Anybody use/keep less lethal ammo?

[Styx]

My understanding is that, for a civilian, shooting - or threatening to shoot - someone with a LTL round is the same as doing the same action with a standard round in the eyes of our legal systems.
In fact, it may be used to imply premeditation and malice... .

You can only pull out a gun to shoot someone in most cases if life is under imitate threat. The choice of LTL rounds may negate that argument.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…That is why police, prison guards, and military are all taught to shoot into the ground infant of a crowd…"

When thugs see that first sacrificial 'ground infant' take a round, they start to reconsider their life choices!

 

[Kleanbore]

The choice of LTL rounds may negate that argument.

How? pointing even an unloaded gun without lawful justification is a serious crime.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have not read the entire thread so forgive me. What scenario do you see yourself legally being able to take out a firearm and shoot people with less lethal projectiles? I'm just curious. I'd assume L.E. dealing with rioters/looters or attempting to arrest a non compliant subject and military applications do not translate well into lawful civilian use.

I personally do NOT see any situation/scenario where it would be legal/justified to use less than lethal ammo for any civilian use. Plus the fact that it has been proven that less than lethal ammo can still kill or seriously cripple when used at close range. And that is just with LTL shotgun ammo. Rubber bullets shot from rifles will penetrate just like FMJ bullets will at close ranges.

 

[Styx]

How? pointing even an unloaded gun without lawful justification is a serious crime.

What I'm saying is that if someone decided to claim their life was in danger and decide to use LTL rounds, that may work against them when a D.A. or jury is deciding their fate. Not many L.E. or people whose are about to be murdered would choose to use rounds that aren't lethal and may not stop the threat, and that's exactly how a D.A. and jury might see it.

It may or may NOT negate or contradict the claim that the shooter thought their life was in eminent danger.

 

[Kleanbore]

Oh.

 

[N555]

Closest thing to "less than lethal" I tried to obtain was when I tried to order an "air soft grenade" that uses 22 blanks from Europe. Apparently those are "too dangerous".
But tracers, flame throwers and flare guns are perfectly fine.
I guess a flamethrower would be "non lethal".

Hmmm.... LTL no good for use on people...
So what am I going to do with all these bean-bag rounds now? Rabbit hunting? Airsoft FOF?

Dude, I would pay to see air soft but with shotguns firing beanbag rounds.

 

[Thomasss]

In reading the statistics just showing up with a shotgun or similar defensive weapon in a home environment is commonly a good deterrent 96% of the time. I remember years ago rock salt in a 12 gauge was very useful for that purpose, but today it would have you end up in court anyway. Wisconsin has a maximum penalty of $25g for a death but no maximum for an injury. I've also heard of people dying by being tazed and from being hit with rubber bullets, though not common. As mentioned from others, if the need arises be prepared "to stop the threat". Warning shots, by the way, can also get you in a lot of trouble in court. Of course, Biden once told everyone on national TV to stick a shotgun out a window and pull the trigger to scare away prowlers. A guy tried that a few years ago and got arrested for discharging a gun within city limits. Police could not find any evidence of an alleged break-in or assault.

 

[Old Hobo]

Currently, civilization in the West is kind'a-sort'a still in place. Great, but ... In one's considerations concerning weaponry, one's thoughts should also include horribly hard-time scenarios wherein there will be NO police forces to come to anyone's aid, nor to enforce any laws. To say the least, we are living in tenuous times.

Masses of people get decidedly strange, even violent, when social structures crumble (or the Earth literally does so, i.e. earthquakes, grid failures due to earthquakes). Human personalities change when they under massive stress. Ugly though it may be to consider, but to protect one's family, it could be that you will have to engage many (MANY) aggressors simultaneously. Dealing with such terrible situations impacts magazine tube length choices and working on one's abilities to rapidly reload. What is needed during good times vs. that which is necessary during bad times are two different worlds. There's no predicting the future, yet one can prepare for various future event scenarios..
.

 

[Pete D.]

Not for personal defense. I keep three or four 12 gauge shells loaded with plastic buckshot sized pellets. I use them to chase bears off the decks behind the house. (If the animals dont leave of their own accord)

 

[DeepSouth]

I have a single shot .410 I keep loaded with #8 shot and it is for defense……mainly of snakes

 

[JDeere]

If you're going to point a firearm at someone you better be prepared to use it. Wounding a perp won't help you anymore than if he were deceased...

 

[Old Hobo]

Not for personal defense. I keep three or four 12 gauge shells loaded with plastic buckshot sized pellets. I use them to chase bears off the decks behind the house. (If the animals dont leave of their own accord)

Good on you!

It is we who move into bear territory. Bears are lazy, fat, always looking for something to eat ... sounds like most American humans. Me, I identify with bears. I love being in the woods, eating berries, ... . Grrrrrrrrrrrrr
.

 

[Waveski]

Count me as a NO.

No to less than lethal rounds for self defense,
And NO to sentences exceeding 100 words.

 

[Old Hobo]

Others may have already said this, but what it takes to disable a human can also kill a human.

Add to this the reality of criminal aggressors being high on drugs and alcohol. Ask police officers. To bring down a guy -- maybe not even a big guy -- it takes multiple officers to restrain the individual. This after having Tazed the perp multiple times. One of my grandfathers worked the psychiatric wards at a major Veterans Administration hospital in a time before all of today's psych medications were available. His stories were anything but happy/fun. In one instance, he said that it took six orderlies to restrain one patient. That patient was a SMALL man.

In a confrontation, don't assume that the aggressor will be anything like yourself. Think "strange", not normal -- the aggressor is very likely to be decidedly NOT normal.

What to do?! What defensive weapon to use? Add to this decision that often times it's not just you defending only yourself. You have a family to defend also. In the scheme of things, it is not fair to risk the lives of decent, civilized people against the rights of a violent felon. Fairness = aggressor loses.

He's NOT stopping with you. You becoming a victim means that others will inevitably be injured by this aggressor.

Know that being Mr. Niceguy has its negative ramifications.

Risky behaviors can result in death. Drive your car over 100 mph, you risk crashing & dying. Break into someone's home, you risk getting shot. This isn't rocket science.

Me, I keep buckshot loads in my home defense shotguns. I can't go around thinking about non-lethal modalities. That's not on me.
.

 

[Old Hobo]

Count me as a NO.

No to less than lethal rounds for self defense,
And NO to sentences exceeding 100 words.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." — H.L. MENCKEN

Mencken was a genius ... and not just for his time. The man knew human nature better than any psychologist.

Anytime one hears a politician saying that he/she is going to create some special program "for the good of the people", distrust, even anger should fill one's heart.

Witness what "gun control" got people under communist and NAZI rule.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Communism-Killed-Some-100-Million-People_fig1_324755193

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/democide

Democide: "the killing of members of a country's civilian population as a result of its government's policy, including by direct action, indifference, and neglect"
......

 

[JeffG]

No.

 

[Atavar]

Are you going to pad all your sticks and batons with pool noodles too? Put tape on your knife edges and corks on your knife tips?
The reason you have a firearm is to stop an attacker, not piss em off.

Having said that I have wondered how a can of FlexSeal spray would work for defense. It would certainly block vision and make breathing more difficult. (Facetiously)

 

[tarosean]

For SD? No
For barn control you bet your……….

 

[Jim Watson]

You could say I have less lethal ammo. I mean a pistol is usually closer to hand than a rifle or shotgun.

 

[tactikel]

You cannot discharge a firearm at somebody unless you are in mortal danger. Less than lethal SD/HD alternatives include: impact weapons, pepper sprays, and a canine.

 

[.308 Norma]

You cannot discharge a firearm at somebody unless you are in mortal danger.

Yes, I can - maybe not legally, but I sure can.

 

[.308 Norma]

Just wondering if anybody here has a gun stowed away at their bedside or in the closet with a shot of less legal (rubber slug, buckshot, snakeshot, etc..) or if you keep it on hand for any reason?

Sort of - we keep a single-shot .410 shotgun by the back door for garden pests. There's a box of shotshells with #6 shot in them in the top drawer of the cabinet on the other side of the door.
I guess that's pretty "lethal" though - at least it's pretty darned "lethal" to currant eating starlings in the bushes behind the garden.

 

[21H40]

For SD? No
For barn control you bet your……….

View attachment 1156263

Wait a minute... are you using snakes as less lethal options? I imagine a copperhead launcher would deter any rational human.

 

[.308 Norma]

Wait a minute... are you using snakes as less lethal options? I imagine a copperhead launcher would deter any rational human.