Anyone have any experience with 7mm-08 Ackley Improved?

[LocoGringo]

I've been going over the ballistics of various 7mm cartridges just for learnin'. I admire the 280 AI quite a bit, but have never actually shot one and honestly have no need for one. I am a handloader and made a custom rifle for my son in 7mm-08. However, he's still kinda small and doesn't enjoy shooting the rifle even though it's a bit heavy for a bolt action and has a 7" suppressor on it thereby reducing recoil significantly. So, I'm on a quest to try to make a load for him so that he will enjoy shooting his rifle. I've selected the Barnes 7mm 120 grain TTSX bullet to load and will begin soon (I hope). It's gotten me thinking though...how would one maximize the 7mm-08 without adding too much recoil?

If the 280 Remington is improved as Ackley did it and made the 280 AI which squeezed a bit more performance out of the Remington design, could the same be done for the 7mm-08? I just did an internet search and it turns out I'm not an original thinker. It has been done, however, it doesn't seem to be very popular or done very much. I haven't heard it discussed at all on forums and am curious if anyone here has done it and what your results were if you have. Since standard 7mm-08 ammo can be used in the chamber, are there any drawbacks to having a 7mm-08 AI chamber?

 

[Varminterror]

Little more powder is the only drawback. 7-08AI was my favorite cartridge for a long time.

How big is your son? What does the rifle weigh? What’s it’s length of Pull? And what positions and supports are you affording him?

 

[LocoGringo]

Little more powder is the only drawback. 7-08AI was my favorite cartridge for a long time.

How big is your son? What does the rifle weigh? What’s it’s length of Pull? And what positions and supports are you affording him?

My son is 13, 5'2"-5'3" maybe, 100 pounds maybe, and skinny. He doesn't have a lot of strength yet, but he is a great swimmer. The rifle weighs about 9.5 pounds. It's a Defiance Rebel action bought in 2010, a 22" Krieger fluted barrel in the heaviest hunting contour (the actual contour escapes me right now) and a HS Precision hunting stock. I'm sure it doesn't fit him yet. He's only shot it off of a front rest and rear bag from a benchrest. He's not a typical "rough and tumble" 13 year-old boy. He's more of an indoor kid and it's a struggle to get his head out of electronics or a book. It's also a struggle to get him out of his comfort bubble.

For now, to get him out in the woods hunting, he's using my suppressed (7" titanium suppressor) 16" barreled 6.8 SPC which is lighter and more compact with VERY low recoil. The last time we went to the range, I challenged him to rest his elbows on the bench and shoot inside of a small paper plate. He succeeded 3/4 of the time.

I've got a Bergara B14 Ridge in 7mm-08 on the way for me. It's very similar to his, but will be a bit lighter overall package. I've also ordered a Banish 30 suppressor and will likely run it in the 7" configuration. I'm going to load for his rifle first with the 120 TTSX bullets.

What did your favorite cartridge change to and why?

 

[Scooter22]

Sorry but reading your posts sounds like you are pushing your son into something he's not interested in. Maybe try a .243. But if he doesn't like shooting well don't shove it in his face. I've seen plenty of parents push their kids into something THEY like. Not a good idea.

 

[LocoGringo]

Sorry but reading your posts sounds like you are pushing your son into something he's not interested in. Maybe try a .243. But if he doesn't like shooting well don't shove it in his face. I've seen plenty of parents push their kids into something THEY like. Not a good idea.

I can see how you think that. He wants to go hunting and get a deer. He also enjoys shooting my CZ-457 precision .22. I know he doesn't enjoy shooting as much as me, but he enjoyed shooting his Rascal single shot .22 quite a bit. He just didn't like the sweat bees.

I agree with the idea that pushing a kid into something the parent likes is a mistake, but that's not happening here.

 

[someguy2800]

Is it the recoil that bothers him or does the rifle not physically fit him well? If he is only 5'2" he probably needs a short length of pull and the size of the grip on the stock might be uncomfortably large as well. If he enjoys your SPC it might be best to just let him run with that for a couple more years until he grows into the rifle you built for him.

Here is some info on creating reduced recoil loads using H4895 from hodgdon. Note that this method should only be used with H4895, not IMR4895 or any other powder

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

[LocoGringo]

OK, I can see how my original post got sidetracked. I'm not thinking about the rifle for my son. That was an anecdotal story that lead into the idea of how to absolutely maximize the performance 7mm-08 caliber. Please forget about the story of my son and the rifle I built for him and focus on maximizing the performance of the 7mm-08 and the second paragraph of my OP.

Thanks for the concern for my son, but I've got that covered. He's going to use my 6.8 SPC until he's big enough and comfortable shooting the 7mm-08 I built for him.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I doubt there is enough difference in a standard 7mm08 and an AI to justify the trouble and expense.

I originally bought my 7mm08 with the intent of rechambering it to .284win.
My goal was to run a 139/140gr bullet to 3,000fps which is .280Rem performance.

Imagine my surprise when I shot some PMC 139gr factory ammo which tripped the chronograph at 3,000fps. Soooo, I decided to leave it as-is. Glad I did.

My suggestion is get some Reloader 17 and some Hornady 139gr BTSPT. It has the smallest bore riding surface of any bullet in its class. With H414, H4350, or RL17, it easily gets 3,000fps from my 20”bbl REM Mod-7.

However, my rifle prefers a 150gr Nosler at 2,900fps.

The body taper and case neck of the parent case doesn’t leave room for much improvement. Not like the .22-250 or .30/06 case do. I considered rebarreling one of my .270’s or ‘06 to .280AI.
Instead, for less than the cost of a barrel, I bought a Remington M700 in 7mm Mag....I already had dies, cases, bullets, powder, primers, ect.....

 

[Bfh_auto]

OK, I can see how my original post got sidetracked. I'm not thinking about the rifle for my son. That was an anecdotal story that lead into the idea of how to absolutely maximize the performance 7mm-08 caliber. Please forget about the story of my son and the rifle I built for him and focus on maximizing the performance of the 7mm-08 and the second paragraph of my OP.

Thanks for the concern for my son, but I've got that covered. He's going to use my 6.8 SPC until he's big enough and comfortable shooting the 7mm-08 I built for him.

You can't increase velocity without increasing recoil.
The main reason the 280AI increased velocity over the 280 by such a large amount is the increased pressure it is operating at.

 

[wbm]

Anyone have any experience with 7mm-08 Ackley Improved

Yes. Don't

 

[Varminterror]

I doubt there is enough difference in a standard 7mm08 and an AI to justify the trouble and expense.

What are the “trouble and expense” associated with 7-08 AI? Folks say this about AI’s a lot without any founding for their implications.

A hunter can shoot plenty small with factory 7-08 ammo in a 7-08AI chamber to achieve the goal. But more forgiving loading and longer brass life, less-to-no trimming, same brass, powder, primers, bullets… there’s no more “trouble or expense” for the 7-08AI than standard 7-08, but there IS potential to reduce some trouble…

 

[Varminterror]

What did your favorite cartridge change to and why?

I used the 7-08AI for a long time as my preferred hunting and long range shooting cartridge, with access to factory ammo and broad availability of components. I eventually swapped for a fast-twist 243AI for a long time as well, and now for the last several years, I shoot a 6 creed for these tasks. I suppose I shoot a 6 Dasher the most, and would admit that likely the 6 GT would do everything I want with lesser cost, lesser recoil, longer barrel life, but market availability is still in its infancy for the GT.

But “hunting” for me means deer, hogs, and coyotes far more often than it means elk or bear, and when I DO go after bigger game, I’m paying a lot for high time density experiences out of state, so I take a much bigger hammer than any of the above cartridges. The 140-180grn bullet, 50-65grn powder cartridges have largely fallen off of my desk - my bread and butter common hunting is done with smaller rounds, and my out-of-state big game hunting is done with bigger rounds for extra confidence and insurance.

 

[Nature Boy]

less-to-no trimming

That right there makes it worthwhile. One of these days I’m going to make a .308 AI just for that reason

 

[robin banks]

if you want to get the most velocity out of the 7MM 08 6.5 staball will get you there if that is what you want. I never saw the velocity goose gestapo gets with his 08 with a 20" barrel

 

[LocoGringo]

if you want to get the most velocity out of the 7MM 08 6.5 staball will get you there if that is what you want. I never saw the velocity goose gestapo gets with his 08 with a 20" barrel

Thanks for the tip!

I almost made a reply about not wanting to get into another caliber...