Another Sword Thread

Looks like a Collins and Co. M1840 NCO sword that has lost the wings on either side of the guard?
civil-war-1862-collins-co-nco_1_4d15ba67322dc299a4b0f2fedd3feff8.jpg
Theres an Ames-made example on Ebay right now-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Civil-W...9-d55d-44c2-a3b6-a32bc4786184&redirect=mobile
This one is missing the wings too- either ground off or they produced 2 versions.

I saw a few write ups of the Collins sword claiming that it was well made and pretty rare, with less than 1000 produced.

Awesome sword sir!
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
Looks like a Collins and Co. M1840 NCO sword that has lost the wings on either side of the guard?
Click to expand...
No, it's an M1840 Musician's Sword. These were like the NCO swords, without the counterguards, and slightly shorter (by 4").

The scabbard puzzles me, though. The standard scabbard for these was leather, with a brass throat and drag.

Leather scabbards were also standard for the NCO swords, but all-metal scabbards were issued to senior staff NCO's, such as regimental Sergeant Majors.

On paper, each regiment was allocated two Principal Musicians, who were considered members of the regimental staff. Like the staff NCO's, were these Principal Musicians given metal scabbards as a sign of rank?

ETA: I see now that it is in fact a leather scabbard. The sling rings threw me off, since they're not normally present on the leather scabbards.
 
It's been hanging on my dad's wall for about 30 years. The edge is not sharp at all. Only the point. I put it on a shelf next to the flag I received when I retired. I will keep it safe and pass it down to my son. Yesterday was kind of sad anyhow as my dad signed over the land to me that has been in the family since 1792. And also all his pistols.
 
dh1633pm said:
info
Click to expand...

Is the bit between the guard bow and the blade metal or leather?

If leather, AlenxanderA may be correct.
s-l1600.jpg

If metal Nightlord may be correct and the shells are broken off for some reason.
s-l500.jpg


What's the blade length?
 
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dh1633pm said:
28 inches for the blade.
Click to expand...
According to my reference The American Sword, by Harold Peterson, the blade length of the 1840 musician's sword is 28", whereas that of the NCO sword is 31 3/4".
hso said:
Is the bit between the guard bow and the blade metal or leather?
Click to expand...
That wouldn't have anything to do with it. The counterguard shells (on the NCO sword) were integrally cast as part of the hilt. Quite sturdy and difficult to break off.

No question about it. This is a musician's sword.

And, BTW, being a combat musician was nothing to sneeze at. Drum calls were used to transmit tactical instructions (as were bugle calls in the cavalry). So these were key personnel in the unit. Their additional duties included rendering first aid and tending to the wounded, including stretcher bearing.
 
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dh1633pm said:
It's been hanging on my dad's wall for about 30 years. The edge is not sharp at all. Only the point. I put it on a shelf next to the flag I received when I retired. I will keep it safe and pass it down to my son. Yesterday was kind of sad anyhow as my dad signed over the land to me that has been in the family since 1792. And also all his pistols.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about your father. Thanks for posting the interesting sword. I don't know anything about them, but I do enjoy seeing them.
 
AlexanderA said:
And, BTW, being a combat musician was nothing to sneeze at. Drum calls were used to transmit tactical instructions (as were bugle calls in the cavalry). So these were key personnel in the unit. Their additional duties included rendering first aid and tending to the wounded, including stretcher bearing.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
Being "field music" meant needing to be within earshot of both the field commander and of the troops being commanded. They would often be trooped under the Colors of the unit, which often attracted the attention of the bad guys, by way of shot and shell, if not by bayonet and polearm charges.

Various units might have bands and/or drum & pipe corps attached, but it was the combat maneuver units that had "field music."

Many military band units have "flares" on the shoulders of their uniforms, originally those were protective versus edged weapons as they stood beneath their own Colors. As fashions often do when divorced of their original intent, they change and can become exaggerated, hence:
?u=https%3A%2F%2Frghardiebagpipes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2FV-DGBK-Guards-Doublet.jpg
 
The history of the type is sword is quite interesting and I am certain that the history of this particular sword is enemy more rich and interesting. By chance do you know any of the war-time actions that your ancestor was involved in? It would be incredible to tie this particular piece to a certain battle or unit and trace the action of the owner that way. Not that it matters on an heirloom, but it would also significantly increase the value to know that this sword was present at any key battle or even the smaller skirmishes.
 
He served in at least two battles. Battle of Bull Run and Chancellorsville. Was assigned to Georgetown medical for a bit. He died in 1924. Discharged in 1865. No record that it was his military sword, only that he gave it to my grandfather.

IMG_0042.jpeg

IMG_0062.jpeg
 
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