Any Advantage to Using Small Primer 45 Auto?

[d'Artagnan]

I ask because I've hundreds of SPEER, BLAZER, and Speer-made (dot) FEDERAL (dot) 45 Auto cases. We endlessly discuss if it matters but I don't recall if anybody found an advantage to using small primer 45 Auto. In my own comparison of BLAZER small primer against (dot) FEDERAL (dot) large primer cases with the appropriate CCI primers, but all else being the same, my reloads showed no discernible difference in accuracy. Unless there is some advantage to using small primer cases, they are going into the recycle bucket.

 

[Slamfire]

I have asked veteran Bullseye shooters, and the answer as it relates to top accuracy, is no. I have been collecting range pick up small primer brass, but I am hesitant about using the stuff. The primary reason is keeping fired cases separate from the large pistol brass. These small primer cases have caused a number of explosions in progressive reloading presses. The reloader was using large pistol primers and a small primer case appeared above the priming mechanism. I heard of a Dillion 650 or 1050 that totally fragmented (no pictures) and this Hornady LNL.



LNL AP Explosion/Fire
http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=244584

Yesterday I switched my powder drop from my old Lee setup to the Hornady powder drop that came with the press. I got the insert so it flares and drops powder at the same time. I got the case flare looking good and dialed the powder drop to 4.7 gr of Titegroup for my .45 ACP rounds. It worked great. Deviation was maybe .05 gr over ten drops. I started loading rounds one at a time, checking the OAL which was 1.26 and very consistant. The last round I loaded I re-sized/deprimed. Next stage inserted primer. Now I don't remember if this felt smooth or was difficult. It may have been a small primer .45 case and I'm using large, or it may not have seated or it may have seated fine. I honestly don't remeber what happened. I indexed to the next stage to drop powder and flare the case when I heard a primer pop and then a loud bang. Then the powder hopper with almost a full pound of powder burst into flames and looked like a rocket engine with two ft of flames coming out the top. I immediately took off to find a fire extinguisher. I tore through all the cabinets and couldn't find it. I filled up a pitcher with water and ran back downstairs. Luckily the powder burned out without catching the ceiling on fire. I dumped water on the powder hopper since it was still on fire. Looking at the carnage I think the primer did not seat into the round and when the slide went back to pick up the next primer it went off blowing the 100 primers stacked on top of it. It blew apart the primer tube and it shot out of the saftey shroud. This was sharp and blowing up, so I guess it punctured the powder hopper and lit all the powder. Loading pistol rounds the hopper is very close to the top of the primer tube.

Lessons learned:

1. Always have a fire extinguisher at your reloading bench.

2. Verify all .45 brass is large primer type. I'm not sure if this was the cause but it could have been. It could have also been a crushed primer. Some brass just sucks and the primers don't seat.

3. Install metal cover around powder hopper on the side closest to the primer tube. This should prevent anything from blowing through the cheesy plastic hopper tube and starting a 2in rocket engine on the top of my reloader.

I sent Hornady an email telling them what happened to see if they replace the parts. If not I will make some calls. All I know is if the primers explode, (which happens) the powder hopper should not be effected. If I was loading rifle cases it would have been up higher and may not have been an issue. I've used this press for two years so I know what I'm doing, I was really shocked that I've never heard of this happening to anyone else. Be careful out there. Here are some pics of the parts and my ceiling.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

You don't have to change your progressive press to large primers.

 

[ReloaderFred]

No advantage or disadvantage in my testing between the two primer sizes.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Hokie_PhD]

The disadvantage is that you have to sort your brass.
The advantage IMHO is that the next time primers get hard to find if you have brass with both types of primers You then the flexibility to use what's available or what you have more of.

 

[joneb]

I have kept small primed 45 acp brass in case I run out of large pistol primers, I haven't had to use it yet.

 

[redbullitt]

I like the smalls just for when primers are scarce. I imagine small rifle primers will work in a pinch too then.

 

[hdwhit]

d'Artangnan wrote:
Any Advantage to Using Small Primer 45 Auto?

SPP brass is generally regarded as less desirable and therefore cheaper.

If everything else you reload uses SPP, then SPP 45 brass gives you commonality.

Beyond that, I don't see any advatage.

 

[hdwhit]

d'Artagnan, wrote:
Unless there is some advantage to using small primer cases, they are going into the recycle bucket.

If you're serious, PM me and we can probably work out a sale of that brass in multiples of 100 rounds at a price above scrap value.

 

[buck460XVR]

It has been shown many times that primer size in .45ACP does not relate to accuracy or reliability. So as has been said, the advantage would be if one prefers one over the other. The disadvantage is that the cases are not always easy to discern for those of us not used to looking. Once you know you need to look at those cases that did not come outta your gun, it's not that big of deal.

 

[Tcruse]

Maybe, we could get every one to only use small primers in .45ACP. That would be the ideal solution to this.

 

[GBExpat]

Any Advantage to Using Small Primer 45 Auto?

Seems to me that their advantage to you is that you own hundreds of them.

I currently only reload .45acp cases with standard primer pockets ... but ... if I owned hundreds with the small primer pockets I certainly would not discard them.

 

[goldpelican]

Maybe, we could get every one to only use small primers in .45ACP. That would be the ideal solution to this.

Yep. Commonality. Dispense with the large primer cases, and use small primers in every pistol case. Then you only have to worry about magnum and non-magnum primers in pistol size.

I'm slowly gathering range pickup 45 as well - I deprime and tumble them, and then sort them into large vs small primer for storage. Eventually I'll end up with a 45 and I'll have both types of brass ready. I think I'd rather the situation though of accidentally attempting to load a small primer into a large pocket (which would be a non-event) than the other way around, which could be a kaboom. So at this time I'm more inclined to accumulate small primer cases, and will likely sell off the large primer cases if they ever reach a sufficient quantity.

 

[2bfree]

During the last primer shortage I found it tough to keep both LPP and SPP, now all I need are SPP, just makes it easier. It also saves a couple minutes when loading on my Dillon not having to change primer size.

 

[Dudedog]

Nothing wrong with SPs in .45 other than having to sort the cases.
I have and use both. Most of my .45 brass is LP but I just save up the SPs until I have enough to load a batch.
I prime off press so changing the primer setup on the press is not an issue for me but for people who prime on press using the SP brass might be an advantage.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've seen no difference in accuracy between the 2. I do see slightly lower velocity out of the SP, 25-30fps. I mainly shoot the LP but keep the SP separate for cases when I'm low or out of LP. If you shoot 9mm or other caliber that use the SP it makes thing simpler on maintaining inventory levels. And you don't have to change your press over if you press prime. If your loading on a AP it's crucial that you keep the brass sorted. They can sure break you work flow when one slips through.

 

[jmorris]

I use SPP cases in my 45 ACP revolvers, I can get lighter trigger pulls with 100% reliable ignition with them over LPP but I generally use GAP brass because it requires no tools to moon/demoon.

 

[hdwhit]

goldpelican wrote:
accidentally attempting to load a small primer into a large pocket (which would be a non-event) than the other way around, which could be a kaboom.

The one time that happened to me all it did was result in a mangled primer that kept me from getting the case out of the priming tool. I ended up having to disassemble the priming tool to get the shell holder out.

 

[HOWARD J]

The advantage is I got them free--hundreds of them & I
don't load progressive anymore
I have the boxes marked large & small-I never take both to the range

 

[entropy]

I use SPP cases in my 45 ACP revolvers, I can get lighter trigger pulls with 100% reliable ignition with them over LPP but I generally use GAP brass because it requires no tools to moon/demoon.

Another reason for me to hang onto the GAP brass I have, and even more incentive to get a .45ACP revolver like I've wanted forever.
As for SP brass, I keep them, and load them up as I get lots of 50. I've noticed no differences in velocity or accuracy.

 

[jmorris]

They are great for lost brass matches...

 

[Sunray]

Lotta stuff is like it is because that's the way it's always been done. Size of pistol primers is one of those.
When Winchester brought 'em out, they were advertised as Non-Toxic only and they said they were not reloadable. What really meant, "We won't be selling NT primers for reloaders." No mention of accuracy at all. Mind you, the size of your primer makes no difference to accuracy anyway.
"...they are going into the recycle bucket..." They're tradin' goods. Somebody always needs/wants .45 brass.

 

[Toprudder]

One advantage of small primer brass is that when you are loading them, if a large primer case somehow finds its way into the mix, it does not bring things to a screeching halt. You simply end up with a case without a primer, and perhaps a little powder spilled from the case. Try stuffing a large primer into a small primer hole, though, and bad things can happen.

I use them all the time. There are a couple of powders that will show a significant difference in velocity (Trailboss and PB) but for the most part, I see about 30fps less velocity with regular small primers. I have found that using small pistol magnum primers come close to the performance of large primers, and I have even used small rifle primers.

The ones that really piss me off, though, are the Win NT and Federal NT headstamps - those are small primer AND have crimped primer pocket.

 

[jmorris]

One advantage of small primer brass is that when you are loading them, if a large primer case somehow finds its way into the mix, it does not bring things to a screeching halt.

This is how I fixed that problem.

 

[someguy2800]

^^^ neat!