Antique & Restoration rant

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Tomahawk674

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Hey guys, ever since I finished that Spiller & Burr I've been wanting to expand and try new projects.

I've gotten myself a nickel plating kit and want to try it out on a revolver. Well, there seems to be a large quantity of old cheap revolver from the post civil war period (smaller S&W top breaks in 32, 38, Iver Johnsons, and many more). But every time I mention doing that someone says I'll ruin the gun.

Yeah, I get it, if you find an original Colt Walker, don't reblue the thing. But these guns I'm looking at are worth $50 to $150 on the market. If I'm going to have one of those around, I want it to look good, and I want to use it.
Why would you not restore them?

Compare that mentality to classic car collectors. How many collectors will show you a 57 chevy that's rusted through and doesn't run? none! The world's most expensive car was a Ferrari 250 Testarossa that was FULLY RESTORED, and sold for 8 or 9 million euros; albeit it was restored by the factory.

I'm going to try to refinish one of these old antique revolvers, and I've already done some research about how much to polish, etc. Maybe some of you will like the result.

*end of rant*
 
Not a rant

that's very valid points anyway , even if you think it's ranting , which I didn't think . :)
Who do you live for , us or YOU anyway ? Hysterically correct folks crack me up sometimes , especailly when TELLING me what I should and shouldn't do to my guns without even asking them . :banghead:
I would much prefer to have nice lookin Old guns than a run down beat to heck Old gun . I gots no problem fixin um up to my likin , I aint never sellin any of um anyway :D
If'n I had a 1940's 50's or 60's Smith and Wesson that needed blueing , I wouldn't hesitate blueing it , or nickel plating it .
If guns are never to be sold off by the owner they are only worth what the owner thinks they are anyway . Sometimes restoring finish on a gun is to preserve the gun anyhow . More blueing , less rust potential is my point .
Character is nice on some guns , old ones esepecailly , but that shouldn't always preclude them from upgrades or mods if you so choose to use them , or even just want to look at or shoot prettier guns . You owne them , do what you please .

Das Jaeger
 
With stuff that is common as rocks and goes for such a low price because of that I'd agree with just don't tell them and go ahead and do your thing.

A buddy restored an old motorcycle fender that needed chroming. On the recomendation of the plater he lightly ground out the pits and filled them with the new style non-lead plumbing solder. Being a little harder than the tin-lead stuff it was far easier to blend the shape without under cutting it. This may work with filling any pits you have on your project pistol as well. They also used a flash copper layer before laying on the nickel and then the flash of chrome to promote a better bond between the steel, solder and nickel. The copper also tended to show up any minor spots that were missed during the polishing process. Then each time back the plater stripped off the copper and flashed on a new layer which they studied again for any issues. I think all in all my buddy coppered and corrected about 3 times before he and the plater smiled at each other and nodded together. You may want to look at this as well. I believe the copper was a self layering chemical only process. The nickel was definetly an electro plate deal.

Good luck with your plating and of course we expect pics of the results.
 
Thank you for the tips, I have already ordered something called plum loy that is meant to me used as a pit filler but I haven't tried it yet. I definatly will share the project with you guys.
 
Go for it... it's your gun. And... no, we don't JUST want "after" pix... we want "before, during, and after pix". :evil: Lookin' forward to this one !!
 
I look at it this way:

Certain guns that are really "collectibles" you leave as is and protect them.

An ordinary every day piece that is one of a million out there, if it is in need of restoration, go for it.

I know many folks with the N-SSA that shoot originals. I do myself. Most Collectors frown on this. Many actually are originals that have had new or re-lined barrels put on them for shooting. They re-oil the stocks, clean them up, etc. This is restoration and use of an old collectible.

But LEAVE the REAL COLLECTABLES ALONE.

:):) That being said, why not find a beat up re-enactor revolver for $75-100 and practice on that and leave the originals alone until you've perfected your technique.
 
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Sounds like this could be the start of something "big" on THR Blackpowder Shooting Forum. Please post some photos if you get any of you project, and good luck!:)
 
I've seen some older .22 rifles that needed to be reblued that would really benefit from a nickel finish. They're often available at a cheap price and a new finish could make one look like a unique higher priced stainless model. You wouldn't need to worry much about pitting either, usually just some exterior rust and maybe some stock refinishing
And .22's seem to always be in demand especially due to today's high ammo costs. Don't forget that .22 rimfire was originally a black powder round. :)
 
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If they belong to you,who cares what other people think about it? Even if it is a "real collectable". Don't let ANYONE who will never own or even see your guns(or anything else) tell you what you can or can't do with them. You will have to develop a tough skin though as many don't mind giving unsolicited opinions. Be warned though,if you ASK for opinions just be prepared.
 
I have the electroless nickle plating kit and an old lemon squeezer Smith to try it on.
Click to expand...

If that S&W Safety Hammerless was originally plated, go ahead and plate it again, after first stripping off all of the old plating. If it was blued be careful. They polished off more metal on parts that were intended to be plated. I have seen blued guns that were later nickeled, and some of the parts wouldn't move - and you couldn't get the barrel to tip down even though the latch wasn't assembled to it. :eek:
 
The usual procedure is to reverse the current in a plating bath so that the plating on the gun part is removed until the part is back to an all-steel condition. Then it was lightly or not polished at certain critical fit points. The surfaces that could be seen and weren't fitted to anything were polished as necessery to remove pits, dings, etc. After this was done the revolver was plated again. Remember they were using a process where a layer of copper and then nickel were applied. If you look at an older gun where the plating has pealed you may notice how thick the coating is.

S&W did offer a "change of finish" option where a blued gun could be plated. But they didn't simply take the parts and plate them. Few people know it, but the tolerances and dimensions on screw threads were slightly different between blued and plated screws.

Another gun you don't want to plate is a German Luger.
 
Dan Wesson

I had my 15-2 plated years ago , some parts left blued , some nickel . Hammer, trigger , cylinder catch button and barrel shroud were all in Nickel . I put a staineless cylinder in her at high pollish to match everything .
I sent the gun to the Dan Wessons boys to put together and time for me with the new cylinder . They filed and smoothed up the sear areas on hammer and trigger , AFTER it was plated .
Same can be done with the old guns on parts you don't see .

Das Jaeger
 
This question might need a thread of its own but I'll try...
Can you tell the age of a nickel plating job?
 
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Way right Old Fluff

don't do a Luger !
If'n ya think a Dan Wesson is tight and rightly machined , the Luger is exceptionally machined even closer:what:

My buddy Mick Stevens bought one off a gunshop guy that sold it to him as an Officers Model , hee hee he , no such thing as a Nickel Luger Officers Model . :neener:
Needless to say it jammed every shot , ha ha ha , buyer beware :D

The older guns that were plated were plated much heavier and thicker as you mentioned . As long as you get the old plateing off the gun in question I think you'd be golden . A mild pollishing maybe to frame areas where they join on break open model could be advisable . But I sure would rather take it off after on a blued gun not before than risk a sloppy gun . It should be pretty obvious on whatever gun he plans on doing where metal may need to come off or not come off . Not many of those guns were built that well or tight anyways and certainly nothing liek todays guns are in tollerences .
Possibly retapping new holes and or better screws would be in order also . I have never had a problem putting a screw back in a plated hole though regardless , in any of my modern guns . :D

Das Jaeger
 
The problem with polishing a nickeled gun is that you can't reach all of the internal surfaces, and those are the ones that can give you grief. Reverse plating will remove all of the coper/nickel/ and sometimes chrome, on the parts, and get you back to bare steel.

Screws generally don't give you a problem, but it's interesting that these older Smith & Wesson's were so closely toleranced that they had two standards.

Interestingly, one of our leading Luger authorities actually stated that older Smith & Wesson's were more closely fitted then Luger pistols.

If you are willing to go back to the late 1890's through the late 1930's you can find many places where the fitting done on revolvers was much better that that done today. Then they hand-fitted certain (but not all) parts to each individual gun. This is the reason you'll find the serial number and/or other numbers stamped on various parts to insure they got back on the right frame after being blued, plated or whatever. Today parts are simply assembled, and it is assumed that the tolerances are close enough to make the fit acceptable.

But then, it depends on how you define, "acceptable." :uhoh:
 
Congrats ! I've got an old F&W in .38 Colt. If it's anything like mine... all gunked up inside from not being torn down and cleaned. Mine was a little tricky to get back together (meaning it took a few tries to get the order of assembly right... but, I got it back together and works smoother than it did before.

Seems to be a pretty popular design by more than one maker in that era.

FW38Colt001.jpg

FW38Colt002.jpg

FW38Colt003.jpg
 
Thanks... it was given to me... it was a pair that was owned by an old family friend. I've had it for years, kinda apprehensive of shooting it.

Just pay close attention to the order of how it comes apart and just reverse it. No real "tricks" to it... just an order of assembly (on mine) to pay attention to.

Lookin' forward to seein' your re-do of yours !!
 
I don't know where the term "Rookie" comes from. It's not a name Iver Johnson ever assigned to any of their revolvers. You will most likely find the serial number stamped on the bottom/side of the frame behind the stocks.

You will obviously need to fully disassemble the gun. To do so you will need a set of pin punches with cup points to fit the rounded heads of the pins. These punches can be purchased from Brownells (www.brownells.com) and are listed under Smith & Wesson tools.

You will also find out that they can be a ##&!! to get put back together (which is the reason many gunsmiths won't touch them) but since you aren't paying for the work I don't see where you will suffer any serious losses. Be sure to not get the pins mixed up as to which goes where.

A mainspring should be obtainable at (www.e-gunparts.com) Be sure to specify that you need a flat, not coil mainspring for a large frame.38 Iver Johnson. The only reason it's a large frame is because they didn't make a bigger one... ;)
 
Ratdog68:

All of these various top-break pocket revolvers were inexpensive copies of a very popular Smith & Wesson design, and came about after the S&W patents ran out. Because they were a copy of Smith & Wesson's products, those made in .38 caliber were chambered to use the .38 S&W or .38 Colt New Police cartridges - not the .38 Short Colt, which would probably work but be undersized for the chambers. You need to get your F&W checked out to see what it is really chambered for.

Also it is unquestionably intended to be used with black powder.

To Add: Now I see the cartridges you have are .38 Colt New Police (New Police is in small print) and not .38 Short Colt. Be aware that Remington dropped the .38 Colt New Police during the 1950's because the demand was small, and they were identical to the .38 S&W. That's some very old stuff you have there.
 
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My Correction Old Fluff

I am refering to hand tuned guns, not stadnard production stuff as far as tollerences go . But your right too , some , not many of the older nicer guns were built real well too . :D
My custom Springfield Longslide doesn't get any tighter as far as tollerneces go . :D

Das Jaeger

Congrats on your new gun Tomahawk674 , awsome ! Let the games begin, should be one fun project for ya , and for us to watch you , bonus !

Nice gun Ratface68 , very cool, shoot it , shoot the hell out of it, what are you waitin for ? Do you doubt your good work ? Or just not to put wear on her ?
 
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