Another rookie Bullseye question re: red dots

[Buck13]

I enjoy shooting iron sights, but I suppose if I actually wanted to hit something, a red dot would be better.

I only have one handgun red dot sight so far, a Holosun 507 on one of my Ruger MkIIs. Even on a good day, I struggle just to keep all my shots on paper at 50 yards, so for me, it probably doesn't matter, but my question is how much better typically are groups with a proper tube sight like an Ultradot vs. one of these little "TV screen" dot sights, when fired by someone moderately competent?

Why do tube sights work better?

 

[Slamfire]

I enjoy shooting iron sights, but I suppose if I actually wanted to hit something, a red dot would be better.

I only have one handgun red dot sight so far, a Holosun 507 on one of my Ruger MkIIs. Even on a good day, I struggle just to keep all my shots on paper at 50 yards, so for me, it probably doesn't matter, but my question is how much better typically are groups with a proper tube sight like an Ultradot vs. one of these little "TV screen" dot sights, when fired by someone moderately competent?

Why do tube sights work better?

I asked the good shooters what optical sight to use, and they recommended an Ultra Dot



I have put them on all of my pistols







Now, I earned my Distinguished Rifleman badge with an M1a. It took years of work learning to align iron sights, and one of the things that must be learned is you must center the post in the middle of the aperture. This is ungodly important, along with looking through the sights the exact same way, and having a repeatable, consistent position. Because of this I center the dot in middle of the Ultradot by habit. I have asked the good shooters, and they confirm, yes, dot alignment is critical. The Ultra dot is a one inch tube so the dot is not lost in a wide screen. Yes, you lose field of view, but I believe alignment is better.

When I look at optical sights on the firing line, they are all tubular. One guy shoots a pistol scope, but most others have various models of Ultra Dots.

 

[Soupy44]

If your groups are just on paper with irons, a dot will improve them some, but it will be superficial. There is more information to be seen and understood with irons than a dot. That's why many folks shoot a bit better with a dot, but hit a ceiling in due time.

 

[Soupy44]

As for why tube over TV, I've never heard of one being more accurate. I'm told the dot doesn't get washed out by sun as easily with the tube.

 

[DMW1116]

I've shot the same pistol with both, and I don't know that I shoot better with the red dot (a Holosun w/ 2 MOA dot). I've been using it so long now that I probably would, but I also shoot iron sights with my Blackhawk and get comparable groups, even if not quite as centered. Every load for that one shoots a different POI and I have 3 standard loads. I know my best scores were shot with iron sights, but repeatability may go to the Holosun. My worst scores were also with irons, but that was when I started really working on bullseye shooting a couple of years ago.

When you say "on paper" how big is the paper? I typically shoot at 25 yards, as to shoot 50, I'd have to move to the rifle range. It's just been in the last couple of months I've been able to keep 10 shots inside the black more than once in a blue moon. It's also been in the last six months I mounted the Holosun on my pistol. It's also been in the last 6 months I consistently started dry firing at least 5 days a week. Hard to separate all that out to see which really is making the difference. I'd bet on the dry firing, but who knows.

 

[Soupy44]

A Bullseye target is about 2ft x 2ft.

 

[Laphroaig]

I've been shooting a High Standard Victor recently. The way the sight base was mounted it put the Ultradot way out front. That's a heavy pistol to start out, and it just wasn't balanced right for me. I mounted a smaller reflex sight (TV tube) farther back on the mount, coupled with the fact that the sight is lighter overall, and greatly improved the balance. It took me a couple of weeks to get used to it, but in that case it was better.

But yes, top bullseye shooters all use an Ultradot. But 1911's and 41's can be mounted in a more centered, balanced position.

 

[Soupy44]

Recent thread from the bullseye forum on this:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t21186-paging-docter-noblex