Any salvation for the .25ACP?

[Koblenz]

Magsafe ammo?

Well, I just got back from a gun show at the Atlanta Farmers' Market. One dealer had some Magsafe .25 ACPs that made quite extrodinary claims about improving the performance of the .25 ACP. I'm not quite sure but I think it claimed the muzzle velocity to be 1200 fps, and to elevate the stopping power to the equivalent of .380 ball.

Anybody heard of this stuff? I was dubious of the claims and didn't know if it would feed reliably in my Beretta. It was rather pricy like Glasers, so I would not be able to afford to do a lot of functioning testing with it. I decided to pass it by unless I hear some knowledgeable reports on it.

 

[Geno]

You folks recall the M.A.S.H. episode when Frank brings the Hot Lips', father's .25 ACP to the meeting of doctors for the patient exchange. When Frank turns over the weapon, the Korean doctor laughs and asks, "What the H^ll is that?!" I have never forgotten that scene. Every time I see a little .25, I chuckle inside. Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to own nice Colt chambered in one, but I would own it for historic value.

 

[Soybomb]

Here's an article about the magsafe .45 and how poorly it performs. I can't imagine how bad the .25 would do. Its a .25, sorry no magic round is going to make it more. http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm

 

[SeanSw]

I have put a box of .25 through a Raven. It was a horrible experience. The gun was a POS that jammed every few shots and was very inaccurate. I have also put a box of WWB through a CZ-Duo. It was a little gummy from storage and did not run as smoothly as it's capable, but it was darn accurate for a little pocket gun. I had no difficulty hitting a brass doorknob at 10-15 yards using the milled site along the slide.

The recoil is negligible and you could make a quick getaway after dumping a mag into someones soft parts. I liked the .25 acp much better after using it in a quality firearm.

 

[steak-knife]

.25 ACP Folklore

This story has been floating around since before my time on the job, and probably then some!

As it's told, some homocide detective had let his guard down while interviewing a suspect (apparently this was also before Contact/Cover tactics) and got shot in the neck with a .25 ACP at point blank range. The detective then emptied his .38 Special into the suspect within seconds of being shot.

After, the smoke cleared, and the suspect secured, the detective checked himself and found the .25 round lodged in the knot of his (Windsor knotted) neck tie, thus saving his life!

On the serious side, any firearm that reliably throws lead down range is better than nothing. It's just a matter of shot placement, and in the case of the .25 ACP, repeated shot placement on a vital organ.

 

[Koblenz]

Here's an article about the magsafe .45 and how poorly it performs.

The article describes a bullet consisting of small pellets like the Glasers, which are also criticized for inadequate penetration. I am not sure the .25 Magsafe used the same sort of prefragmented bullet. But I cannot now remember how the ammunition was supposed to be constructed, beyond it having a 1200fps muzzle velocity. I guess I will do a search and see if I can find someone who has actually tested the stuff.

 

[Soybomb]

See magsafe's own page "pre-fragmented safety ammunition", its what they made. To each his own.

 

[Koblenz]

I did some research on the Magsafe .25s. Yes, it's is has a Glaser clone prefragmented bullet. Too bad. The reputation of those types are for too shallow penetration. Still pissed about buying so many Glasers before learning about this.

My memory was incorrect about the muzzle velocity. It is claimed to be 1750 fps rather than 1200 fps - not that it matters.

I did look for some Fiochi .25s at the show, since the European brands are said to have better penetration. Never found a single box of it.

 

[Koblenz]

A bit more research turned up a comment by Evan Marshall that Magsafe .25s "MIGHT" be the best ammo for a .25 auto.

After reading so many threads about the .25, I have concluded that one should carry ball ammo with the deepest penetration. If it is necessary to fire at an attacker, the gun should be aimed at the eye sockets and the clip emptied. One should at least be able to blind the attacker and thus make an escape.

 

[old_ironsights]

Perusal of Surprising .25 ACP Ballistics

http://www.stevespages.com/page8f25acp.html

 

[Koblenz]

Thanks for the link, old ironsights. I had found that one earlier. It looks like the Federal American Eagle has the highest average velocity for the 50 grain FMJs.

 

[PX15]

JMOFO:

I hate to keep beating this dead horse, but IF a person feels the need to carry a firearm to protect him/herself why in the world would that person deliberately choose such a sorry platform for the job as the 25cal?

Hey folks, you can buy a NEW KelTec P32, or better yet the P3AT for less than $250.00, a used one for less, and you are light years better off.

I have no argument with folks who simply appreciate the little Colts and Brownings in 25cal for collectors, or as just casual plinkers, but the idea of depending on one when there are so many better alternatives makes absolutely no sense.:banghead:

If you don't know any better, and if someone gave you a 25cal pistol, and if you couldn't afford a higher caliber firearm that's one thing, but unless you are sitting in the local library using the free computer and you have no skills with which to earn a couple of hundred bucks to buy a larger caliber weapon then you are NOT being well served expecting a 25cal pistol to protect your life in a crisis.

J.Pomeroy


P.S. And, after saying all that, what firearm a person choses to defend him/her self with is strictly his/her business. I don't think a 25cal pistol is a good self defense choice, but I prefer to cc my 9mm Walther when circumstances allow, and lots of folks laugh at the puny 9mm round too...

 

[Koblenz]

I have no arguement with anyone who decides to buy a larger caliber than .25 for self-defense. I bought a Beretta Jetfire a long time ago and mainly just to add another type of gun to my collection, which is close to fourty rifles and pistols. If I need to defend myself, I can choose from a large number of calibers ranging from .38 Special up to a 12 guage shotgun, with practically everything in between. I won't be grabbing the Jetfire if I hear a burgler breaking in my house. My prefered home defense gun is a Chinese SKS in the closet with a stripper clip of 7.62 X 39 soft points that I can load in a second.

As I have said above, I was mainly interested if there had been any efforts to make the .25 more effective by improving the ammunition, in the same way 9mm was improved with +P+ loads, DPX, etc., etc.

 

[Koblenz]

I am now leaning toward buying a NAA Black Widow revolver in .22 Magnum in leu of other calibers and types of "mouse guns". The muzzle velocities of the .22 magnum are pretty impressive, even from a two inch barrel. I can't imagine one of those bullets bouncing off someone's skull or failing to penetrate a leather jacket.

 

[Schwebel]

If you are looking for a mousegun in rimfire, go wheelgun. There are alot of nice .22mag wheelies, Smith makes a really light weight J-frame style one and so does Taurus. My GF carried the Taurus .22mag for a long time. Isn't the Black Widow single action? That is better than a sharpstick I guess, but a single action rimfire would be my absolute last choice for a primary SD weapon.

I have a tomcat .32 that I carry alot, sometimes as a BUG, but alot of times when I go jogging or a quick run to the store...etc. I have heard horror stories about them, but I have had no problems. I have aftermarket 10 round mags for it. I can unload that thing rapid fire and put 11 little .32's in a silloutte at SD range, in a very very short amount of time. The gun has almost no recoil.

 

[skywarp_]

YES!!

They make great weapons when you out them in a sock and swing it like a flail.


Otherwise...it's better than a pointy stick....well it depends on the stick I suppose.

 

[Markbo]

Yeah that Black Widow will make a great choice. A rimfire AND a single action all in one. Why don't you just wear a jacket that says "I am armed... with witty dialogue and barbed tongue" and leave it at that?