anyone reloading boxer primed steel casings?
- Thread starter hershey
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wally
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I'd toss the higher pressure stuff like .223, .40S&W etc. But I've reloaded a lot of the Wolf .45ACP. Just make sure what you've picked up are yours and not someone else's that have started rusting. I grab the easy to find empties, reload them and save them for shooting in places I've little chance of finding my empties (like my friends ranch -- typically ankle high weeds).
--wally.
--wally.
evan price
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Why, when there is so much free brass to be picked up at public ranges?
wally
Member
Actually .45 brass is pretty scarce at our range, as is reloadable rifle brass. But you can pick up all the 9mm and .40S&W you'd need.
--wally.
--wally.
Steel cases are for all practical purposes non reloadable. With the exception of the previous poster, no one I know has tried to reload the stuff.
Call up a sizing die manufacturer and ask them what they think. Put cotton in your ear because you are going to get yelled at.
Call up a sizing die manufacturer and ask them what they think. Put cotton in your ear because you are going to get yelled at.
I've read on ar15.com about a fella who has reloaded steel wolf cases in .223.
Try it out and let us know what happens. I seriously doubt you're going to hurt yourself, but I'm not an expert. They should last a few reloadings at least, and the steel used for such a thing *probably* isn't going to hurt the super-tough carbide steel they make dies from. If it does, you're out $30 for some new dies, and at current .223 brass prices, you can't get much brass for $30.
Try it out and let us know what happens. I seriously doubt you're going to hurt yourself, but I'm not an expert. They should last a few reloadings at least, and the steel used for such a thing *probably* isn't going to hurt the super-tough carbide steel they make dies from. If it does, you're out $30 for some new dies, and at current .223 brass prices, you can't get much brass for $30.
fireflyfather
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My copy of the Lee reloading manual suggests that you CAN reload steel cases.
I commented on this in a previous thread on the subject. It's a rather controversial subject to some. I hope this thread does not degenerate into a shouting match between "You'll blow yourself up" and "I do it all the time".
Sure, it can be done. I've done it, but not with entirely satisfactory results. I had better luck with .45 cases than Wolf .223.
A brass case needs to be strong at the base to handle the pressure, and soft at the neck to seal the chamber. Steel is plenty strong for the base, but the softest steel is not as soft as brass, resulting in plenty of split necks.
If you decide to try it, just be careful as you would with any reloading. Lube your brass, even in carbide dies. Well lubed, it doesn't seem to harm the dies at all (dies are tool steel, cases are mild steel). Watch carefully for any rust or cracks. In the long run I think you will find that it's not worth it, and just buy some cheap brass.
Sure, it can be done. I've done it, but not with entirely satisfactory results. I had better luck with .45 cases than Wolf .223.
A brass case needs to be strong at the base to handle the pressure, and soft at the neck to seal the chamber. Steel is plenty strong for the base, but the softest steel is not as soft as brass, resulting in plenty of split necks.
If you decide to try it, just be careful as you would with any reloading. Lube your brass, even in carbide dies. Well lubed, it doesn't seem to harm the dies at all (dies are tool steel, cases are mild steel). Watch carefully for any rust or cracks. In the long run I think you will find that it's not worth it, and just buy some cheap brass.
The brass case is like a fuse in an electrical circuit. It is the first thing to react to high pressures and give you a warning.
The steel case is not going to give you that degree of luxury or rather protection. There will be little difference from when the steel case fails and the rifle is in danger of being damaged along with the shooter.
The steel case is not going to give you that degree of luxury or rather protection. There will be little difference from when the steel case fails and the rifle is in danger of being damaged along with the shooter.
evan price
Member
Wow, maybe I'm just lucky. I started scrounging Friday, July 13 2007 and since then I've picked up 5-gallons of 9mm, 3 gallons of 30-06, 2 gallons each of .223, .45 and .40s&w. plus half-gallons each of 7.62x39, .380, .357, .44, .38sp, .30-.30, .308, .30-M1, .357sig, FN 5-7, and misc oddball calibers. Plus 5-gallons of scrap brass.
I gave my FIL a cool-whip container full of LC-'07 HS .223 and it honestly didn't seem to drop the level in the bucket any.
My wife's actually getting annoyed at how the brass containers are spilling out from the workshop into the den.
I save stuff I don't even have guns for 'cuz you never know.
I gave my FIL a cool-whip container full of LC-'07 HS .223 and it honestly didn't seem to drop the level in the bucket any.
My wife's actually getting annoyed at how the brass containers are spilling out from the workshop into the den.
I save stuff I don't even have guns for 'cuz you never know.
gipperdog
Member
I've always been told to either throw the steel stuff away or just don't pick it up. What I've been told is that they will fail, as all brass does too, but that steel does not give any warning signs like brass will. The steel just let's go & can cause either and/or damage to the gun. My 2cent's worth.
I've successfully reloaded 100 Wolf 45 ACP cases a few times, using a carbide sizing die and spray lube. I'm not sure how many loadings I'll get before the steel work hardens and cracks, but that's the point of the exercise -- experimenting to find out.
Noah
Noah
g.willikers
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Would annealing the steel cases make them easier to resize and better able to seal the chamber?
It might be worth the try with the cost of brass what it is, nowadays.
It might be worth the try with the cost of brass what it is, nowadays.
I'm not a metallurgist, but I think that annealing steel is a lot different from annealing brass. On top of that, you would burn off the coating on the steel case.
Steel has been succesfully used for cartridge cases for many decades, proving to me that is a safe alternative to brass if done right. The nature of the metal, however, make it (like aluminum) far less useable for more than one firing.
Steel has been succesfully used for cartridge cases for many decades, proving to me that is a safe alternative to brass if done right. The nature of the metal, however, make it (like aluminum) far less useable for more than one firing.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I reloaded a few 7.62x54R steel casings just to see if it could be
done. The primer pockets were loose. Since the primers seemed to
go in a little too easy, I sealed the primers with red lacquer. First
shot on examination showed a ring of black soot around the
primer. That was the last shot with that batch. I disassembled
the other (very few) rounds for the components. I have successfully
reloaded BRASS 7.62x54R but I would NOT attempt reloading steel
casings unless it was the only thing between me and starvation
or dangerous wildlife. It can be done, but with servicable brass
available, there is no need to do it.
done. The primer pockets were loose. Since the primers seemed to
go in a little too easy, I sealed the primers with red lacquer. First
shot on examination showed a ring of black soot around the
primer. That was the last shot with that batch. I disassembled
the other (very few) rounds for the components. I have successfully
reloaded BRASS 7.62x54R but I would NOT attempt reloading steel
casings unless it was the only thing between me and starvation
or dangerous wildlife. It can be done, but with servicable brass
available, there is no need to do it.
I have examined technical journals from WWII where the manufacturing of steel cases was discussed in print. Due to nut case Security types, this type of information will never be shown public ever again. That rant aside, the hardness of steel cases was critical for function, and very difficult to control. Hardness varied throughout the case by the way.
I just don't know what would happen if the case is heated up. When you heat brass up you remove the work hardness. Heating steel up changes the celluar structure. Maybe it would make no difference at the neck, but further down....?
From what I have read in the past was that people who tried to size steel cases broke their sizing dies.
evan price
Member
I'm pretty sure that I could throw bullets downrange and hit the target, too, but why do it the hard way?
If you really want a challenge, see how many times you can reload and fire .40 S&W CCI Blazer aluminum cartridges in an early model stock barrel Glock 22 with lead projos.
If you want to reload steel case, knock yourself out.
As for me, I have lots of brass.
dodgestdshift
Member
My experience with reloading steel (Wolf) 45 ACP cases was not good. They were boxer primed but when undersized flash holes removed the decapping pin from the die and tied up the press (I had to pry the case out with a screwdriver), I dumped the lot and never used them again.
why don't they make cylinder heads and pistons out of brass?
Reload those steel cases friend, then tell us what happens. I'm shocked that wolf is the only manufacturer using cheaper steel over brass.... but with commodity prices being what they are, I think more folks are going to go that direction.... in which case everyone will be eating their words because all that we'll be able to find will be steel cases.
If Lee says you CAN do it, like another poster said, then you're safe. Besides, check out ar15.com, there's a great testimonial on there that it works, even how they did it. Steel is a great metal for cartridge casings...has much higher strength than brass, and with current coating technology, can be rust proof for a very long time. I think the only reason we're still using brass is because it 'has always been done that way' and wasn't all that much more than steel by the time they retool the shop and put fancy coatings on steel.
As a note, Wolf, who uses "lousy steel, non-reloadable cases" uses Vihtavouri powders.
Reload those steel cases friend, then tell us what happens. I'm shocked that wolf is the only manufacturer using cheaper steel over brass.... but with commodity prices being what they are, I think more folks are going to go that direction.... in which case everyone will be eating their words because all that we'll be able to find will be steel cases.
If Lee says you CAN do it, like another poster said, then you're safe. Besides, check out ar15.com, there's a great testimonial on there that it works, even how they did it. Steel is a great metal for cartridge casings...has much higher strength than brass, and with current coating technology, can be rust proof for a very long time. I think the only reason we're still using brass is because it 'has always been done that way' and wasn't all that much more than steel by the time they retool the shop and put fancy coatings on steel.
As a note, Wolf, who uses "lousy steel, non-reloadable cases" uses Vihtavouri powders.
This thread got me thinking, trying to remember exactly why I decided against messing with steel cases. I was at the range a few days ago and found a pile of Wolf boxer primed steel cases.
Just for the heck of it I loaded a few and shot them. My conclusion is that if I was desperate for cases I would not hesitate to use them. I used a fairly mild load of 748 and 55gr. FMJ bullets. Accuracy and function were fine, though several had split necks after the second firing. I would not load them hot because, as someone mentioned, pressure signs in steel are likely to be quite different from pressure signs in brass, for those that work up loads watching pressure signs. Myself, I stay away from the maximum loads and don't rely on pressure signs anyway.
They are not as "user friendly" as brass. Be sure to lube very well when sizing. They did not damage my dies in any way, but I destroyed my LEE trimmer pilot when trimming. No big deal, I needed a new one anyway after 15+ years. They definitely do not trim as easily, as steel really is harder than brass.
Long story short, any more I find go in the trash. It's just not worth the extra hassle for me. I'm not a high volume shooter and .223 brass is still relatively cheap. I don't think it's dangerous to load steel if you're careful, but overall I think the hassle would be less with just picking up some good "AMERC" brass to load instead.
Just for the heck of it I loaded a few and shot them. My conclusion is that if I was desperate for cases I would not hesitate to use them. I used a fairly mild load of 748 and 55gr. FMJ bullets. Accuracy and function were fine, though several had split necks after the second firing. I would not load them hot because, as someone mentioned, pressure signs in steel are likely to be quite different from pressure signs in brass, for those that work up loads watching pressure signs. Myself, I stay away from the maximum loads and don't rely on pressure signs anyway.
They are not as "user friendly" as brass. Be sure to lube very well when sizing. They did not damage my dies in any way, but I destroyed my LEE trimmer pilot when trimming. No big deal, I needed a new one anyway after 15+ years. They definitely do not trim as easily, as steel really is harder than brass.
Long story short, any more I find go in the trash. It's just not worth the extra hassle for me. I'm not a high volume shooter and .223 brass is still relatively cheap. I don't think it's dangerous to load steel if you're careful, but overall I think the hassle would be less with just picking up some good "AMERC" brass to load instead.
You can take your decapping pin out, chuck it in a drill andtake a little off the diameter.
As for the scarcity of brass at the range, I've noticed a lot of that lately, although I picked up 100 .45ACP and about that much .40S&W, which I don't reload at the moment.
But my biggest score lately was a 2 day pistol class I took a couple of weekends ago. 6 guys, I'm the only reloader! I tossed that out during a break and at the end of the sessions when we policed our brass they dumped it all in my bucket! So far I've tumbled a .50 cal can of .45 ACP (some S&B) and have at least that much 9mm luger to go. I figure I recouped about half the class fee in brass. Some Blazer aluminum, I'll take that to my range and throw it in their recycle bin, and some Wolf .45ACP- very small proportion, considering the cost of ammo these days. Boxer primed, so I've been thinking of loading a few for the experience. It's a relatively low pressure round, so it would be the best to start with.
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