Anyone use bismuth shot for geese?

[brewer12345]

In a lot of ways, I really hate steel shot and I think non tox regulations for waterfowl are dumb. That said, gotta follow the rules and steel is affordable so that is what I have used. I am however coming to the end of my BB 3" 12 gauge stash. I can either go out and pay up to buy more, or move to something else.

So has anyone used bismuth shot on geese? I ask because I shot a big greater canadian yesterday morning with name brand BB shot and made a real solid hit on a pass shoot. I saw the goose fall out of the air and hit the river with a big splash and figured it was dead. A moment later I watched it climb onto the river bank and disappear. I crossed and ended up tracking this thing at least half a mile before finding it and wrapping things up with a headshot close up. When I cleaned the goose, I realized I broke a wing up good, but the 2 or 3 pellets that hit the breast and were placed perfectly to hit the vitals did not penetrate enough. I found two pellets that went all the way to the ribcage and stopped against the ribs.

Looking around for alternatives, I suppose I could try to find 3.5" BBB shells in steel, bismuth, or tungsten. The last one is out simply due to cost. I'd really rather not move up shell size with steel simply to avoid recoil, plus steel sucks. So that leaves me looking at bismuth. I have a lee load all that would let me experiment with low volume shells and I might pick up a box of (rather expensive) commercial shells to try it out. I was thinking #1 or B size bismuth shot might offer better down rane penetration and energy on geese. Since our goose hunting is generally pass shooting, I think an alternative like this might be worth the extra effort and expense.

 

[Kingcreek]

I’ve used bismuth and tungsten matrix but haven’t hunted waterfowl in recent years. Bismuth can corrode and clump up and throw erratic patterns after some age or exposure to weather conditions

 

[jmr40]

I have very limited experience, and it's been a while. Things may have changed. Bismuth works much like conventional lead shells. But it is expensive. If you only get the occasional shot at geese then it might be worth the expense to you.

Once you figure out that you need to go to about 2 shot sizes larger and shoot 3" shells instead of 2 3/4" steel works pretty well on ducks in my experience. It's hard to get enough of the big steel shot in a 3" shell for geese and that is why the 3 1/2" shells and guns were developed.

I haven't had a chance to waterfowl hunt in several years, but I was pretty active at one time. For me #2 steel from 3" shells did fine on duck. I got a rare shot at geese while duck hunting and killed a couple with #2 steel, but preferred BB's if I knew I was taking a shot at a goose. These were typically at close range on beaver ponds.

But if I were serious about pass shooting geese I'd invest in a 3 1/2" gun and use steel. Bismuth is too expensive for me to use in any volume. I bought some 2 3/4" bismuth to use in my dad's old gun which isn't steel shot rated. It worked great, but I can't afford to shoot much of it.

 

[brewer12345]

I have very limited experience, and it's been a while. Things may have changed. Bismuth works much like conventional lead shells. But it is expensive. If you only get the occasional shot at geese then it might be worth the expense to you.

Once you figure out that you need to go to about 2 shot sizes larger and shoot 3" shells instead of 2 3/4" steel works pretty well on ducks in my experience. It's hard to get enough of the big steel shot in a 3" shell for geese and that is why the 3 1/2" shells and guns were developed.

I haven't had a chance to waterfowl hunt in several years, but I was pretty active at one time. For me #2 steel from 3" shells did fine on duck. I got a rare shot at geese while duck hunting and killed a couple with #2 steel, but preferred BB's if I knew I was taking a shot at a goose. These were typically at close range on beaver ponds.

But if I were serious about pass shooting geese I'd invest in a 3 1/2" gun and use steel. Bismuth is too expensive for me to use in any volume. I bought some 2 3/4" bismuth to use in my dad's old gun which isn't steel shot rated. It worked great, but I can't afford to shoot much of it.

Steel has become more expensive and hard to find these days, especially specialty 3 1/2" loadings.

 

[Jerry M]

If you can afford bismuth, shoot it. As stated above it shoots like lead. This is my experience also.

 

[Random 8]

I have, but greatly prefer the Tungsten based options. The bismuth killed geese, but I didn't see much improvement over steel for longer shots. Might have been a pattern density thing. This is for targets of opportunity while duck hunting where pass shots are most likely. My shooting is often long and at tough angles here. I've had good luck with Hevi-shot loadings going as fast as possible.

When I'm on dedicated goose hunts, fields over decoys, I use nothing but Kent Faststeel 3"#2 for the first 2. Hevi-shot #2 for the 3rd shot backer, sometimes starting second shot, depending on the bird's attitude that day. Velocity and head/neck or top/back shots are the key to cleanly killing geese. Hits in the breast simply don't penetrate enough to kill no matter what I've shot at them. I suppose large pellet tungsten like "dead coyote" might, but then you're basically using buckshot. Unless your retriever needs a good workout, use SMALLER shot at high speeds and get your lead right. The 2s you have in the gun for big ducks will work just fine. Lead as much as you think to hit the head, then add 3 feet on a passing goose. Setting into decoys consciously lead for head shots, and back/neck as they flare. You'll be amazed how they crumple. I've dumped several cold on my wood duck pond with 4s when they unexpectedly came in and I knew I HAD to hit the head, so put even more concentration into shot placement.

The +2 shot sizes thing works well for ducks. Not for geese, you lose too much pattern density to get those head/neck hits.

I shoot over 50 geese a year and rarely have to chase one. I am firmly convinced that having trouble killing geese is a shooter thing, not an ammunition thing. I switched shot sizes and philosophy some 5 years ago, and it was a true epiphany!

 

[brewer12345]

Interesting, random. In general, we don't hunt geese over decoys, so the closer shots where I would use 2 shot in steel are rare. Pattern density on bbs is a real concern and I am still working on lead in my shots.

 

[Random 8]

I think #2 Tungsten would be up your alley then. That's what I like for pass shooting on Geese. Some of the HS loads really shoot tight.

The +2 shot sizes mantra came out of the same big ammo companies that pushed really heavy payloads too slow to penetrate in the early days of steel shot. 1260fps MV steel BBs might as well be rubber. That ugly fallacy keeps floating to the surface in new loads also. The Euros got it right with lighter charges of steel moving really fast. Some of the US loads followed suit, but you need to shop carefully. Velocity kills. They need to be up in the 1400fps range for close shooting, 1500+ for longer. Past 40 yards, steel just isn't dense enough to retain enough velocity no matter how fast it starts.

EDIT after market research...

UFF DA! Been awhile since I bought goose loads LOL. Guess I'll be phasing out tungsten options going forward as well! $5+ a shell, no way. Give these a whirl, I think you said your gun will take 3.5"shells. I've shot the 3" version and lots of them for ducks and geese before it was discontinued in favor of heavier and slower. Now it appears to be back! You might be surprised how well they work on geese. Keep your shots closer, let the 50 yarders keep flying unless you want really expensive shells, favor the front of the bird. They're gonna kick some. https://www.natchezss.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammunition/xpt-hv-stl-12ga-35-1-14-oz-2-wnwex12lm2 I'd love to say use #1 Steel, but it's almost impossible to find even in good ammo times.

 

[brewer12345]

I think #2 Tungsten would be up your alley then. That's what I like for pass shooting on Geese. Some of the HS loads really shoot tight.

The +2 shot sizes mantra came out of the same big ammo companies that pushed really heavy payloads too slow to penetrate in the early days of steel shot. 1260fps MV steel BBs might as well be rubber. That ugly fallacy keeps floating to the surface in new loads also. The Euros got it right with lighter charges of steel moving really fast. Some of the US loads followed suit, but you need to shop carefully. Velocity kills. They need to be up in the 1400fps range for close shooting, 1500+ for longer. Past 40 yards, steel just isn't dense enough to retain enough velocity no matter how fast it starts.

EDIT after market research...

UFF DA! Been awhile since I bought goose loads LOL. Guess I'll be phasing out tungsten options going forward as well! $5+ a shell, no way. Give these a whirl, I think you said your gun will take 3.5"shells. I've shot the 3" version and lots of them for ducks and geese before it was discontinued in favor of heavier and slower. Now it appears to be back! You might be surprised how well they work on geese. Keep your shots closer, let the 50 yarders keep flying unless you want really expensive shells, favor the front of the bird. They're gonna kick some. https://www.natchezss.com/ammunition/shotgun-ammunition/xpt-hv-stl-12ga-35-1-14-oz-2-wnwex12lm2 I'd love to say use #1 Steel, but it's almost impossible to find even in good ammo times.

The stupid cost of steel these days is why I am looking at bismuth. If I am going to pay through the nose anyway, might as well investigate some better options. I have a box of hevi #1 bismuth coming my way and will try them in my next outing. If I like them I may pony up for some boss #2 bismuth shells for late season geese (when the monsters seem to show up and the rest get smarter about flying low). I may try steel 2s for early season, but that means I have some time to snoop around and see if I can find 3.5s at a slightly more reasonable price. I have a pile of steel 2s in 3 inch flavor that I might try as well for early season.

 

[Random 8]

I like the looks of the Boss shells, and I love the story. I will likely be trying them in the near future as well, as my Steel stockpile is dwindling. Been shooting some random stuff the last couple years, as my regular loads did not exist locally. The price difference between the 2 is narrowing so that helps! Please give a report on how your shells are working. Our waterfowl season ended over a month ago! Water's a little hard now.

 

[brewer12345]

I like the looks of the Boss shells, and I love the story. I will likely be trying them in the near future as well, as my Steel stockpile is dwindling. Been shooting some random stuff the last couple years, as my regular loads did not exist locally. The price difference between the 2 is narrowing so that helps! Please give a report on how your shells are working. Our waterfowl season ended over a month ago! Water's a little hard now.

Will do. At this point my waterfowl hunting is river bottom only because everything else is frozen.

 

[Seedy Character]

Guided for duck and geese over decoys, when steel was the only option.

Settled on Federal HV 12ga 3" 1s for duck and Ts for geese.

Kent FastSteel 2s is good on duck

Bismuth does cost more, but the 3" BB is effective.

I have moved to 3 1/2" BBB for big Canadians and late season, wary birds.

Tungsten is an awesome performer, 6s or 4s are legimate goose loads, but I can't justify that expense on a daily basis. Hopefully, cost will get more reasonable, but I don't see it happening.

 

[brewer12345]

Guided for duck and geese over decoys, when steel was the only option.

Settled on Federal HV 12ga 3" 1s for duck and Ts for geese.

Kent FastSteel 2s is good on duck

Bismuth does cost more, but the 3" BB is effective.

I have moved to 3 1/2" BBB for big Canadians and late season, wary birds.

Tungsten is an awesome performer, 6s or 4s are legimate goose loads, but I can't justify that expense on a daily basis. Hopefully, cost will get more reasonable, but I don't see it happening.

Looks like 3.5 BBB is rare as hen's teeth.

I haven't even considered tungsten. Off the charts expensive.

 

[Seedy Character]

Looks like 3.5 BBB is rare as hen's teeth.

I haven't even considered tungsten. Off the charts expensive.

I stumbled on 2 boxes at Academy last summer. Wasn't what I was looking for, but I took both. They do get your attention.

 

[brewer12345]

I stumbled on 2 boxes at Academy last summer. Wasn't what I was looking for, but I took both. They do get your attention.

Yeah. That is an issue for me. After a frozen shoulder and a LOT of physical therapy, I try to avoid too much recoil. I actually went out and bought the lowest recoiling waterfowl gun I could find. The one magnum 3" shell (1 5/8 oz lead shot at 13XX FPS) I fired at a turkey this fall about slapped me silly. Think I will try the bismuth first.

 

[Jerry M]

Isn't Tungsten much harder that bismith? It could effect the choke on an older shotgun. Also you may have to swap chokes on newer shotguns to get the pattern you desire when switching between the two loads.

 

[brewer12345]

Well, I put a full choke in and hunted today. No geese, but a pair of mallards showed up and I dropped one at 25 yards or so. Bird was dead by the time it hit the ground, but tells me little about how this will work for geese.

 

[Seedy Character]

Body hits?
Penetration?

Geese are bigger and take a bit more for penetration.
Bismuth 2s or BB is my choice. 4s for ducks.
YMMV

 

[brewer12345]

Body hits?
Penetration?

Geese are bigger and take a bit more for penetration.
Bismuth 2s or BB is my choice. 4s for ducks.
YMMV

Most strikes were head and neck, with a couple tagging the leading edge of one side of breast. The breast hits severed the wishbone.

I would love to hit every bird like this one.

 

[Seedy Character]

Most strikes were head and neck, with a couple tagging the leading edge of one side of breast. The breast hits severed the wishbone.

I would love to hit every bird like this one.

If only

 

[GooseGestapo]

When I quit waterfowling, Tungsten had become my go-to shot for geese.

Ducks fall easily to 1-18oz high velocity #2’s. Wood Ducks and Teal to #3’s from my 20ga guns.
When I retired, I was given a box of #4Bismuth. Shot 1rd patterning it. Still have the rest 19yrs later. (Saving it for my CZ S/S).

I had real good luck with #2 Tungsten on pass shooting geese the last time I shot such at Devil’s Lake, ND. If I’d known how easy the ducks and geese would be compared to Ga or Texas late season when they finally get here, I’d have taken my .410 w/#4 Bismuth and a tennis racket!
The ducks were landing on the blinds, and geese were lighting in the decoys!

Not what I was used to!!!

 

[brewer12345]

Once again no geese within range, but this stuff just crumples ducks.

 

[brewer12345]

Now that goose season is in the rearview mirror, I can say that #1 (hevi) and #2 (boss) bismuth whacks late season geese very well. Ducks absolutely crumple. I also noticed that the bismuth shot is much less likely to drag feathers into the meat compared to steel. So I think I am sold on bismuth for late season. I also have been learning some valuable lessons about the importance of pellet count, which is part of what is pushing me away from Steel shot in big pellet sizes. Early season from now on I will just use #2 steel for both geese and ducks. Late season I will switch to bismuth for both. I may also experiment with the Winchester Snow Goose shells in 3.5" flavor that are a mix of #1 and #2 steel shot to bump pellet count over what I would be seeing in a 3 inch #2 or any BB shell in steel.

 

[Weflyfast]

Boss shot shells are awesome- I use on Ducks and Pheasants - 12 20 and 28 gauge
....shot a few honkers with the 2s and 4s....and never had an issue-

 

[Savage30L]

I used to live in the Chesapeake Bay region and killed my share of geese. I've never liked steel shot and dropped it pretty quickly. I started using Bismuth and it was good. Then I bought a Benelli and started shooting Hevi-Shot, and woo-wee, that stuff works like magic on waterfowl. You can use lighter loads and downsize on shot...I killed plenty of geese with #5 or #6 Hevi-shot while duck hunting. (And try 7 1/2 Hevi on mallards!) Eventually I moved to Kent Impact Tungsten Matrix so I could use some of my older shotguns (of which I have plenty, too many really, but I have a soft spot for shotguns of yesteryear), and it works just as well as Hevi-shot.

Well, I moved back to central Kentucky, where it's really difficult to find a place to hunt waterfowl, so I haven't hunted geese in about 15 years....and I have boxes and boxes of Hevi and Kent all over the place here, just gathering dust. I wasn't aware that non-toxic shot had gotten so expensive.


(Close-range early season birds with Kent Fasteel, Dorchester County, MD, about 20 years ago)


Late-season birds with Kent Impact #3 Tungsten matrix, Harford County, MD, 2007