Another no-knock raid results in an exchange of gunfire
- Thread starter mzmtg
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dasmi
Member
Lovely.
GTSteve03
Member
I'm sure the intruder was merely searching the residence for possession of illegal controlled substances.
mzmtg
member
carlrodd said:
It's hard to tell the difference in the middle of the night.
TallPine
Member
Not really ... if you are still alive when the smoke clears then it was probably criminals
DoubleTapDrew
Member
The title of this thread is misleading. It was a home invasion.
I do fear no-knock raids will result in exhanges of gunfire, however, usually resulting in the death of the homeowner (be he a BG or a wrong address).
I do fear no-knock raids will result in exhanges of gunfire, however, usually resulting in the death of the homeowner (be he a BG or a wrong address).
Zundfolge
Member
I also fear that the continued use of no-knock raids by law enforcement will create an environment where criminals like the one in the story presented here can masquerade as FBI or other law enforcement and use people's fear of killing cops to their advantage.
In other words, If real cops didn't do this crap, it wouldn't work for the bad guys.
I will agree that the title is a bit misleading ... had you put no-knock raid in scare quotes I'd have no problem with it.
Something like this: Another "no-knock raid" results in an exchange of gunfire
Skywarp
member
I know im gonna catch hell for this.
No knock raids ARE home invasions
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
in·va·sion (n-vzhn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "invasion" [P]
n.
1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
2. A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
3. An intrusion or encroachment.
One is just legal the other isnt unless it's the wrong house then it should be considered a home invasion with serious reprocussions
No knock raids ARE home invasions
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
in·va·sion (n-vzhn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "invasion" [P]
n.
1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
2. A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease.
3. An intrusion or encroachment.
One is just legal the other isnt unless it's the wrong house then it should be considered a home invasion with serious reprocussions
carterbeauford
member
Not at all. If the bad guy was any good he would have dressed the part and maybe not have gotten shot at.
I don't plan on ever doing anything that warrants any sort of SWAT presence on my property, so I assume anyone forcing entry into my home is doing so illegally. Once they are identified they will be neutralized, if needed. Wearing a ski mask and firing at me is a good way to expedite this process.
It is very obnoxious the way that courts and juries take someone yelling "police!" as enough of a warning that the person assaulting you or your home is actually a police officer.
I'd really hate to be convicted of murder for shooting someone who broke into my house in the middle of the night just because they were yelling "police!"
I'd really hate to be convicted of murder for shooting someone who broke into my house in the middle of the night just because they were yelling "police!"
mzmtg
member
GT said:
Ban me.
carterbeauford
member
Well if you look at it simply, the guy didn't knock and then raided his house.
If SWAT had not become so common and so misused, maybe we would not immediately associate "no-knock raid" as a law enforcement term.
If SWAT had not become so common and so misused, maybe we would not immediately associate "no-knock raid" as a law enforcement term.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Exactly right. This outrage needs to be stopped yesterday or sooner. Citizens have a right to know that anyone breaking and entering in the middle of the night is NOT in any way authorized by any legal authority, and needs to be dealt with as an immanent threat to innocent life. The poster above ought to be plastered all over train and bus stations, and all over our cities. People who have not yet considered this situation need to be made aware of it.
Doesn't matter what is shouted, and whether or not it says FBI on their windbreakers and hats. We need to know that NO ONE is authorized to invade a home in this way. The ONLY exception should be a hot pursuit of a demonstrably dangerous suspect (E.g., cops confront the bank robbers, gun fire is exchanged, cops chase bank robbers into 223 Forest Drive, cops surround the house, SWAT performs dynamic entry). Otherwise, you need to come during normal hours that normal people are up and present a warrant in a professional manner at the door.
Had the intruder in the above case been better costumed, the victim and his family could well be dead today, as he may well have complied with orders to drop his weapon. Best advice I can give anyone regarding this is keep a ballistic plate carrier vest next to your bed and a major caliber semi auto rifle right next to it. Shoot first and ask questions later if anyone breaks into your home with a gun in hand.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Given the title of the thread and recent history, "no-knock raids" are discussed as those by law enforcement. The incident in question was NOT by law enforcement. It was simply a home invasion with a person portraying himself as the FBI.
While it may be hard to tell the difference for the home owner, that doesn't make it a no-knock raid. It makes it B&E, impersonating law enforcement, etc. As a person posting the story, you have the advantage of knowing what it was when you posted, unlike the homeowner.
We may not like no-knock raids by law enforcement, but they are legal at the current time. What this guy did was NOT legal.
mzmtg, that is one high dollar gang banger you have shown there. The hatch gloves, surefire light, tactical sling, plus other gear...well it isn't some guy with a ski mask, that is for sure.
While it may be hard to tell the difference for the home owner, that doesn't make it a no-knock raid. It makes it B&E, impersonating law enforcement, etc. As a person posting the story, you have the advantage of knowing what it was when you posted, unlike the homeowner.
We may not like no-knock raids by law enforcement, but they are legal at the current time. What this guy did was NOT legal.
mzmtg, that is one high dollar gang banger you have shown there. The hatch gloves, surefire light, tactical sling, plus other gear...well it isn't some guy with a ski mask, that is for sure.
Geronimo45
Member
"I don't plan on ever doing anything that warrants any sort of SWAT presence on my property, so I assume anyone forcing entry into my home is doing so illegally."
Every few days, there's another story posted here of a no-knock raid that hits the wrong house. Just because you don't violate the slightest bit of the law doesn't mean that SWAT won't hit your place by accident, unfortunately.
Every few days, there's another story posted here of a no-knock raid that hits the wrong house. Just because you don't violate the slightest bit of the law doesn't mean that SWAT won't hit your place by accident, unfortunately.
Zundfolge
Member
True, but if we look at things from a statistical probibility standpoint, I would be much more likely to be hit by gang bangers posing as cops than real cops hitting the wrong address.
If the police mistakenly hit my house then that will suck ... but I'm going to open fire because its not likely real cops.
1911 guy
Member
High dollar gang banger?
I seem to recall, perhaps mistakenly, that Oleg posted an image similar to this one a while back. While no knock warrants are indeed legal, they are not right or moral. Should I ever be the victim of a "wrong address" situation, I'll either be dead or in prison for killing several police officers. Hell of a choice for someone else's screw up.
I seem to recall, perhaps mistakenly, that Oleg posted an image similar to this one a while back. While no knock warrants are indeed legal, they are not right or moral. Should I ever be the victim of a "wrong address" situation, I'll either be dead or in prison for killing several police officers. Hell of a choice for someone else's screw up.
xd9fan
Member
I guess I never saw this coming...........
Sidenote: Cant believe all the dragged out "safe guards" with the death penalty...cause it would be a horror if we kill JUST ONE innocent life.
And then theres no-knocks.......
"At least 40 innocent people have been killed in paramilitary-style drug raids since the early 1980s, as have at least 15 police officers. And there are at least 150 cases of “wrong door” raids, in which SWAT teams or similarly aggressive police units have raided the wrong home."-----http://reason.com/news/show/36869.html
Sidenote: Cant believe all the dragged out "safe guards" with the death penalty...cause it would be a horror if we kill JUST ONE innocent life.
And then theres no-knocks.......
"At least 40 innocent people have been killed in paramilitary-style drug raids since the early 1980s, as have at least 15 police officers. And there are at least 150 cases of “wrong door” raids, in which SWAT teams or similarly aggressive police units have raided the wrong home."-----http://reason.com/news/show/36869.html
Helmetcase
Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
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- 706
Let's remember the opinions expressed here when people in Corey Maye threads start suggesting that maybe just maybe the guy does deserve to die.
Corey Maye could be YOU.
Corey Maye could be YOU.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Thank God the guy had a gun to return fire with.
thexrayboy
Member
Dark baseball cap embossed with SWAT from gas station/gift shop. $12.00
Black neoprene gloves from Home Depot. $9.50
Leapers Tactical entry vest from Cheaperthandirt.com. $37.49
Dickies Khaki colored work clothes from Walmart. $39.90
Used Mossberg 590 shotgun from pawn shop. $290.00
Nylon tactical sling from Sportsmansguide. $12.97
3Volt Lithium tactical light with weapon mount from Tapco. $49.99
Being able to impersonate a SWAT officer on a raid. Priceless
Black neoprene gloves from Home Depot. $9.50
Leapers Tactical entry vest from Cheaperthandirt.com. $37.49
Dickies Khaki colored work clothes from Walmart. $39.90
Used Mossberg 590 shotgun from pawn shop. $290.00
Nylon tactical sling from Sportsmansguide. $12.97
3Volt Lithium tactical light with weapon mount from Tapco. $49.99
Being able to impersonate a SWAT officer on a raid. Priceless
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