AR-15 or Shotgun...

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A couple of posters opined the way I was thinking before I even saw their posts. I'd consider getting one or two AR-types, and one or two Ruger 10/22 rifles. I'd use the Rugers for "orientation" first. Anyone who does okay with it but cannot with the AR gets "issued" the Ruger instead, should they be inclined to take it.
 
it's one of those situations where you *have* to help whether you like it or not.

This is the same mindset of those who attempt to disarm us.

We as Americans have the right to not be helped, regardless of the intent of those who "think" they know better. The information is all around us, if someone refuses to consider the potential risks and becomes a zombie/victim when circumstances arise, they truly have only themselves to blame. Goes to vacationing blonde girls in South America who disappear off the beach - or who take up a relationship with a foreigner, emigrate, and then post their difficulties when trapped in a MidEastern country.

Harsh as it sounds, they made their choice.

I don't want it known in my family that I have an arsenal of firearms to hand out in bad circumstances. At that point they will organize, beat down the door, and take them, the food, etc. The concept that they are helpless and that someone is going to "shelter" them as if they will be compliant, grateful loved ones who owe their lives to the far thinking prepper is a recipe for disaster. Not hardly - when rioting etc does break out they are the ones looting, running amok, and thinking it's every man for themself. They commit theft and property destruction in the "right" thinking perspective they are "justified" because they have to "protect" their family.

Which locations were the first looted in NOLA after Katrina? Liquor stores, grocery stores, pharmacies, and gun shops. Instead of buying more guns to loan to the fifth columnists you let into the door who are waiting to be embraced with open arms ( and who are just as likely to clean you out) I would put the money into better physical security of your location, building, and practices. There is a reasons why so many citizens in third world countries who are above the poverty line spend their money on building walls, gates, and storing firearms for themselves - and they pretty much don't advertise what they have. Too many revolutions and wars have taught them better.

We don't have that background, aside from our inner cities security is an afterthought and our family isn't considered problematic in extreme times. Yet, they can be if we but just study our one major insurrection - the Civil War. I don't think the next will be any better about divisions inside family ties - and I don't intend to arm the enemy. You simply don't know who will sell you out if they are rewarded with a bowl of soup that day in their shelter.

Listen more closely when the holidays roll around. Put the money on hardening your home rather than arming people who could very well turn your guns on you. Cynical? No, just not in denial. It's from a perspective that humans don't usually make the best decisions and why we need to look to a higher power for rules to govern our life - not to others and the community hive mind.

If taking care of each other worked out to the best for everyone then our coastal cities would be shining examples of that kind of community action, right? And that is where they attempt to ban the ownership of AR's, too.

On that topic AR's are the better choice, shotguns aren't versatile enough to reach out 250 meters with iron sights. And iron sights are all you should put on them as batteries don't age well nor do red dots/lasers. The AR is pretty much classic but can anyone find a red dot so jelled in design it's considered a staple item? Nope, they are largely out of date within a few years. None have unbreakable glass. They don't suffer rough handling like being thrown in a truck bed nor do the suffer tinkering by untrained operators who think they know better. It's proven that you can teach people all they need to know but they can and will break things - and there is another cycle going thru Basic every week. Employ a lot of KISS in your weapons you intend to hand out arming others who have no clue what they are doing.
 
FWIW, I wouldn't feel bad about either. Grab what's available.
However much I'd be fine with an AR, even the cheap ones are the same price as two base-level shotguns.
I opted for a Maverick loaded up with reduced-recoil 00 shot for a while.
 
FWIW, I wouldn't feel bad about either. Grab what's available.
However much I'd be fine with an AR, even the cheap ones are the same price as two base-level shotguns.
I opted for a Maverick loaded up with reduced-recoil 00 shot for a while.

Thanks Deus. I am definitely trying to keep this gun related and specific to the original question, thanks for that. As for the other topics covered, thanks but I was just asking for opinions on those two platforms. Emergency plans are as unique as the families that make them (learned that from one of the Red Cross Director's in their disaster division who'd been in the RC for 20 years and deployed to over 70 disasters worldwide over that time, so I get most of my "other" emergency advice from him and his folks) ;)

THR is my 'go to' place for gun-related questions. Thanks all.

EDIT: It was "70" not "370" not sure where that extra "3" came from.
 
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Well it depends... Are you primarily talking for home defense or are you talking of moving from location to location with possibly multiple assailants? If you are talking in and around the house I would tell you to go for the shotgun. For one with a shotgun they are about the most easy thing to teach someone to shoot...all you have to do is point and pull the trigger and at ranges you would be talking for around a house it is going to be more effective than a .223 AR-15. If you are talking shoot and scoot over a larger area I would tell you to go with the AR-15 as they can provide suppression fire and are more accurate at long distances than a shotgun. You will hear people tell you an AR-15 for any place but if you are in a home setting than you risk over penetration and might hit one of your other family members. Shotguns pack more of a punch at closer ranges than an AR-15 does. Thats just my two cents.

Yea, that's the issue with emergency preparedness stuff. Prepare for a tornado and the power goes out or something else. This is an "all around" question. I totally get that it depends, I'm just trying to figure out what would be "good enough" for 'option a', 'option b', 'option c'.... because the truth of the matter is, no one really knows what scenario one might face should things go sideways...
 
I’m not sure I would buy anything. There should be a spare something or another laying around here.

Are you just looking for a plausible excuse for the wife for a trip to the gun show?

Dangit! I hate it when people see right through me!! :rofl:
It IS getting close to the shopping season... maybe I should get something I really wanted and make myself a promise to hand it off should the wolves come knocking.
 
Get yourself the gun that you have been wanting,and stock up on ammo.
Folks without training can not get your back. Period.
Unless you guys train, yes train together you never will be instinctively able to work together as a unit toward any objective,or threat.
I will do what I can in any thing that presents as a problem, I may or may not make the best decision but I will react and do my best.
Buy more bullets and keep all of the loaded magazines you can carry and still walk, or crawl. I ain't able to run anymore, and wasn't smart enough to when I was able, nor would I be able to fight my way out of a paper sack anymore.
I love my womenfolk and would die if it would save their lives but I will have to say they had the opportunity to shoot with my help and refused many times to even plink with a 22. I would'nt think it a good idea for them to be holding a loaded gun behind me in a SHTF moment. Sorry to say these things but the truth is what it is.
Best wishes,good luck
 
Both... I've found lightly used Mossberg 500's for under $200. Throw in a box or 2 of 100 target shells, some turkey loads, buck shot, and slugs and you've got many more options available to you for less than the cost of one AR-15.
 
This is the same mindset of those who attempt to disarm us...I don't intend to arm the enemy. You simply don't know who will sell you out if they are rewarded with a bowl of soup that day in their shelter...

SigSour is talking about helping close family, not a bunch of strangers.

...iron sights are all you should put on them as batteries don't age well nor do red dots/lasers. The AR is pretty much classic but can anyone find a red dot so jelled in design it's considered a staple item? Nope, they are largely out of date within a few years. None have unbreakable glass. They don't suffer rough handling like being thrown in a truck bed nor do the suffer tinkering by untrained operators who think they know better. It's proven that you can teach people all they need to know but they can and will break things - and there is another cycle going thru Basic every week. Employ a lot of KISS in your weapons you intend to hand out arming others who have no clue what they are doing.

While I don't disagree about the iron sights in this scenario, there is a red dot that's considered a staple item. The Aimpoint. It's not indestructible, but it will take a lot of punishment and battery life is measured in years. It's also easier and faster to get a neophyte shooting on target. Iron sight are not indestructible, nor are they immune to unauthorized tinkering. But iron sights are more economical than an Aimpoint.

Choosing between a shotgun and AR for defense is really a no-brainer. The advantages of an AR over a shotgun are-
-Less recoil
-Easier to reload
-Simpler to teach manual of arms
-Holds more ammo
-Faster follow up shots
-Better terminal performance
-More precise
-Less over penetration
-Shorter
-Easier to fit to people of smaller stature
-Easier to fit with slings, optics and lights

Advantages of a shotgun for self defense over an AR-
-Less muzzle blast

I don't think either one has an advantage in cost. A good shotgun costs just as much as a good AR and a cheap AR cost almost as little as a cheap shotgun. In any case, I wouldn't be assigning a cheap shotgun to any lifesaving duties
 
Spend the money on a better generator, more fuel storage, more water & food storage, better first aid kits, and training.

I really think this is the best route before worrying about arming extended family.

But if I had to choose between an AR and a shotgun, the AR easily wins. But if I could choose anything, I think a 10/22 or Model 60 with red-dots would be better served in someones hands that doesn't regularly shoot. There's zero recoil and the noise level won't make your ears ring without protection. It's easily a 100 yard gun with new shooters against man-sized targets, and subsonics won't attract unwanted attention for practicing or small game hunting.
 
AR15, if they are willing to learn how to use it safely/properly. For people that know zero about guns and have no training/wont practice, a break open 20ga shotty works wonders. It all comes down to what THEY are comfortable with.
 
AR15, if they are willing to learn how to use it safely/properly. For people that know zero about guns and have no training/wont practice, a break open 20ga shotty works wonders. It all comes down to what THEY are comfortable with.

Thank you! I worked my way through this thread to post the same. You can give a complete lesson on use of a $100 used H&R style single shot in 30 seconds.
 
A lot of new shooters given a shotgun will pull the trigger once, and hand it back to you with, "I'm done" comments. Most new shooters given and AR will shoot it once and say, "That's not so bad!" Ready adaptation to a firearm and proficiency is important in being used effectively.
Only hits count. Having a prep firearm that is conceptually pointed in the direction of a threat is not enough. Portability, accuracy, and functional reliability are all part of the choice system. Collapsible stocks, red dots and features like that put the shooter on the gun much easier that a long length of pull shotgun or a 9lb milsurp.
Holstered handguns round out the equipment of a prepper situation for domestic chores, or when you need two hands. I really wouldn't choose between a handgun and an AR, BOTH should be available. My two cents.
 
I'm going to go against the grain a little. Please don't purchase firearms based **primarily** on the idea that someone else would use it / like it. Make sure that you like/use/maintain whatever you purchase, otherwise it will just sit in the proverbial corner.
So, if the only choices are between an undefined shotgun and an inexpensive AR; and factoring an inexperienced user (because everyone knows there is a learning curve when trying to shoot someone else's firearm), I can see where many would choose the inexpensive AR over the shotgun. Recoil, ease of use, ammo cost, capacity, and common mags, etc. I get it.

BUT, I think that everyone should remember that a real emergency situation is not like the walking dead. Water, food, generator, gasoline, tarps, plywood, and 2x4's are all more valuable than an **extra** firearm. During Katrina, what was the most valuable firearm? A handgun. Why? IMHO, 1)It's less about the capable distance and more about personal protection from harm against looters and those who wish to do harm to others. 2) Concealment. Anybody who walks down the street, holding an AR or shotgun is going to get asked some questions by the reservists or whatever mil/leo presence. Any person holding a longgun in a populated area is conspicuous. A person has to set a long gun down to help anyone, whether that is cleaning up, boarding up windows, searching through rubble, helping someone put a tarp on their roof, etc. The most likely situation is a natural disaster, not a war zone. It's about protecting people and property from a defensive perspective, not survival in a dystopian Thunderdome.

So, my first choice would be a couple of full size or compact handguns in a common caliber, with some extra mags, ammo, and don't forget about a good holster for each.
Second choice would be to purchase an upgraded AR that I like and keep a previously owned one as a spare. Iron sights or 1-4x scope - no optic with batteries.
Third choice would be whatever inexpensive shotgun a person can find.
 
For family members who don't shoot and aren't willing to currently learn and train, and whom you would simply hand them the gun in the event of an emergency to operate and maintain in a new and stressful environment? Between the two choices, I would go with the shotgun with reduced 12 gauge loads or maybe 20 gauge. In that specific scenario, I would not want to get bogged down with teaching someone about loading a detached magazine, using adequate lube, adjusting the LOP, distinguishing between bolt release and safety and magazine release, field stripping, and optics.
 
I gotta think your family would have a "come to Jesus" moment if they made it to your house after it all went sideways. At that point you should be able to show them how to use the guns and get on with it. Is this optimal? No, but it sounds like it may be the best you will get out of them. With that in mind I'd go with the AR.
 
A 9mm handgun would be my 1st choice and an AR would win every time over a shotgun. A good argument can be made for a 22 such as a Ruger 10-22 and under certain circumstances I'd take one over even an AR.
 
A couple of 12ga's for general purpose and the rest AR's for simplicity and ammo availability is how I'd go.

I've seen people that aren't firearm savvy (training) mess up with pump shotty's because they short-chuck the pump and/or they just can't get the rhythm of rack-shoot-rack-shoot. Also some shy away after the first boom and shove into their shoulder.

An AR is pretty simple to work through easy but people still need to learn the manual of arms. The kick isn't a shock to weaker folks when using them.

This isn't one of the options asked about but, I've seen folks of all ages take to working lever action rifles like they'd used them all their lives. Perhaps a consideration for some of the folks in the OP. Ammo is plentiful as well in both pistol and rifle calibers.

jmo.
 
I still think they would be better off loading magazines for you.
So get a case of 223 about 1k will do. They can scurry up and pick them drop as you drop one. Without training or some practice/trying to learn a Lady Smith or hammerless Ruger 357 magnum/38 special.
Thats about all these ladies I love and hold dear need. I sure would like to take that back and will gladly if these of mine would make just a little effort.
I just can't allow myself to feel differently. We will fare better if we know there will be no time outs to allow them to learn. It will happen suddenly without prior warning if you guys do not train and gell as a unit then maybe they will be able to reload,maybe.
 
To all of those suggesting emergency supplies instead of an AR or shotgun- SigSour stated they already have that stuff.

I have neophyte shooters in the family I am teaching to shoot. I am NOT teaching them how to a shotgun. Why? It's easier to teach them how to load and shoot the AR. Nobody, but nobody wants anything to do with the shotgun.
 
My attitude is somewhat different than the majority of THR members. I consider my weapon, whether it is a handgun, rifle or shotgun as part of my weapons system. The firearm is only ¼ to 1/3 of the overall system.

With the AR-15 the gun is only ¼ of the weapons system. The next ¼ is the sights. The next ¼ is magazines and the last ¼ is ammunition. I believe in at least 10 magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition for each of my self-defense guns. So my primary AR has Magpul BUIS, 10 30 round magazines and 1,100 rounds of ammunition.

This past weekend I finished building my 2nd AR-15 using a kit from PSA. I spent $430.00 on the complete build. I now need to get 10 30 round magazines and 1,000 rounds of ammunition to complete what I consider necessary for the self-defense system for it. Mags and ammo is going to cost about $450.00 +/- depending on deals I find so I am going to spend as much as I did for the gun.

For storage of all this I love USGI metal ammunition cans. 30 and 50 caliber cans work real well with .223 ammunition and AR magazines. 10 loaded 30 round magazines can be stacked in 50 caliber ammo can with enough room left over for 9 20 round boxes of ammunition for 480 rounds. 460 rounds in 20 round boxes will fit in a 30 caliber can. So 30 and 50 caliber ammo cans solves any storage problems and are easy to grab and go.

With a shotgun the system is much simpler and less costly. With the shotgun I don’t worry a lot about actual round count. I buy shotshells by the case so the number on hand varies. With a shotgun all is really needed is shotshells and a way to carry them. And carrying shotshells places a big limitation on moving with a shotgun. The most common way shotshells are carried are by bird hunters in the field. I usually divide a 25 round box between pockets. However 25 rounds isn’t likely to go far in a real life crisis and finding garments with large enough pockets to stuff them full of shotshells is likely to be a problem.

So on a budget the shotgun is easiest and least expensive way to go especially when arming a group of people. However given the limitations of the shotgun the AR-15 better fills the needs in most self-defense situations.
 
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