Agreed, however 30-SC has the same recoil as 9mm according to Paul Harrell and Im pretty sure his word can be trusted.Not every new cartridge or caliber has to compete with 9mm in terms of potential popularity or equal or exceed the performance of 9mm. A new caliber isn't always going to be the right choice for everyone, but that doesn't mean it won't be the right choice for no one.
I'm in the same boat and having plenty of experience with thick doublestacks and not being all that impressed with the P365 style pistols, if someone made a dedicated .30 Super single stack, I'd buy it because it would be slimmer than a single stack 9mm, but hold an extra round, maybe two.It seems like the goal of 30 SC was to meet similar ballistics to 9mm but be able to fit 2 more rounds in roughly the same space. I live in a state that limits capacity to 10 rounds anyway. If there was a 30 SC pocket pistol out there that increased the capacity over 9mm from 6 to 8 rounds, I'd buy it, but I don't see a pistol out there like that.
I think a compelling cartridge would be a cartridge that produces about as much muzzle energy as 380+P (between 290 - 300 ft-lbs) or has roughly the same felt recoil as 380+P but fires a bullet that penetrates deeper that 380 hollow points. I think there has to be a sectional-density sweet spot between 290 - 300 ft-lbs that yields better terminal ba;;istics han 380 ACP. In a locked-breach configuration, it would allow for a 10 ounce 5" x 4" pistol that is not punishing to shoot and performs better that current 389 cartridges.
9mm has a bit more velocity but is a bit heavier so overall, the range should be pretty much identical.I would like to see what people are hot rodding it out to.. It seems like it should have the case volume.
Other than that its just not available in enough platforms for me to be interested in it. See 5.7, GAP, TCM, etc.
IDK, I think a slimmer single stack that holds more than a 9mm does has some benefit, namely being a lighter, easier to carry, yet accurate shooting pistol that holds more.Agreed, however 30-SC has the same recoil as 9mm according to Paul Harrell and Im pretty sure his word can be trusted.
So a firearm in 9mm that is "correct" for someone is just as correct as 30-SC is. Because to shoot, they are pretty much exactly the same.
I also updated my previous reply to include some interesting math that further explains my reasoning.
Again, 30-SC is interesting, its certainly a decent concept and I understand why people would think its good. Its only once you dive into the details that you realize it offers no real benefit overall vs 9mm while also having much more expensive ammunition.
Well that pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is and why its so popular. Its barely 1" wide, yet offers a 12-shot 9mm magazine because its 1.5 stack, not single or double stack. It also weighs barely 20 ounces even. Its tiny, the standard 3.1" barrel version is pocket-able in mens jeans for the most part.IDK, I think a slimmer single stack that holds more than a 9mm does has some benefit, namely being a lighter, easier to carry, yet accurate shooting pistol that holds more.
Ok Sig fanboy, what I described to you was a pistol dedicated to .30 Super, which means it's on a frame and uses a slide that is thinner than any 9mm pistol has ever been. The P365 is 1 inch thick, the Ruger LC9 was .9" thick, the .30 Super I'm thinking of would be .8 or .85" thick and hold more than what the LC9 does.Well that pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is and why its so popular. Its barely 1" wide, yet offers a 12-shot 9mm magazine because its 1.5 stack, not single or double stack.
Its also renown nationwide as one of the most accurate sub-compact/micro-compact handguns available on the market today.
Sig basically took the concept of a single stack 9mm and added more capacity and made it just barely large enough to feel comfortable and "shooter-friendly" in the hands of the average adult. This combination of features, capacity, accuracy, and small footprint are why it has become the best selling handgun for concealed carry in the United States, and why companies like S&W and Springfield soon copied the design with the Shield-Plus and Hellcat series very shortly afterwards.
Here is a review of my personal favorite version - the P365XL. I prefer the XL because you move up from a 3.1 to a 3.7" barrel, and the grip is slightly extended so now the natural flush-fitting magazine now gives you room for all 3 fingers, plus a slightly flared integrated mag well for faster reloads, all while still remaining a tiny, single-stack sized micro-compact:
Sig Sauer P365 XL First Shots & Impressions
The first rounds out of the new P365 xl, the bigger brother of the very popular P365 from Sig Sauer.Here is a link to donate to a local shelter in Ames Iowa ...youtu.be
When the .30 SC was announced it was agreed near universally that the reason why it wasn't more properly called a .32 anything is because the consumer in the US, both the informed and low information types who make up the majority of the consumer, views .32 anything as small, weak, underpowered, and expensive because every gun shop employee has like this automatic reaction to .32 always costing "a buck a round!" and that's because they never buy the ammo in the quantity necessary to get bulk discount pricing.I've shot the S&W Shield EZ in both 9mm and 30 SC. The latter has less felt recoil, and lower muzzle rise. (I like Paul Harrell but frankly I don't think he notices recoil in any gun). I rather like the 30 SC and bought one. My daughter prefers hammer fired guns with safeties, her favorite is a Remington R1 1911. After shooting the EZ in .30 Super Carry with thumb safety, she appreciated the lighter handier pistol. So I had to buy another one for myself, without a thumb safety.
30 SC is not setting any sales records, but when the average customer looks at $15/box 9mm ammo and $30/box /30 SC ammo, there's no surprise why. The original "30 Super Carry" sales hype was particularly stupid, and Vista Outdoor being the arrogant near-monopoly they are, figured marketing BS would allow them to sell ammo at their regular high prices. Didn't quite work out the way they planned.
I think this cartridge and guns are better considered as .32 Magnum Automatic - that would have been a more accurate and better-sounding name than the ridiculous ad-biz misnomer .30 Super Carry. In that light, it's best compared as sort of a modern magnumized replacement of the Colt 1903 .32 Rimless Smokeless. I wish the EZ was thinner, but S&W is not John Moses Browning, and everything is over-sized these days.
I don't see the logic of the 115 grain JHP bullet in 30 SC, it just increases the recoil, and the 100 grain JHP bullet penetrates just fine in .32. If you want a 115 grain JHP bullet, get a 9mm to begin with.
View attachment 1195434
The .32 Automatic loads above are handloads; but don't use them in the crack-o-matic Beretta Tomcat. The .30 (.32) Super Carry is a considerable step up in energy and expansion, although penetration is the same as it's little grandson. Note that the .30 SC Remington 100 grain JHP has the same performance as the Federal 100 grain HST load - at half the price.
Haters always gonna hate. Hopefully they don't hate the badly named 30 SC out of existence...
Actually not a Sig fanboy, Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind, those are actual facts, you can look them up. The P365, Shield-Plus, and Hellcat are so much smaller than standard 9mm traditional compacts like mine that the carry more like a 380 Auto, thats just the way it is. Like it or not, these manufacturers have pulled that off.Ok Sig fanboy, what I described to you was a pistol dedicated to .30 Super, which means it's on a frame and uses a slide that is thinner than any 9mm pistol has ever been. The P365 is 1 inch thick, the Ruger LC9 was .9" thick, the .30 Super I'm thinking of would be .8 or .85" thick and hold more than what the LC9 does.
A pistol that's 20% thinner than the P365 isn't "pretty much what the Sig P365 Series is" it's a very different pistol to the extent that even the magazines will be very thin and also easier to carry and conceal.
The recoil comparison has been said by more than just Paul, he said himself that he "concurs" with what other people have told him about the recoil.I've shot the S&W Shield EZ in both 9mm and 30 SC. The latter has less felt recoil, and lower muzzle rise. (I like Paul Harrell but frankly I don't think he notices recoil in any gun). I rather like the 30 SC and bought one. My daughter prefers hammer fired guns with safeties, her favorite is a Remington R1 1911. After shooting the EZ in .30 Super Carry with thumb safety, she appreciated the lighter handier pistol. So I had to buy another one for myself . I particularly dislike "ambi" safeties - which are solely for lefties - and this one is similarly annoying, so I bought one without a thumb safety.
30 SC is not setting any sales records, but when the average customer looks at $15/box 9mm ammo and $30/box /30 SC ammo, there's no surprise why. The original "30 Super Carry" sales hype was particularly stupid, and Vista Outdoor being the arrogant near-monopoly they are, figured marketing BS would allow them to sell ammo at their regular high prices. Didn't quite work out the way they planned.
I think this cartridge and guns are better considered as .32 Magnum Automatic - that would have been a more accurate and better-sounding name than the ridiculous ad-biz misnomer .30 Super Carry. In that light, it's best compared as sort of a modern magnumized replacement of the Colt 1903 .32 Rimless Smokeless. I wish the EZ was thinner, but S&W is not John Moses Browning, and everything is over-sized these days.
I don't see the logic of the 115 grain JHP bullet in 30 SC, it just increases the recoil, and the 100 grain JHP bullet penetrates just fine in .32. If you want a 115 grain JHP bullet, get a 9mm to begin with.
View attachment 1195434
The .32 Automatic loads above are handloads; but don't use them in the crack-o-matic Beretta Tomcat. The .30 (.32) Super Carry is a considerable step up in energy and expansion, although penetration is the same as it's little grandson. Note that the .30 SC Remington 100 grain JHP has the same performance as the Federal 100 grain HST load - at half the price.
Haters always gonna hate. Hopefully they don't hate the badly named 30 SC out of existence...
Except in the fertile minds of gun writing shills, I never heard any such "universal agreement" about the .32 calibre. I suppose those same folks never heard of the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal Magnum. Most modern "gunsumers" don't even know what a .32 calibre is, nor a wadcutter bullet, nor have ever fired a revolver. If it's not .223, 9mm or 6.5 Creemor, they never heard of it. Sorry, but calling a .32 a ".30" is just more disingenuous stupidity from the usual suspects.When the .30 SC was announced it was agreed near universally that the reason why it wasn't more properly called a .32 anything is because the consumer in the US, both the informed and low information types who make up the majority of the consumer, views .32 anything as small, weak, underpowered, and expensive because every gun shop employee has like this automatic reaction to .32 always costing "a buck a round!" and that's because they never buy the ammo in the quantity necessary to get bulk discount pricing.
I use to get .32 ammo online for under 40 cents/rd just 5 years ago. 40 cents is hardly close to a buck a round, but I guess compared to 9mm it may as well be to some people...
I agree with you on the 100gr loads, there's no reason to go up to 115 .30 SC when the 100gr works as well as it does and has the advantage of being lower in recoil.
85gr in a .32 Auto is a bit heavy for the caliber. I don't think I've ever even seen published data for that load.
So what did you think when you shot them side by side?The recoil comparison has been said by more than just Paul, he said himself that he "concurs" with what other people have told him about the recoil.
You may feel differently about it and thats fair, but remember that placebo effect is a very real thing.
Oh I haven't shot 30-SC myself, Im just the messanger. Nobody I know in my area even owns a 30-SC. Pretty sure most of my range buddies have never even heard of the cartridge yet.So what did you think when you shot them side by side?
Opinions vary, but someone wants to dislike something, that hate effect is very real thing.
I have two questions for you:Actually not a Sig fanboy, Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind, those are actual facts, you can look them up. The P365, Shield-Plus, and Hellcat are so much smaller than standard 9mm traditional compacts like mine that the carry more like a 380 Auto, thats just the way it is. Like it or not, these manufacturers have pulled that off.
I currently carry a Walther PDP Compact 4" which is a traditional double-stack like a Glock 19. While I prefer the feeling of a Walther in my hands, Im considering swapping to the P365XL because of the size difference. Printing, comfort, and weight are certainly a bit concerning with my PDP. Unfortunately I couldn't find an XL that I could try out but I was able to rent the original P365 3.1" at the range the other day, and it was pretty good.
I immediately noticed why people love the small footprint of the P365. Its quite literally about HALF the size of my PDP. 20% less size? Ya no, its definitely way smaller than that. I believe its about on par with a Glock 43 but slightly heavier, like maybe 1-2 ounces. Glock 43 has a linger barrel but is an old school single stack with only 6 rounds capacity with flush mags.
I encourage you to go try one before you talk trash on it. Theres a very good reason why it quickly became the best selling handgun for concealed carry when it was released in 2018. I didn't realize just how good it was until I tried one either.
For those of you in mag capacity restricted states, sig even offers a pinky rest mag in the original 3.1" P365 that still only has a 10-round capacity, and of course offers the same for the XL.
1.) Of course I do, a tiny single stack classic like the Glock 43. Whats its capacity? I think like 6 or 7 rounds right? See thats what made the 1.5 stack design special when Sig invented it with the P365. Basically the same footprint as the LC9, but you get 10 or 12 rounds depending on if you want a pinky rest or not. The P365 is literally the same size, just like an ounce or two heavier for the extra capacity.I have two questions for you:
1. Do you know what a Ruger LC9 is?
2. Do you or have you ever played Call of Duty?
LC9 is 7 rds w/ flush fit, 9 w/ extended and your comparison to the G43 is inaccurate, the LC9 was thinner and my point is you take that and do a dedicated .30 SC that makes it even thinner and the capacity is upped to 8 rds, maybe 9 w/ a flush fit mag and a definite 10 with an extended mag you're getting a vastly different pistol with a decent capacity that carries better than the 365 and similar pistols and given the slimness might even help female shooters or those with small hands shoot better.1.) Of course I do, a tiny single stack classic like the Glock 43. Whats its capacity? I think like 6 or 7 rounds right? See thats what made the 1.5 stack design special when Sig invented it with the P365. Basically the same footprint as the LC9, but you get 10 or 12 rounds depending on if you want a pinky rest or not. The P365 is literally the same size, just like an ounce or two heavier for the extra capacity.
tl;dr2.) Of course I have, though not in a long time. I grew up playing it with friends sure. As I got older and started getting into PC building and RC cars I got bored of the same old CoD. By the time I was 18 me and friends had been playing the same game for what, essentially 10 years? I honestly can't believe we didn't get bored of it earlier lol. Its literally the same thing every year with some updated graphics and maybe 2 or 3 new guns. Wooo, so much fun lol. Now days I might jump on my old Black Ops 3 thats still installed on Steam maybe once every 6 months or so just to gun down some zombies. Its the only thing I even enjoy in CoD anymore - good ol' classic Nazi Zombies mode.
As I got older, bought my first gun in real life, started building my own PCs and building hobby-grade RCs and started playing video games less and less, I started choosing more unique, mind-challenging, and nerdy video games. Ever heard of Kerbal Space Program? Actual realistic physics and space flight simulation, you have to actually calculate your trajectories and burning of fuel. Highly recommended, so satisfying after you peak the learning curve.
As for the other hobby, also highly recommended, great community surrounded by wonderful and friendly people. These are not your typical Walmart RC cars. These things can do highway speeds, based on the same battery and motor technology as Tesla Automobiles. They have adjustable oil-filled suspension and differentials, and modern electronics have gyros and accelerometers that can offer active control assistance like your real car. Check this out, I actually own this same exact model, although this guy pushes his to the very limits for the YouTube views. Shows what they can do though. Those aircraft-grade 7075 aluminum parts make a big difference:
"SILVER BULLETS" ARRMA Kraton EXB 6s 9mm M2C towers...
Another full beefcake option for the already tough ARRMA EXB platform. Here's some hardcore testing of the new M2C Racing EXB Kraton 6s towers. Both front an...youtu.be
So what, you are just another fool who blindly assumes I have no idea what Im talking about? Is that what this is? Sorry to burst your bubble but Im no "young punk". Yes I have shot plenty of guns, but not tons either. Plenty of 9mm, 380, 40S&W, 45ACP, 556, 762, 308, 12GA and 410GA. So Im well versed in the typical cartridges, unfortunately haven't owned many of them myself thanks to other hobbies that are obviously expensive
RC cars are $1000-$2000 each once you put a few upgrades into them and the batteries don't last forever and need to be replaced every few years and are about $100 each themselves, and also you need to maintain the vehicles as well.
But thats alright, I just use my buddies AKs and ARs. They don't mind in fact they encourage me to join them as often as possible. Funny how having friends changes things, doesn't it?
Honestly considering a 9mm or 10mm PCC and 6.5G SBR for myself, maybe another 22LR plinker. They are fun and cheap so why the hell not. IDK, my buddy Timmy served in the Marines so Im probably gonna run my ideas by him first just to see what he thinks. Oh and of course thinking about swapping my CCW but point is Ive never owned more than 5 firearms at a time myself, but I have shot plenty.
It was of some interest to me but then I thought about my 45 super and that killed the interest, it reminds me to much of 45 super great cartridge big performance but basically no interest and it will chamber in a 45 auto which could be disastrous. I just feel the 30 super carry will go the way of the 45 super not enough guns chambered in it and just not enough interest in it especially since it has to compete with the 9mm just like the 327 magnum has to compete with the 9mm and look where it is.Any opinions on the .30 Super cartridge?
Came across an ad for a S&W M&P in .30 Super Carry that's about half the price of M&Ps chambered in larger rounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Super_Carry
LC9 is 7 rds w/ flush fit, 9 w/ extended and your comparison to the G43 is inaccurate, the LC9 was thinner and my point is you take that and do a dedicated .30 SC that makes it even thinner and the capacity is upped to 8 rds, maybe 9 w/ a flush fit mag and a definite 10 with an extended mag you're getting a vastly different pistol with a decent capacity that carries better than the 365 and similar pistols and given the slimness might even help female shooters or those with small hands shoot better.
But, go ahead, write that off because the 365 is the best thing since sliced bread.
tl;dr
Firstly, your data on the LC9 capacity is wrong and you've repeatedly stated it that the magazine holds 6 rounds. It holds 7.So you do realize that the P365 is also a very popular choice for women, right? Of course there are also extended mags for the Ruger, theres extended mags for just about everything. The point is the 1.5 stack allows for more capacity in a tiny form factor.
Keep in mind that the 12 round mag isn't even an extension, thats standard, it comes with the P365 when you buy it, its just long enough to have a pinky rest and thats it, otherwise if you are comfortable with only two fingers on the grip you can go with the flush 10-round.
And no, the LC9 doesn't carry all that differently than the P365 (at least the original smaller 3.1" barrel version, that is) and thats why people like it, men and women alike.
And of course these days there is plenty of competition. The Springfield Hellcat and S&W Shield Plus are just the two most popular alternatives. They also use 1.5 stack magazines.
You see the P365 and other 1.5 stack handguns dont carry much differently than the LC9 for a simple reason - the thickness of the slide. The LC9 has a thickness around 1" just like the P365. So sig took a look at that and said "why don't we make the grip the same thickness" and then the 1.5 stack was essentially born.
Here, I pulled up dimensions so you can see just how close the P365 really gets to the LC9:
LC9: OAL 6", thickness 0.9", Height 4.5", weight 17.2 ounces. 6-Round Capacity.
P365: OAL 5.8", thickness 1.0", height 4.3", weight 17.8 ounces. 10-Round Capacity.
Bonus: P365-XL Specs:
OAL 6.6", Thickness 1.1", Height 4.8", weight 20.7 ounces. Of course this has the longer 3.7" barrel and flush mag is 12-round instead of 10.
But the LC9 flush mag is 6 rounds, the P365 flush mag is 10 rounds. Hmmm, starting to sound an awful lot like 30 Super Carry, isn't it? Except these are all 9mm handguns.
The P365-XL is in a size category that is completely unique. Its larger than a micro-compact single stack, yet smaller than a traditional double-stack Sub-Compact like my original CCW - the Walther PPQ Sub-Compact LE Edition 3.5" barrel. Some competitors have joined like Springfields Hellcat PRO but they are few and far between and don't shoot as well nor have as many features.
Perhaps this will finally get the point across. Here is a link to the specs:
P365 OPTIC READY
America’s #1 selling micro-compact pistol, now optic-ready from the factory.www.sigsauer.com
You clearly have an affinity for repeating that the P365 is the "most popular" whatever and that seems to affect much of your thought processes that if something isn't the most popular it's a failure or somehow defective and thus is a terrible choice.You seem to have forgotten that this isn't just my opinion, this is the opinion of the people of these United States - as a whole. You don't just end up with the most popular and best selling firearm in the modern age for no reason - so think about that for a minute.
Sorry I screwed up with the ruger mag, whatever. P365 is 10+1, and the P365-XL is 12+1. I wasn't including the +1, just the magazine itself.Firstly, your data on the LC9 capacity is wrong and you've repeatedly stated it that the magazine holds 6 rounds. It holds 7.
Second, I'm talking about a theoretical pistol that's even thinner than an LC9 that's in .30 Super, it would be a pistol built from the ground up as .30 Super. You keep bringing up and talking about a pistol that I used as a reference (the LC9), not the actual pistol I have described and are focusing on using dimensions and capacities of the LC9 that is larger and holds less rounds to emphasize how much worse it is than the P365.
You seem to have a pattern of using incorrect data and statistics to further a narrative that comes off as an emotional attachment to a certain object and less one based in facts.
Unless you want to say a pistol thinner than the LC9 and the P365 wouldn't carry differently, then by all means please make that statement. I'm sure everyone else here is all ears.
You clearly have an affinity for repeating that the P365 is the "most popular" whatever and that seems to affect much of your thought processes that if something isn't the most popular it's a failure or somehow defective and thus is a terrible choice.
That may indeed be the case for YOU; anything in .30 Super and not a P365 in 9mm would be an awful choice for YOU, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible choice for everyone and anyone. My concept super slim .30 Super single stack pistol would work for ME and others in this topic have stated they too would be interested in such a pistol. Me and those others would be in a minority, but self defense isn't a popularity contest, if it was there wouldn't be a right to carry outside the home, it's an individual right and each individual finds what works better for them and what doesn't.
Ive never owned a Sig firearm of any kind