldn't be opening fire at all.
 
Our relatively new addition to the family, a terrier mix, snapped at my hand once. I sorta went alpha dog on her, swatted her right across the muzzle before she could move, and said, "No!" in my best low-pitched growl. She doesn't nip at anyone, now, and is never out of the house off the leash.

She does, however, growl and bark when someone comes to the door. We've had salespeople back up the sidewalk the length of the garage and wait for us to come to the door.
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I have a black lab that I got when she was 12 weeks old and I've had exactly the same experience. It only took me correcting her in this manner about two times before she connected the dots and realized that biting is a no no. You can take her treat away from her, have another dog eat out of her bowl, pull her tail or ears...etc and she'll just look at you like "Why'd you do that?"

Periodically, I will put my hand in her mouth to see if she will bite it. Never has. :) She will still bark and growl when someone knocks at the door, but I have no doubt she will run away if threatened. She's the biggest 55lb scaredy cat I've ever seen. :what:
 
That is a sad story, and is irrelevant to the issue at hand, which was aggressive dogs charging and attacking humans. This puppy did nothing at all to warrant what happened, and I hope the woman goes to jail.

Totally different issue.

Springmom
 
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I've been around a lot of pit bulls and the thing I see with them is once they get it in their head to do something or they get started bitting they wont stop. I've seen some that seemed like really nice house dogs snap at their owners. I don't trust them and will not own one. Seen a few that were never a problem and made good pets, but what if. They have a bad reputation just like the evil black guns.
 
What do you guys think of this?
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Dumb. I keep a Red Ryder BB gun and pepper spray near the back door for "nuisance neighbor mutts" like that. A shot to the behind, and Rover rushes home uninjured and much the wiser... :cool:

And, as the owner of one of our "nusiance neighbor mutts", mine has been on the receiving end, too. He's a fast learner... ;)
 
Pit Bull Attack - After Action Report - Use of Pepper Spray

Had a bit of a run in with a pit bull tonight and employed pepper spray in warding off the attack. The situation and my impressions:

I was walking my two German Shepherds down a fairly well lit suburban street. I passed 3 - 4 guys loading or unloading a truck. We moved into the street to give the guys room. When we were slightly past their house, a pit bull ran from behind a car and attacked my dogs. The next seconds are a blur as I tried to corral 200 pounds of GSD, while employing the pepper spray, while moving away from the pit, all the while trying to protect my dogs the best I could. It was a fun little dance.

Observations:
1) The manufacturer of Muzzle brand pepper spray claims an effective distance of 10 feet. They were obviously using the same ruler used by all fishermen and frat boys. The pepper stream would have to be arced significantly to reach 10 feet. The effective distance is more like 5 feet.

2) The stream is clear and narrow - damn hard to see in the dark. I recommend using an up and down motion to be sure some of it gets in the dog's eyes.

3) I think I got the pit bull during the initial attack. It seemed to check, back off - then lunged again. By that time I was just about under a street light, and was able to aim and hit it for certain in the face.

4) The Muzzle spray manufacturer claims that the spray will incapacitate an attacking dog. This pit was hit full in the face, but kept on. These are powerful, aggressive, and obsessive dogs.

5) Or at least it tried to continue the attack -- After the second spray, I was able to pull my dogs away from the bastard. I don't think it could see anymore. It was still trying to attack, but it was blind, in pain, and guided only by sound. The military would call this a soft kill.

6) At this time, the 'billys who owned the dog finally interceded and chased the dog back to their house. It tried to break off and reattack a couple times, but it was moving somewhat slower and randomly.

7) One of my pups has a small puncture wound and some abrasions. We got away pretty lucky. The guy (father?) whom I talked to/huffed at said it was only a year old female. It was built like a friggin' tank, I would hate to go against a 3 year old male. He did say the dog wasn't "seeing too good" when they tried to get it in the house.

8) We called the cops to report the incident. I don't want pit bulls running around loose in this neighborhood. And.... I used a chemical weapon in California - I wanted my version on record. The responding Corporal asked if he could shoot his partner with the pepper spray - very professional. They left to talk to the pit owners. Haven't heard back from them.

9) Overall, the pepper spray wasn't the vunder veapon I had hoped. It was pretty difficult to use effectively, and it didn't stop the attack immediately. However, it did apparently blind the dog, giving us the necessary tactical advantage to escape or fight on better terms. If I had one of those folding billy clubs (saps) carried by some dog owners, (but, of course, illegal in California) it would have been very helpful.

10) I can attest to the effectiveness of the pepper. I must have got some on my hand, which I then wiped on my brow. I'm just glad I didn't wipe my eyes.

11) Use a CCW? With one hand full of 200 pounds of lunging German Shepherds? Even if I was carrying (in Kali, riiiiight), it would have been an impossibility. However, if the attack had been pressed to a dangerous degree, I would have been forced to slip the dog's leashes and let them defend themselves on even terms. In a similar situation, a retired minister used his pocket knife to slit the throat of a pit bull. I carry a Gerber Ripstop at all times.

I can now definitely identify with the man who shot the attacking pit bull terrier. And with those who say they would have used more rounds of a heavier caliber on those insane sons-of-a-bitches.
 
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Charlie --

Perhaps you could use a walking stick while strolling with your GSDs. I have chased off multiple aggressive dogs just by shaking a stick at them (though one almost got brained). I always, always carry a walking stick while out with my pup. And a .38, too.
 
I employ the two handed leash method. Control hand and guide hand. A walking stick isn't an option.

However, I'm considering a belt loop for my 5 cell mag light. I need some light for cleaning up the dog poop, don't I?

With increasing crime, pit bulls are becoming much more common.
 
Why is it that a group of people as well versed in Media Ignorance, as THR is, accepts stories like this as face value?
When ever a crime or shoot out using an AK-47 is reported people here decry the falsehoods of the media.
But when a dog attacks and is blithely reported to be a Pit Bull people take it as the reporter is a dog expert and can tell a Pit Bull from a Boxer/Lab mix. Or is it permissible for the media to make sweeping generalizations about Dogs and not firearms.

Maybe the same skepticism should be applied to the assault dog as the assault rifle.

I am not defending this dog. This dog, and it's owner are at fault. A shot to the chest probably would have ended this dogs life. The shot to the head, as mentioned, probably cracked the skull and knocked the dog out. Dogs, especially medium to large dogs, are much tougher than most people give them credit for.

When Pit Bull is read in a newspaper article perhaps, it should be treated with the same skepticism as the words assault rifle, automatic and AK47.

Perhaps when breed bans are suggested it should be compared to a caliber ban or a model ban.
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Not one reply to this post, which is likely the most informative post in the thread. Sad really. If you ever wonder how Joe public can get so misinformed about your guns, just look at yourself in regards to your feelings on pit bulls.

Can you do this challenge:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

No? Well, don't feel bad because neither can almost all reporters. Or almost all dog-bite victims, or almost all bystanders. Likely most police can't do it either.
 
CNYCacher
In CA it is a real problem and the insurance carriers have done enough research to not issue policies or cancel, if you own a pit bull of any sort.
Sad but true.

The other day a women was walking a young all white puppy (female 6 mos) and a very big Lab "intact male" was running loose. I saved the women from a very bad situation the loose lab was very aggressive.

After the incident, we were talking about her pup and she mentioned it was a lab/terrier cross. LOL... It was a terrier cross alright.

The point is now they are getting them from the shelters and saying they are something, they arn't.

I really like the breed myself but they do have some problems and one of them is insurance carriers;)

As far as shooting the dog. I could have done it to that big lab but did'nt, instead I and the lady were lucky, the lab was trained and decided to mind.
 
Pit bulls are NOT unreliable or unpredictable. In fact, aggression towards humans is considered a breeding fault. Don't think so? Take it up with the AKC, who probably knows more about dogs than you self proclaimed experts. If pit bulls are such effective biters...why don't police use them as bite-and-hold dogs? Hint: it's because they don't reliably develop human-aggressive tendencies. From the United Kennel Club:
APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed's natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable
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Let's stop the BS here and now and remember that our issue isn't with dogs, but with irresponsible jackasses who abuse animals. Have people already forgotten that Vick idiot? Remember why he was killing dogs off? BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T BECOMING AGGRESSIVE DOGS!!!!

The guy who said that we should treat stories about pits with the same skepticism you view stories about the AK47s you can buy at WalMart hit the nail on the head.

Having worked in an animal rescue for a couple years, I've done some research--firstly, before the explosion in popularity of pits in the late 80s, they weren't any where near the top of the list for bites on humans. Secondly, nearly any short haired medium sized stocky dog is often reported as a "pit" by people who don't know better in many cases, so view those stats you read about with skepticism. Kinda like calling an SKS an AK47. Thirdly, look at the people who find pits so desirable--it's not exactly an enlightened demographic. If a bunch of idiots who abuse and fight dogs starts expressing an interest a breed...the breed's reputation is going to suffer. Ban all the pitbulls and kill them all...and the ghetto idiots will pick another breed to abuse. See point number one.

Ban stupid owners, not dogs.

I find it extremely bothersome that many gun owners, folks who routinely bemoan media bias and inaccuracy, folks who understand how media hype falsely skews public opinion, buy into killer dog hype.
 
true

but sadly also true is that there are way too many stupid/criminal pit owners. i had one i wanted to find a home for and it took me 3 months and he finally went outa state to a guy that qualified. i'm picky i rejected more than a hundred dimwits
 
Not sure the "assault dog" = "assault rifle" comparison has merit.

Despite their "scary" appearance, "assault rifles" are used in less than 2% of gun crimes.

Can you say the same thing about the percentage of pit bulls involved in canine maulings? I'm sure there have been a few cases in which a dog was incorrectly identified as a pit bull, but no matter how you slice it, you aren't going to get down to less than 2%.

Additionally, even if it *IS* the owner's fault, once a pitbull is abused/trained into being aggressive, it can do damage all on it's own. The owner doesn't have to "pull its trigger" to make it "go off" on a victim.

"Assault rifles" still require a human operator.
 
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