Any Fans of the old .38Spl?

[.38 Special]

Just wanted to see if I could get a rise out of anyone.

In regards to pressures and the "good old days", it seems like the "All the old loads were way hotter" misconception is pretty common, and not entirely inaccurate. Back before the manufacturers all had sophisticated pressure testing equipment -- and perhaps before there was a shyster behind every bush -- it wasn't unusual for loads to be a bit warmer than now. Ditto the handloading manuals. And of course in the 20's and 30's folks like Elmer Keith were hot rodding the load into what we now think of as .357 Magnum territory.

More interesting, to me, is reading of folks at the time who felt that the standard pressure .38 was a pretty intimidating round, and that most police officers and armed citizens were better served by something mild -- like a .32-20, for instance. Of course now us lot of he-men sniff at anything less than a .357 Magnum and claim that anyone who can't handle the gentle recoil and pleasant noise of 125 grains at 1500 fps must have lace in his panties.

Physiology, of course, has not changed during the last hundred years, which might explain why there's so much flinching going on at the local range.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Horrible cartridge. Completely useless. I have never bothered with it.

Same here (clearly a joke given his username)

In fact the only revolver I carry concealed is in .38

I do carry +Ps however.

 

[.38 Special]

One of the very neatest things going, as far as I am concerned, is the fact that the old S&W revolvers are some of the finest machines ever made, and nice specimens at affordable prices are available at just about every gun store in the nation. Grandpa's revolver chambered for the boring old .38 Special attracts zero notice from the double-stack tacticool crowd -- which sits just fine with those of us addicted to top quality, wonderfully enjoyable guns.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Horrible cartridge. Completely useless. I have never bothered with it.

I agree, I hate it so much I gave all mine away.

 

[gwalchmai]

In regards to pressures and the "good old days", it seems like the "All the old loads were way hotter" misconception is pretty common, and not entirely inaccurate. Back before the manufacturers all had sophisticated pressure testing equipment -- and perhaps before there was a shyster behind every bush -- it wasn't unusual for loads to be a bit warmer than now. Ditto the handloading manuals. And of course in the 20's and 30's folks like Elmer Keith were hot rodding the load into what we now think of as .357 Magnum territory.

More interesting, to me, is reading of folks at the time who felt that the standard pressure .38 was a pretty intimidating round, and that most police officers and armed citizens were better served by something mild -- like a .32-20, for instance. Of course now us lot of he-men sniff at anything less than a .357 Magnum and claim that anyone who can't handle the gentle recoil and pleasant noise of 125 grains at 1500 fps must have lace in his panties.

Yep, that's what I've seen - .38 SPL was seen as a pretty hot round. That also goes along with the gradual reduction in load data found in manuals.

 

[.38 Special]

Just to be clear, I don't think the typical .38 of old was a +P round. They were often a bit warmer than they are today, and one or two manufacturers were noted for occasionally putting out a real fire-breather, but pressure standards for .38 Special were unchanged from the start. People felt the .38 to be a pretty big-time round, but the benchmark keeps moving. Back when the .45 Colt was the hottest thing going, it was logical for people to view the .38 Special as pretty hard to control. Compared to the 500 S&W, though...

 

[gwalchmai]

Just to be clear, I don't think the typical .38 of old was a +P round. They were often a bit warmer than they are today, and one or two manufacturers were noted for occasionally putting out a real fire-breather, but pressure standards for .38 Special were unchanged from the start. People felt the .38 to be a pretty big-time round, but the benchmark keeps moving. Back when the .45 Colt was the hottest thing going, it was logical for people to view the .38 Special as pretty hard to control. Compared to the 500 S&W, though...

Yeah, that's what I understood you to say. I think handloaders of old did tend to push the limits, sometimes without knowing it.

I don't understand the last part, though. Someone used to shooting 250gr bullets over 40gr of BP is unlikely to consider even a .38SPL +P as hard to control. Except maybe in a J-frame, I guess.

 

[deanadell]

2 old S&W Victory Models
1 S&W Mod 36
3 Ruger Blackhawks in .357
1 Puma Lever action in .357

I shoot and reload thousands of rounds of .38 Spl a year.

Love it. Always have.

 

[wishn4more]

One of my favorites

"Hold On Loosely"? "I Want You Back Where You Belong"?
Great songs!
Oh, sorry! I don't have one, but my wife nearly bought an Airweight at Sportsman's Warehouse the other day. She liked the laser; I was egging her on, but she resisted the peer pressure.
Alas, no .38sp for me to plink with, but I want one.

 

[JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone]

I've always got thousands of .38spl on hand!

Hmm... My SP101 is .357mag, but it's got .38spl's in it, ready for close in support. The wife's got a Colt Cobra handy. I've got two other Colt Cobra snubbies in .38spl. And I just love my Colt Diamonback in .38spl.

I practice with the Diamondback. I introduce new shooters with it and target rounds. Although I love my 1911's in 45acp, the .38spl holds high value in my home.

-Steve

 

[kmrcstintn]

luv it...plain & simple; dad tells stories of how members (including himself) of the U.S. Air Force security police had lower qualification scores when shooting their 1911's in .45 acp & their qualification scores went to expert when the Air Force adopted S&W 15's for security sidearms; dad used it during his civilian and federal contract security jobs throughout his post Air Force retirement career;

after a few years of disillusionment with 1911's & .45 acp myself, I switched to revolvers in .357 mag & shot lots of .38 spl for practice; stashed Winchester's variant of the FBI load for a few years; switched to Remington's variant when .38 spl snubbies entered my life (Remington doesn't alloy their lswchp's as much as Winchester does, so it is softer & suppossed to deform/expand out of shorter barrels more readily);

I can't fully recall all the .38 spl or .357 mag revolvers passed in and out of the collection, but they all got lots of .38 spl through them; I remember last year when one of my hunting buddies got a used Ruger P94 in .40 shortly after he inheritied his gradpa's Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 mag; he's a stout 'large bore' fan, but he can't readily carry a CCW piece by simply putting it in his pocket;

he was less than thrilled when I kept agreeing with him during one of those small gun vs large gun discussions & I pulled my S&W 642 out of my front jeans pocket followed by a Bianchi Speed Strip from one of the rear pockets (I did it to prove that a smaller gun has its place in the realm of what I have; better to have a 5 shot .38 spl snubby on me instead of a large bore handgun at home) we don't get into the 'small bore vs big bore' discussion much anymore except to make sure that I still have my .44 mag revolver so I would be included when we start reloading;

I am hoping to have a Marlin 1894 lever action carbine in .357 mag in the collection within a few months (that will see .38 spl also -- as long as the feeding ramp can handle the sharp shoulders of the MasterCast swc's that I have oodles of); it's a toss up between the Marlin or a Ruger GP100/S&W 686

 

[Erik]

"Any Fans of the old .38Spl?"

Add another to the one or two...

 

[MP3Mogul]

I use them in my .357 Magnum. The .38 +P's are some really good rounds as well!

 

[Slamfire]

I shoot more rounds of 38 Spl, one 158 L 3.5 grains Bullseye at a time, than any other cartridge I own.

The cartridge is accurate, cast bullets reasonable, and I can shoot it well.

The beat up M10-5 was a security guard gun. I bought it at the local gunshop, noting that it had been carried a bunch, scratched a bunch, but shot very little. The action is smooth, and with it I have placed six shots on my 12" gong target, double action, at fifty years. This is the about the only revolver that I can consistently do this.

I also have a bunch of snubbies. If the 38 Spl survives, it will be because it works so well in a concelable small package.

Besides, this vintage Colt needs to be shot once in a while.


M10-5



1937 Detective Special

 

[BigBlock]

More interesting, to me, is reading of folks at the time who felt that the standard pressure .38 was a pretty intimidating round, and that most police officers and armed citizens were better served by something mild -- like a .32-20, for instance. Of course now us lot of he-men sniff at anything less than a .357 Magnum and claim that anyone who can't handle the gentle recoil and pleasant noise of 125 grains at 1500 fps must have lace in his panties.

One important difference to note though, back then criminals had no access to higher power weapons, and people weren't all making meth in their basements. (and they didn't wear ear muffs, LOL)

That doesn't mean the .38 special is weak...but I think a meth head is more likely to take one and keep going. My favorite thing about the .38 special is that I can fire off 6 rounds without instantly going deaf without ear protection....

 

[KarenTOC]

Horrible cartridge. Completely useless. I have never bothered with it.

hahaha... too funny

I'm about to begin learning to shoot my late husband's S&W 10-5 snubby of mid-70s vintage. I've been leading up to it with lots of .22lr practice. I'm looking forward to becoming proficient with the .38 special, and all the posts ahead of this just make me itchy to get started.

Can I ask a question? What does the +P add to noise and recoil? Would it be better for a newbie to start out with <whatever non +P is called> ?

 

[.38 Special]

One important difference to note though, back then criminals had no access to higher power weapons, and people weren't all making meth in their basements.

You're sure right on that one. It was bathtub gin and .45 caliber machine guns. If our modern day cops had to face that with .32 caliber revolvers I think they'd find a different line of work post haste.

 

[.38 Special]

Can I ask a question? What does the +P add to noise and recoil? Would it be better for a newbie to start out with <whatever non +P is called> ?

I'd say +P adds 10-20% to the overall "experience". It's not night and day, but you'll notice it. In your shoes I would look for 148 grain wadcutters. These are very light loads renowned for accuracy and are just the ticket for learning to shoot the .38 Special.

Have fun!

 

[gwalchmai]

If you think about what sound is, it becomes apparent that AOTBTS, the higher the pressure of the gasses leaving the barrel behind the bullet, the higher the noise. .357 is LOUD bothe because it's higher pressure and higher frequency than, say, .45 ACP.

Yes, "regular P" is a bit easier on the ears. Also wear earplugs under "muffs" to make it easier to learn. You can always taper off after your get comfortable with the recoil.

 

[KarenTOC]

Thanks, .38 Special!

 

[JWM]

.38 spl

Did someone mention .38 specials ? I've got two S&W model 36's, one model 60, a 686, and a Wessinger custom PPC revolver in .38 SPL. The only autoloader I got is the H&K P2000 in .40 cal. Uncle Sam owns that one.

 

[Jkwas]

Put me down for .38spl. It's my favorite round.

 

[oneounceload]

much more forgiving when you're reloading, and you can load and shoot shotshells, light lead loads to full power butt-thumpers, all in the same cylinder......what's not to love?

 

[PzGren]

In my revolvers I use maybe 80% of .38 Special reloads, the rest is .357, .45 ACP, and .44 Magnums.

Maybe the remaining 20% of .357 and .44 Mag are still more than what the average shooter dispenses but, yokes aside, I love the .38 Special.

 

[Average Joe]

I have 2 revolvers in .38spl. whats not to like ?