Kimber Custom ll with about 5,000 rounds through it. Not a burp ever and accurate as I need. Based on the above posts it does appear to be the luck of the draw and I'm not a gambler so it looks as if the XD wins for the space of the next 45 for me.
Any Thoughts on Kimber 1911s
- Thread starter nmduke
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mljdeckard
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You do what you want, but remember a couple of things.
Kimber sells several TIMES more 1911s than their next competitors. A higher number of REPORTED problems does not necessarily equal a higher RATE of failures than anyone else. All mechanical devices eventually break, no matter what is stamped on the slide. On the internet, problem guns get a lot more attention than the majority that run just fine, no matter what the brand.
I THINK, that ever since Kimber burned into the semi-custom scene in the mid 90s, all of the guys who had been shelling out serious cash for Baers, Wilsons, etc have been sneering to justify spending so much for so long. A newcomer starts selling 1911s with hand-fitted slides, they say it must be impossible, there HAS to be a flaw. Why else were they spending so much on their guns?
Kimber sells several TIMES more 1911s than their next competitors. A higher number of REPORTED problems does not necessarily equal a higher RATE of failures than anyone else. All mechanical devices eventually break, no matter what is stamped on the slide. On the internet, problem guns get a lot more attention than the majority that run just fine, no matter what the brand.
I THINK, that ever since Kimber burned into the semi-custom scene in the mid 90s, all of the guys who had been shelling out serious cash for Baers, Wilsons, etc have been sneering to justify spending so much for so long. A newcomer starts selling 1911s with hand-fitted slides, they say it must be impossible, there HAS to be a flaw. Why else were they spending so much on their guns?
MarkDozier
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I own the custom carry II. Love it.
Though I don't own one myself, (I will explain why) I have seen many over the years as a RSO for our club IDPA style matches. My observation has been that they look great, feel great, but are the gun you bring to a gun fight (from the IDPA match perspective) unless you are willing to put some more time and money into a quality gunsmith. Most recently a guy bought a new Raptor, beautiful looking pistol, brought it to the match and could not get it to reliably feed. He took it home cleaned brought it back next week and was able to put 2 mags through it before it bit s**t. This one example, but I've seen many more of course I've seen some that function just fine however, these were older models. Someone earlier recommended S&W 1911's for about half the cost, I'd have to agree with that statement. Just my observations, YMMV.
This post is not a defense of Kimber but a reaction to what has become the norm on THR and the internet in general.
Did you happen to "observe" any useful details such as what magazines the shooter was using, what ammunition, how many rounds had been fired through the pistol, was it lubricated correctly etc.? But why bother right? It's just a Kimber which you KNOW are unreliable so there's no need for due diligence. Why waste our time with real data when you can make a general statement about your calibrated "observations".
:banghead:
distra said:
Did you happen to "observe" any useful details such as what magazines the shooter was using, what ammunition, how many rounds had been fired through the pistol, was it lubricated correctly etc.? But why bother right? It's just a Kimber which you KNOW are unreliable so there's no need for due diligence. Why waste our time with real data when you can make a general statement about your calibrated "observations".
:banghead:
Kingofthehill
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and im sure you have just NEVER commented about anything you personally haven't owned/done/experienced.
I wouldn't travel to Mexico and i don't need to experience it first hand to know that. I have heard of MANY MANY ford explorers (exploders) blow transmissions, i wont buy one of them either.
i think its totally fine for someone to share what they have seen and heard... so long as its true. I wanted a Glock 4th gen until i saw the guy next to me with a new one failing to run worth a dam.
JOe
I certainly don't make general statements without presenting as many FACTS as I can. As the saying goes, "the devil is in the details". Some of us actually care about the details and want to know why something isn't working properly.
Kingofthehill said:
Well isn't that nice. That's all it took for you to make a decision ... you saw a Glock that was "failing to run worth a dam" and now you don't want one anymore. Say after me "do you want fries with that?"
:banghead:
Kingofthehill
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wow... ok
Um... for the record, i own 4 glocks currently. 1 gen 2, and 3gen 3's.... im not buying a gen 4 between reports online ive read and seeing that one failing in front of my eyes.
yrralguthrie
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I have a Kimber Ultra Tac II. I have had no problems with it. Don't expect to. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to make a 1911.
Any company can make a 1911 that will fire and cycle every time out of the box. It won't be particularity accurate and will be loose fitting...and they won't be able to sell them. So they compromise, they make the gun very accurate and very tight and accept that there will be some failures to cycle correctly with some shooters until the gun is broken in. Or they make a gun that is very accurate and very tight and will fire and cycle every time out of the box and charge $2500 and up.
You too will have to make some compromises. A Kimber is very well made and doesn't break any more often than any but the "custom" guns. Some need to be broken in and some don't. So far as the springs needing to be replaced. This is a function of a small gun. There is more force on the springs and they are lighter springs. Ditto the frame and slide. The same round as the larger 1911 but the movement is only 60% of the larger. Much more force.
Plus there are those people who can break anything. I know people who can't drive a nail with a hammer without breaking the hammer or nail or lumber, and they expect a gun in their hands to be perfect.
So far as a Kimber being overpriced. I don't think so. An example or two. A hammer in a plain jane or a fancy hammer in a Kimber. Should cost the same to make, but there are not as many fancy hammers made so the cost goes up...significantly.
But the main cost in the Kimber is the exterior finish and workmanship. Whether you like it or not, think it's necessary or not, or even if you don't think it's great finish; it costs a lot to do it. A set of grips for a 1911. Worth maybe 5 bucks. A special set with a limited market, worth maybe 50 bucks.
If you drive a Texas/Oklahoma model Ford pickup, likely the Kimber is not your style, if you drive a King Ranch you may want a Kimber, if you drive a Cadillac Pickup you may want to skip to a Wilson. (I live in Oklahoma and have owned several Texas/Oklahoma models)
Any company can make a 1911 that will fire and cycle every time out of the box. It won't be particularity accurate and will be loose fitting...and they won't be able to sell them. So they compromise, they make the gun very accurate and very tight and accept that there will be some failures to cycle correctly with some shooters until the gun is broken in. Or they make a gun that is very accurate and very tight and will fire and cycle every time out of the box and charge $2500 and up.
You too will have to make some compromises. A Kimber is very well made and doesn't break any more often than any but the "custom" guns. Some need to be broken in and some don't. So far as the springs needing to be replaced. This is a function of a small gun. There is more force on the springs and they are lighter springs. Ditto the frame and slide. The same round as the larger 1911 but the movement is only 60% of the larger. Much more force.
Plus there are those people who can break anything. I know people who can't drive a nail with a hammer without breaking the hammer or nail or lumber, and they expect a gun in their hands to be perfect.
So far as a Kimber being overpriced. I don't think so. An example or two. A hammer in a plain jane or a fancy hammer in a Kimber. Should cost the same to make, but there are not as many fancy hammers made so the cost goes up...significantly.
But the main cost in the Kimber is the exterior finish and workmanship. Whether you like it or not, think it's necessary or not, or even if you don't think it's great finish; it costs a lot to do it. A set of grips for a 1911. Worth maybe 5 bucks. A special set with a limited market, worth maybe 50 bucks.
If you drive a Texas/Oklahoma model Ford pickup, likely the Kimber is not your style, if you drive a King Ranch you may want a Kimber, if you drive a Cadillac Pickup you may want to skip to a Wilson. (I live in Oklahoma and have owned several Texas/Oklahoma models)
Sure I'll bite. Act-Mags, Wilson combat and PowerMags were used without success. Pistol was brand new, cleaned and lubed with Mil-tec before the match, ammo was reloaded, but functioned flawlessly through his, of all things, Para double stack 1911. I never stated I KNEW they were unreliable, only that I observed several of them with reliability issues. For what you pay for these 1911's they should function 100% out of the box no matter which one you buy. I suppose you've seen several function flawlessly in matches and know exactly what components were used.
distra said:
I don't comment on the reliability of other people's firearms (good or bad) unless they give me specifics. In general, I have no idea what ammunition others are using, how well maintained their firearm is or how many rounds have been through it. I will and do comment on my own firearms. If I have a problem with any of mine, I take a systematic approach and try to solve the problem for myself. Read my two Kimber threads and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461946
I ended this thread stating ...
"I did discover that it [Kimber TEII) doesn't like my 185gr SWC reloads but that's ok ... I have plenty of 200gr and 250gr RN bullets and my SIG 220 has no problem digesting the 185gr loads. I had a couple of FTFs with some Blazer 230gr TMJ ammunition but it's early days."
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=502965
I ended this thread stating ...
"Yesterday I headed off to the range with the Kimber and a plan. I was going to shoot 10 of each type of factory ammunition followed by 10 of each of the 200gr LRNFP loads. I figured the RN bullets should feed 100% reliably. Finally, if all was good, I planned to shoot 10 of the SWC loads but I wasn't too optimistic about those. Well, the GREAT news is that all five loads functioned FLAWLESSLY. I ended up shooting 25 of the 185gr SWC loads without any issues at all. I am now a believer in Wilson Combat mags. The Kimber shot like a dream and was incredibly accurate with the 185gr loads. 10 shots grouped in the center of the target in a 2" circle at 15 yards."
Obviously, I haven't put that many rounds through my Kimber so I can only state what I know at this juncture ... and that's what I've done.
distra said:
I agree with this statement in as much as they should function 100% with FACTORY ammunition as recommended by the manufacturer. I don't think we can or should expect any more than that.
distra said:
Maybe you should suggest to this guy that he try factory ball ammunition with all three magazines that you listed. Are his reloads assembled to spec? The fact that they work in his PARA doesn't mean that his reloads are assembled properly. Also, Kimber mentions a 500 round break-in for their pistols.
I've been reloading since 1992 but despite assembling tens of thousands of rounds for many rifles and pistols, I'm never above learning or improving my approach/technique if or when it's necessary. Knowledge is a journey, not a destination!
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