Any M1 Carbine Experts?

[bassjam]

I've always thought the M1 Carbines were cool little guns, and after discovering my FIL had one he was getting rid of I tried to buy it off him. He ended up giving it to me instead, lucky me!

I'm curious what you guys might be able to tell me as far as what might be original or what might have been changed. I know it's a Saginaw build, and I think the serial number puts it at 42/43ish, but that's as much as I know.

I put a little over 100 rounds through it Friday, it seemed to run well. One of the 30 round mags doesn't run well, and I found a few bad primers in the surplus ammo I had, but other than that it shot pretty well.

 

[bassjam]

Couple more pics.

 

[Speedo66]

I'm certainly no expert, but know a little from researching mine. During the war, the gov't. contracted out work to a lot of manufacturers. I see the recoil block is Rock-ola who made jukeboxes, Saginaw was a GM subsidiary who made auto parts. There's info out there as to who made what, and who they sold to.

Who was your barrel made by, should be near the muzzle? Are there any import marks on the barrel? Not having them will increase the value.

It's got an early production rear sight, and although it's hard to tell from the photos, looks like an early safety, too.

You're not far from AIM Surplus, they have inexpensive yet excellent 15 and 30 round Korean magazines for your carbine. Also good prices on carbine ammo.

Good luck and have fun with it!

 

[kBob]

EEEEEEKKKK!
Stop! Step away from the un modified GI WWII Issue M1 Carbine with flip sights, type II band and push through safety!

If you had paid a Grand for that you would have gotten a steal of a deal.

30 rounders should not work well in that gun.....it was not meant to use them as it was never modified with a new mag release with the third side lug to hold a 30 properly. Stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole as it were and just use 15 rounders!

I am a mere affectionato and not an expert so I can hardly wait to see what "THEY" think myself

-kBob

 

[kBob]

I just noticed that you also have WWII stripper clips with the attached spoons. Those are getting hard to find as well. What is the head stamp on the ammo you are shooting up?

If you have the gun apart sometime how about using some of your excellent photo skills to take pictures of the gun without the stock?

Check out the Juke Box part in the one photo "Rockola" on the stock lug.

Looks like the stock is an M1 stock rather than the potbelly M2 stock the reworks are frequently found with as well, and look a four rivet handguard.

-kBob

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

M

I just noticed that you also have WWII stripper clips with the attached spoons. Those are getting hard to find as well. What is the head stamp on the ammo you are shooting up?

If you have the gun apart sometime how about using some of your excellent photo skills to take pictures of the gun without the stock?

Check out the Juke Box part in the one photo "Rockola" on the stock lug.

Looks like the stock is an M1 stock rather than the potbelly M2 stock the reworks are frequently found with as well, and look a four rivet handguard.

-kBob

Not a potbelly, but there does look to be a selector switch cutout in the 5th pic down. Looks like some early parts, some later.

Nice gun. Recommend replacing the recoil spring and checking the piston nut if you intend to shoot it regularly. Have fun!

 

[bassjam]

I'm certainly no expert, but know a little from researching mine. During the war, the gov't. contracted out work to a lot of manufacturers. I see the recoil block is Rock-ola who made jukeboxes, Saginaw was a GM subsidiary who made auto parts. There's info out there as to who made what, and who they sold to.

Who was your barrel made by, should be near the muzzle? Are there any import marks on the barrel? Not having them will increase the value.

It's got an early production rear sight, and although it's hard to tell from the photos, looks like an early safety, too.

You're not far from AIM Surplus, they have inexpensive yet excellent 15 and 30 round Korean magazines for your carbine. Also good prices on carbine ammo.

Good luck and have fun with it!

Barrel is also made by Sagina Div. I didn't notice any import marks but I'll look closer for them.

Thanks for the tip on the magazines, I do want to pick up more of the original straight mags for it, as well as some ammo. I don't know that I'll shoot this a lot, but my 10 year old is ready to step up from her .22 and doesn't like the noise of an AR I think using her pappy's M1 Carbine might be the perfect centerfire semi-auto for her to step up to.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Somewhere along the way the Saginaw Steering gear barreled action was dropped into the Rock-Ola stock. Maybe the Saginaw stock was damaged, or maybe they were simply mismatched by someone who was cleaning up a batch of carbines who simply wasn't worried about it.
Both WW2 production by the looks of it.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Not an expert.

I like them and I am digging your pics. Great job

ETA:

 

[Tommygunn]

You have a nice carbine, much like my Inland that my father brought back from Korea.
Others have said much. I'll only add that if you want to use the 30 rnd mags, I highly recommend getting the M2 style mag catch an earlier poster mentioned. It is easy to change this out. Keep the original!!!! DO NOT THROW IT AWAY!!!!
The extra finger on the M2 catch will help support the heavier mag. It was designed for a reason and if you use a lot of 30 rnd mags for shooting you will eventually find out. If you use a cheap commercial aftermarket one you'll find out faster.

BTW, Korean mags marked KCI seem to be amongst the best of the repro mags out there, especially for 30 rnders.
If you EVER see a 40 rnd carbine mag ---- RUN AWAY!!!! RUN FAR FAR AWAY!!!!! IT'S A TRAP!!! (Really, they STINK!!!!!)

 

[AK103K]

I just really got into them, this past year. One quickly turned into five, three Inlands and two Winchesters.

Ive been doing a lot of research on mine, and trying to figure out just what I got. Its been an educational adventure.

Your gun appears to be in pretty good shape and one that hasnt been arsenal updated. If it were, it would have a bayonet lug, and adjustable rear sight, a lever safety, instead of the pushbutton, and maybe, maybe not, the upgraded mag release that locks the 30 rounders in.

From what Ive seen, an early gun like yours, that hasnt been upgraded, tends to bring a premium, as does the maker.

The stock looks to be one of the early stocks, and not one of the later "pot belly's". I prefer the early stocks ( I have 2), as they just feel better in the hand to me.

They usually clean up nice with just a couple of coats of linseed oil, which is also the correct thing to use on them. Dont sand or steel wool them, etc.

Even when running well, they arent the most reliable. All of mine needed work when I first got them. Lots of stoppages and feeding malfunctions.

The two things Ive found that brings them up to 95% + has been, rebuilding the bolts, a new recoil spring, and new, Korean 15 round mags. I still get the occasional feeding malfunction here and there with all of them though.

I got a number of USGI mags with the guns when I bought them. Most of them are part of the reliability problem. The Korean mags I picked up later are a lot better. I think the GI mags are just old and worn out. From what Ive been reading, they were always the weak point with these rifles anyway, and usually replaced when they were getting resupplied with ammo.

I also have a couple of the Korean 30 rounders, and they seem to work OK too. I prefer the 15 rounders more myself though.

Numrich/Gun Parts has everything you might need for parts, and at fairly reasonable prices. They also have the basic tools youll need if you decide to do the bolts. The gas piston wrench is something youll likely want too, especially if it wasnt staked, or someone broke the staking in the past. All but one of mine were loose. I actually prefer them that way anyway, as it makes cleaning them easier. I just put a small drop of LocTite on the nut when I put it back together.


Lots of info here......

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/manufacturers.html

M1 Carbine - Civilian Marksmanship Program

The CMP has a lot of good info if youre going to shoot them. Lots of links there with lots of good tips and info.

The first link above has a lot of info from the research standpoint. Lots of info on makers, markings, both metal and wood, etc.

If you search "M1 Carbine in Google, you will get a lot of hits too. The two above were a lot of help to me though.

You Tube is also a great place to look for how to do things, if you plan on changing out parts, etc. I found it to be a big help.

Good luck! I think youre really going to get hooked on them.

Oh, and this is what happens if you leave two in the same room for 30 seconds

 

[Old Stumpy]

It's interesting how the M1 carbine seems to enjoy resurging popularity for a while and then disappear for a while.
Post Korean war they were popluar 1950s plinkers for a while.
Then, in the 1960s from what I read, interest was limited.
But when I first got into guns back in the early 1970s, they seemed to be gaining in popularity again.
Companies like Plainfield and Universal were cranking out new M1 carbines because the originals were not all that available.
The new versions sold well.
The Plainfield used some original surplus parts along with an investment cast steel receiver and a zinc-aluminum alloy lower receiver, and was fitted with a birch stock. They had full parts interchangeabilty with original GI carbines and they were quite reliable.
An interesting thing about them was that Plainfield had been making them earlier for U.S. issue to some South Vietnamese troops because the GI versions had become popular. These soldiers being of small stature really liked them. The one I owned had an M2 style stock and operating rod which was cut for the full-auto selector lever.
Presumably the Vietnamese ones were all M2 versions complete with the M2 selector lever and sear.
Later, in the 1980s and 90s they were being made by Iver Johnson.
Then, by 2000 they seemed to die out again.
I don't recall much interest in them after that until the last few years or so, and now they seem to be popular again.
Sort of the ukulele of the gun world.

 

[fpgt72]

It is a model that missed a rebuild here or there somewhere. Like the other poster said, the missing barrel band, and the flip up sight are dead give-a-ways. Most all came back for the "better" sight and the new front band.

You are going to find a great deal of mis-information....and a great deal of it can come from "gun people". I had an older guy that has forgot more then I will ever know tell me that as it is missing the bayonet lug it is a commercial model.....sometimes you fight these battles sometimes you don't.

You have a real nice example.....only issue I would take is the comment on the 30's not working....I have one in about the same shape and it eats 30's just fine. Old mag, could be the spring.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Oh, and this is what happens if you leave two in the same room for 30 seconds

Then my two are clearly defective, They have lived in the same safe since the 90s and I haven't even gotten a 1911 out of them, much less another carbine or garand. One came from Roses for 99 bucks, the other from my grandpa, is a Winchester.

They are fascinating to me for many reasons. From the parts interchangeability (even though some look completely different) to the fact that they were so popular even though they were basically an over weight pistol. My grandpa carried one part of the time in ww2, along with part of a watercooled rifle, from what I was told. My Winchester shoots great and is accurate. My inland won't hold an inch at 50 yards regardless of ammo. And just to make people say, if I could go back....

 

[Pat Riot]

If your bolt is a Saginaw be advised those bolts had a problem with their lugs breaking off. I know, I had 2 of them break. If it is a Saginaw I would recommend removing it and replacing it with another bolt manufactured in the same configuration by one of the other Carbine makers. KEEP the Saginaw bolt!

When my first bolt broke I replaced the recoil spring thinking that was the problem. It wasn’t. A guy I knew that seemed to know all things M1 Carbine told me the Saginaw bolts had issues with breaking lugs.

Now, to be fair I put thousands of rounds through my carbines so that played a part as well.

I sold my M1 Carbines years ago. Right before Clinton banned their sale after lend / lease. Murphy sucks.

 

[bassjam]

I just noticed that you also have WWII stripper clips with the attached spoons. Those are getting hard to find as well. What is the head stamp on the ammo you are shooting up?

I found 8 different head stamps in the ammo I was shooting. All of it was just in a ziplock bag I got from my FIL so I don't know much about it. I had 4-5 that failed to fire even after reloading them a second time, but I didn't bother to notice which head stamp those had. For all I know some of these could be reloads, a lot of the projectiles appeared remarkably bright and shiny, while others were much more dull.

 

[Tommygunn]

It is a model that missed a rebuild here or there somewhere. Like the other poster said, the missing barrel band, and the flip up sight are dead give-a-ways. Most all came back for the "better" sight and the new front band.

You are going to find a great deal of mis-information....and a great deal of it can come from "gun people". I had an older guy that has forgot more then I will ever know tell me that as it is missing the bayonet lug it is a commercial model.....sometimes you fight these battles sometimes you don't.

You have a real nice example.....only issue I would take is the comment on the 30's not working....I have one in about the same shape and it eats 30's just fine. Old mag, could be the spring.

An old mag, yes, likely a bad spring.
The 30 rnders did have a bad rep, and I have a theory about it; they were developed to increase the firepower of the select fire M2 model, and involved a compromise. The upper part had to be straight, since the carbine's magwell was, only the extended part is curved, due to the actual shape of the cartridge.
In full auto, this compromise could sometimes be problematic. But in semiauto, the design is much more forgiving, so long as the magazine is in good shape. Plus, I think that M2 type catch is very helpful!
I have fired a lot through my carbine in those 30 rnders and all troublefree, so I think our experiences are very similar.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Nice rifle. Looks like it missed the armory rebuild where so many ended up. That's a huge plus as far as value is concerned. That rifle is worth considerably more than 1K as was suggested. That's about the average price for the armory rebuild frankengun.

If it isn't a great shooter don't worry, they were regulated to be 4 MOA or less to pass QC. Many of these rifles have worn out barrels and shoot poorly.

I only have one ( 43 Inland with a Winchester barrel ) that I load for and shoot a few times a year. It's more fun for me to watch people shoot it. Most have never shot one and are usually eager to get the experience. A relative of mine is a writer and a WW2 buff. He was all smiles after he shot mine.

Great historical connection if nothing more.

 

[bassjam]

Nice rifle. Looks like it missed the armory rebuild where so many ended up. That's a huge plus as far as value is concerned. That rifle is worth considerably more than 1K as was suggested. That's about the average price for the armory rebuild frankengun.

If it isn't a great shooter don't worry, they were regulated to be 4 MOA or less to pass QC. Many of these rifles have worn out barrels and shoot poorly.

I only have one ( 43 Inland with a Winchester barrel ) that I load for and shoot a few times a year. It's more fun for me to watch people shoot it. Most have never shot one and are usually eager to get the experience. A relative of mine is a writer and a WW2 buff. He was all smiles after he shot mine.

Great historical connection if nothing more.

I didn't realize I had such an untouched unicorn! I figured it was worth $800ish. My FIL said it was worth about that much when he handed it to me. Honestly it doesn't matter but it's nice to know, this is something one of my kids will end up with one day.

I'll have to check later how well it shoots. Using the surplus ammo of mixed makes and lots and shooting fairly quickly, I was getting around 2" groups at 25 yards the other day but I certainly wasn't trying to make precise shots. I was just seeing if it shot to begin with!

 

[Old Stumpy]

It is a model that missed a rebuild here or there somewhere. Like the other poster said, the missing barrel band, and the flip up sight are dead give-a-ways. Most all came back for the "better" sight and the new front band.

Not all of them apparently. I owned two surplus ones back around the 90s that had come back from somewhere overseas. Both had the skinny stock, flip sight, flat bolt, and the original no-bayonet-lug barrel band. These particular specimens were pretty cheap to buy at the time.

 

[FL-NC]

You did very well on that deal. Not an expert, but I recognize the original flip sight and no bayonet lug.

 

[Old Stumpy]

You did very well on that deal. Not an expert, but I recognize the original flip sight and no bayonet lug.

I'm no expert either. It's just that prices today are very much higher for surplus guns than they were decades ago. After WW2 they were almost giving the stuff away, then with each successive generation, the prices rose. Supply and demand.

 

[mushu]

nice carbine!!!

 

[fpgt72]

They are such fun little rifles....light, handy, no harsh recoil....power on par with a 357....if it was not for the cost of them they would make a great step up from a 22 for many shooters. Plus they really have the appeal of not being all stupid and tacticool looking like 90% of the modern pistol carbines....just flat fun to shoot.

 

[lightman]

I'm not an expert but I know enough about them to recognize that you have a nice one! They are a fun gun to shoot. Back when I competed in high power competition I would cast bullets for mine and practice in our indoor range during the off season. I used the Lyman 130 grain bullet.

My Dad carried a M-2 in Korea and liked it enough that he deer hunted with a M-1.