Ar 15 cons

[DeepSouth]

In the past I to have knocked the AR, I really prefer my AK for multiple reasons. Not all people are the same and generally we’re better of not knocking what another likes.

If you want to know what I really think, ask. Otherwise do/shoot what you like and I’ll do the same, no need for unwanted criticism. It generally doesn’t go over well.

 

[Bcwitt]

Thanks for the input. I never said I dont like them, just a few features I dislike. It is basically nessesary to own at least one of them in this country. The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

 

[redneck2]

I HATE going to ballet and going to the opera.....

Then don’t go to the ballet or opera.

Problem solved! Wasn’t that easy?

 

[trackskippy]

Thanks for the input. I never said I dont like them, just a few features I dislike. It is basically nessesary to own at least one of them in this country. The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

Not sure how you're working the AK that you don't use your weak hand to do most of the chores.

Not saying you run an AK like you do an AR, you don't, or shouldn't, but I do everything with either, with the gun in my right (strong) hand, and it doesn't ever leave the grip when I do. "Dexterity" has never been a problem either.

 

[Charlie98]

Anyone else find the fwd assist, mag catch, hold open, mag well & ****** GI magazines very annoying? I like the AR, not doubt. But they could have made a better magazine system, & the charging handle is probably the worst ever.

The AR is just a passing fad, anyway. Once the mall ninjas get tired of them, they will move on to the Next Best Thing, and the AR will fall into obscurity.

 

[Bcwitt]

Not sure how you're working the AK that you don't use your weak hand to do most of the chores.

Not saying you run an AK like you do an AR, you don't, or shouldn't, but I do everything with either, with the gun in my right (strong) hand, and it doesn't ever leave the grip when I do. "Dexterity" has never been a problem either.

Not sure how you're working the AK that you don't use your weak hand to do most of the chores.

Not saying you run an AK like you do an AR, you don't, or shouldn't, but I do everything with either, with the gun in my right (strong) hand, and it doesn't ever leave the grip when I do. "Dexterity" has never been a problem either.

The AK facilitates operation at user's discretion. There is no "right" way. Is far superior for a left hander (or a one hander, for that matter) where as the AR is quite clumsy left handed & almost notdoable one handed. An AR assumes right handed use. An AK dose not.

 

[mcb]

Thanks for the input. I never said I dont like them, just a few features I dislike. It is basically nessesary to own at least one of them in this country. The controls dictate using your weak hand to perform the operations that you want dexterity for. An AK is much faster.

Not sure I consider the slapping the bolt release or working the charging handle high-dexterity tasks for the weak hand. The ergonomics of the AR are pretty good and the manual of arms pretty straight forward. And reloading an AR only takes two hands unlike the three arms reload the AK requires.

The AR is just a passing fad, anyway. Once the mall ninjas get tired of them, they will move on to the Next Best Thing, and the AR will fall into obscurity.

Not sure if you're serious or not but I will laugh at your statement either way.

 

[Bcwitt]

Not sure I consider the slapping the bolt release or working the charging handle high-dexterity tasks for the weak hand. The ergonomics of the AR are pretty good and the manual of arms pretty straight forward. And reloading an AR only takes two hands unlike the three arms reload the AK requires.



Not sure if you're serious or not but I will laugh at your statement either way.

An AK is easily operated & used w a single hand.

 

[FL-NC]

I've never experienced any problems regarding the "deficiencies" the OP outlined. And I would much rather work with the AR charging handle than one that sticks out of one side or the other, probably reciprocating, and pulling the bolt out of battery when shooting to the side of cover. Like a SCAR.

 

[Bcwitt]

An AK is easily operated & used w a single hand.

The point is an AR requires 2 hands (as you have confirmed) where the AK allows much more flexibility in its use.

 

[trackskippy]

The AK facilitates operation at user's discretion. There is no "right" way. Is far superior for a left hander (or a one hander, for that matter) where as the AR is quite clumsy left handed & almost notdoable one handed. An AR assumes right handed use. An AK dose not.

I guess some of us just have more ambidextrous dexterity than others.

Ask the Russians about left handed AK use.

Ive never really found the AR to be a problem left handed, and all the controls are fairly easily accessed. The mag release could be an issue one handed, but, the AR's are quite adaptable, and a number of small add ons can address any problems with ambi use, should you feel the need.

The AK's selector isn't the easiest left handed, and one handed, would be its biggest problem. Charging the gun one handed wouldn't be as easy either.

 

[entropy]

The AK facilitates operation at user's discretion. There is no "right" way. Is far superior for a left hander (or a one hander, for that matter) where as the AR is quite clumsy left handed & almost notdoable one handed. An AR assumes right handed use. An AK dose not.

The same can be said for the AR. Indeed, if you follow the Soviet manual of arms, you are using both hands. And as awkward as the Soviet manual of arms for the AK may seem to us who were trained on the US manual of arms for the AR/M16, it is still the best method of operating one, and does require the use of both hands.

An AK is easily operated & used w a single hand.

Never seen a one-armed man use an AK, or an AR for that matter. Seems reloading would be hard to do, with having to hold the rifle between the legs. Perhaps you mean off of one shoulder or the other, and being an (mostly) ambidextrous shooter, I can personally attest that both rifles are a bit harder to work off the left than the right, but not insurmountable with practice.

 

[entropy]

The AK's selector isn't the easiest left handed, and one handed, would be its biggest problem. Charging the gun one handed wouldn't be as easy either.

Actually the motion for charging an AK off the left shoulder is easier than off the right, but when, excited, shall we say, it is easy to slip off the charging handle and pop yourself in the nose. Don't ask how I know this....

 

[Oldschool shooter]

I'm not a huge fan of the AR, but I own one. I'm more of a blue steel and walnut guy. That said, I shoot my AR, have no complaints with any of the features or their locations. Even with my smallish hands, the ergonomics are about as user friendly as can be.

 

[12Bravo20]

The AK facilitates operation at user's discretion. There is no "right" way. Is far superior for a left hander (or a one hander, for that matter) where as the AR is quite clumsy left handed & almost notdoable one handed. An AR assumes right handed use. An AK dose not.

I used both the M16A1 and M16A2 without any issues as a left handed shooter during my military career. I have also used both in combat, again without issues. I have owned a semi auto AK and have fired plenty of full auto AK 47 and 74 rifles while in the Army. The ergonomics of the AK platform is far from being the best.

To the OP,

It boils down to one single thing...... buy what you want to shoot and what works best for you. There is no need to bash what others like.

And I can tell you that there are plenty of people even on this forum that have used the M16 in combat and came home afterwards.

 

[jmorris]

It boils down to one single thing...... buy what you want to shoot and what works best for you. There is no need to bash what others like.

Now you are showing your age. These days, if you don’t like something, no one should.

It’s not about what you like but what you hate.

 

[trackskippy]

Actually the motion for charging an AK off the left shoulder is easier than off the right, but when, excited, shall we say, it is easy to slip off the charging handle and pop yourself in the nose. Don't ask how I know this....

LOL. Fat lip too?

Charging it left handed isn't an issue at all, unless you're trying to do it one handed. The easiest way there would probably be to put the butt on the ground and use your foot.

 

[mcb]

An AK is easily operated & used w a single hand.

Not sure operating either weapon with one arm would be easy but I am not seeing either having an advantage one handed either. There are lots of video out there of people showing you how to operate either weapon one handed. And even if we accept the assumption that the AK is easier one handed than an AR I would still choose the AR ergonomics over the AK ergonomics.

I can reload a revolver faster than most can reload an AK.

 

[Tommygunn]

The only thing I dislike about the AR is the mil spec cocking actuator. But after markets like Radian Raptor and BCM gunfighter make a 100000000% improvement.

Problem solved!

 

[12Bravo20]

Now you are showing your age. These days, if you don’t like something, no one should.

It’s not about what you like but what you hate.

And I'll show my age some more.

I am young enough to be issued BDU's at boot camp but we were still using the M16A1 and we still did PT in our BDU's and boots. The only time we got to wear the banana suit during PT was when we did a battalion or brigade run. When the grey PT uniforms came out, I had to buy mine. I went OSUT at Ft Leonardwood for 12B.

 

[Bcwitt]

I used both the M16A1 and M16A2 without any issues as a left handed shooter during my military career. I have also used both in combat, again without issues. I have owned a semi auto AK and have fired plenty of full auto AK 47 and 74 rifles while in the Army. The ergonomics of the AK platform is far from being the best.

To the OP,

It boils down to one single thing...... buy what you want to shoot and what works best for you. There is no need to bash what others like.

And I can tell you that there are plenty of people even on this forum that have used the M16 in combat and came home afterwards.

I did not mean to bash, sir. I was hoping to have discussion w like minds. I did acknowledge I liked the AR, the point of the post was to discuss a few points about it. I strongly feel that it has room for improvement, I gather some folks do not. No one had difficulty using the M14, absent these features I mentioned. I was hoping to start intelligent conversation on the topic of a more ideal design. I would love to draw on your experience via conterpoint. I would love to see a southpaw AR drill that dosent twist up ones body or fingers, or an AR user drill w one arm out of action.

 

[Bcwitt]

Not sure operating either weapon with one arm would be easy but I am not seeing either having an advantage one handed either. There are lots of video out there of people showing you how to operate either weapon one handed. And even if we accept the assumption that the AK is easier one handed than an AR I would still choose the AR ergonomics over the AK ergonomics.

I can reload a revolver faster than most can reload an AK.

I will accept that challenge.

 

[12Bravo20]

Manipulating the M16 controls is fairly easy for me being left handed. I use my trigger finger or thumb to move the safety selector and my trigger finger to actuate the bolt catch to release the bolt. Or I can reach around with my right hand to release the bolt after inserting a new magazine. It depends on the situation and shooting position. I use my right hand to charge the rifle and also for magazine changes. The only time I have really needed an ambidextrous charging handle is when I have certain scopes mounted that make it harder to reach across with my right hand to pull the charging handle back. The standard M16/AR15 is really not that unfriendly to us left handed shooters. The ambidextrous controls are not really needed, though an ambi safety and ambi charging handle are nice to have.

The only time I had any type of issues was with the M16A1 and it had absolutely nothing to do with the controls or function of the rifle. My problem was getting hot brass in the crook of my elbow or hitting my neck and rolling down into my shirt. This was due to the A1 not having a built in brass deflector. And this effected most if not all left handed shooters. We just learned to roll our sleeves down and button the top button of our BDU top to help.

 

[mcb]

I will accept that challenge.

This is myself doing dry fire practice before a USPSA match. The revolver in question is S&W 627 being fed 38 Special on moonclips. From the first beep to the second beep on the timer is 3.6 seconds. Using a random-delay start on the timer I will draw at the first signal, double tap a spot on the wall, execute a reload, and double tap the same spot on the wall again. The reload in this sequence is just a hair over 2 seconds (using a video editor and the sound track), click to click. There are others out their faster than me...

Your turn, lets see your sub 2-second AK reload.

 

[Archie]

I am not a fan of the AR for a number of reasons. Having so said;

The forward assist is to get the bolt fully closed with the cartridge ready to fire. One notes all other rifles have do-dads directly connected to the bolt - charging handles in the case of the M1 Garand and M14 rifles, AKs and all bolt action rifles. The original configuration of the AR had nothing. If the bolt didn't close for whatever reason - and they didn't - one was stuck. One did learn to slam the butt on the ground with the muzzle 'that way' and not impinging on the face, but that's about it.

The charging handle is located in the most effective place, both for operating the bolt and manufacture.

My largest criticism is the tiny round and the self-dirtying gas system. Plus they're too short for a spear and too flimsy for a club.